StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

You are acting more restrained than you usually do as town. Restraint is a scum tell for pizza

Right about here....

I love disproving bad theories, screw the game. I like being right.

[naut]

Why aren't you voting for one of them, Chaotix? I mean, a FOS is all well and good, but when it comes down to it it's just a toothless abbreviation.

He seems quietly restive. I say we lynch him.

[seireikhaan]

Once more, my general hath shown me the direction.

Vote: Beskar

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's possible that pizza is just a townie annoyed at being asked to lynch himself or just "loves disproving bad theories" as he says. But the odds of him having an important mafia role and disliking a sasaki wagon starter is high enough to worth lynching on.

He could be a pro town role

But you can't worry about that kind of thing in these situations, and it seems like there are hardly any of them, with beskar being one, and the guy who contacted him (presumably not pizza given what he said) being another, that cuts down on the odds a lot.

[Winston Hughes]

screw the game. I like being right.

Should we put it to the test, then?

vote: Askthepizzaguy

[Renata]

Two more of whatever-it-was this morning, just saying. Not that it's stopping me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

He could be a pro town role

No. This is a dreadful waste of a round, but you won't cripple yourselves.

I can also explain this bandwagon on me: It is a direct backlash for the Shadow Fort game. Whatever makes you feel better, guys.

[Renata]

You'd like it to be that simple, but despite that I have made a conscious decision to ditch my CFC induced habits of not voting for high-profile players on mere suspicion, there truly is something off about your interaction with Sasaki.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You'd like it to be that simple, but despite that I have made a conscious decision to ditch my CFC induced habits of not voting for high-profile players on mere suspicion, there truly is something off about your interaction with Sasaki.

No, it is that simple. You can't even explain what is "off". But I can tell I won't be changing your mind today, it is made up and based on absolutely nothing.

But, if you guys think I will go down quietly, I promise I both will not shut up until I am dead or the wagon goes away, and that I'll be intentionally distracting all round so nothing else gets done.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Obviously I decided to take a look at you largely because you evaded detection in the shadow fort...I said as much earlier, so don't try and pass that off as a dismissal of the whole wagon. The question is, why does your response to praise look like this?

It's obvious that you don't truly believe what you said about "sasaki proposing this to get me lynched", that looks more like a hastily constructed rebuttal. And when pushed on it you tried to joke your way out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Obviously I decided to take a look at you largely because you evaded detection in the shadow fort...I said as much earlier, so don't try and pass that off as a dismissal of the whole wagon. The question is, why does your response to praise look like this?

No I am looking at Renata mostly for that.

I don't mind the "praise" if you can call it that, I mind being lynched when I am innocent.

It's obvious that you don't truly believe what you said about "sasaki proposing this to get me lynched", that looks more like a hastily constructed rebuttal. And when pushed on it you tried to joke your way out.

Yes, yes I do truly believe that. You are one who easily deceives, and the innocent-sounding "would you lynch yourself, pizza?" is exactly the kind of tactic I expect from you. And the best part is, no one will call you on it because it sounds absolutely like typical Sasaki behavior. I'll call you on it, but I'll get ignored because I'm the scummy one here.

That said, I can step outside myself and see I'm not winning anyone's favor with my current chosen form of resistance. But I refuse to beg, I'd prefer to pester.

[Winston Hughes]

I mind being lynched when I am innocent.

As I recall, you're not that keen on being lynched when you're guilty, either.

[Renata]

No, it is that simple. You can't even explain what is "off". But I can tell I won't be changing your mind today, it is made up and based on absolutely nothing.

But, if you guys think I will go down quietly, I promise I both will not shut up until I am dead or the wagon goes away, and that I'll be intentionally distracting all round so nothing else gets done.

It's exactly what Chaotix said. It looks like a set-up for something. Sasaki's question was out of the blue and weird, and your responses were unexpectedly self-conscious. I don't have to be able to put it in words to be right that something is wrong there.

And you're going to punish townies for suspecting you? How productive is that?

By the way who told you what Beskar's role was prior to his public reveal?

[Csargo]

It's possible that pizza is just a townie annoyed at being asked to lynch himself or just "loves disproving bad theories" as he says. But the odds of him having an important mafia role and disliking a sasaki wagon starter is high enough to worth lynching on.

He could be a pro town role

But you can't worry about that kind of thing in these situations, and it seems like there are hardly any of them, with beskar being one, and the guy who contacted him (presumably not pizza given what he said) being another, that cuts down on the odds a lot.

So, basically you've got nothing from all of that?

[Renata]

(And just as an aside about Shadow Fort, ATPG, you know and I know that I'm still irritated with how you played me in that game. And you know and I know that I promised you ahead of time, before this game ever started, that I would give you much less rope in the future. But if you want to extend that to my behavior in who I choose to vote for, you're doing me a dis-service. I hope you know that and this is deliberate misdirection.)

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's exactly what Chaotix said. It looks like a set-up for something. Sasaki's question was out of the blue and weird, and your responses were unexpectedly self-conscious. I don't have to be able to put it in words to be right that something is wrong there.

It's a patently ridiculous theory, and beneath you as a player.

I would not play public games with Sasaki, this early, on a round where people are desperate to lynch anything that moves. It's a stupid tactic.

I agree that sasaki's question is out of the blue and weird. That's why it's scummy. My response is precisely what you'd expect here.... I'm going to lynch anything that moves. Turns out I moved in the process.

And you're going to punish townies for suspecting you? How productive is that?

If I manage to persuade you against lynching me, it's EXTREMELY productive.

By the way who told you what Beskar's role was prior to his public reveal?

I won't reveal that to you. Beskar knows where his leak is.

[autolycus]

I don't think Sasaki's logic holds with respect to Atpg being bad, but I don't think it's scummy behavior on his part. I was considering this vote yesterday, and with no new leads will return to it. vote:white_eyes.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So, basically you've got nothing from all of that?

No...in the post you quoted I explored the possibilities and concluded that it was a good idea to lynch him.

[Renata]

It's a patently ridiculous theory, and beneath you as a player.

I would not play public games with Sasaki, this early, on a round where people are desperate to lynch anything that moves. It's a stupid tactic.

You yourself were the one who brought up the possibility of infinitely-regenerating recruitment for the Sith -- one dies, another is recruited in his place. If you and Sasaki were both mafia in such a situation, then why *not* such a crazy gambit? You know you're going to get investigated, how do you stop it? Mutual bussing, the survivor gets townie cred and a less high-profile new recruit.

I'm sorry you find it ridiculous, but there is a potential motive there, by your own theory. And you're both striking me as somewhat artificial.

I agree that sasaki's question is out of the blue and weird. That's why it's scummy. My response is precisely what you'd expect here.... I'm going to lynch anything that moves. Turns out I moved in the process.



If I manage to persuade you against lynching me, it's EXTREMELY productive.



I won't reveal that to you. Beskar knows where his leak is.[/QUOTE]

[Askthepizzaguy]

You yourself were the one who brought up the possibility of infinitely-regenerating recruitment for the Sith -- one dies, another is recruited in his place. If you and Sasaki were both mafia in such a situation, then why *not* such a crazy gambit? You know you're going to get investigated, how do you stop it? Mutual bussing, the survivor gets townie cred and a less high-profile new recruit.

I'm sorry you find it ridiculous, but there is a potential motive there, by your own theory. And you're both striking me as somewhat artificial.

There's no such thing as townie cred in a game where you can turn to the darkside. And making a spectacle of myself guarantees I get lynched or scanned. That doesn't help matters at all because as a lynchee I can't influence the vote after I get lynched in disgrace and my supposed master would have to waste time replacing me. I see what you're saying Renata, there is a tiny bit of logic to such a silly plan, but it is weighed against the enormity of reality, which is the sheer futility of the move. The positive, if any, doesn't outweigh all the negatives.

I rather think you are rationalizing your move after you make it. You can construct a theory which matches my behavior, but you've done it after the fact, and the theory doesn't hold water either.

[Chaotix]

I would rather let the two of them live a little longer so we can get a better sense of whether this is just them both having off days, or if they are really scummy. But then again, I am far too cautious in these games in general. My overdefensiveness and reluctance to jump the gun has led to my defeat on both sides before.

So I'll let you guys decide what to do with them. But right now my vote goes toward a pseudo-random lynch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

How do you know I'm having an off day? What if Sasaki is scum?

You're giving Sasaki a total pass here.

[Chaotix]

I'm not giving either of you a pass. Perhaps you may think so because most of the votes are on you and not him, but I have expressed general suspicion towards the two of you.

Sasaki should be bandwagoning right now, and certainly not trying to get you lynched. By the same token, you would never try to get Sasaki lynched with such conviction this early in the game. Just last game, in Mafia IX, you two were buddy-buddy till the end when we (the mafia) tried to split you apart with the kills and the WIFOM. You even went off on about how players shouldn't lynch either one of you "because you're suspicious".

But the thing is, both of you were grasping at straws just now due to the nature of your accusations. It seems to me that this started off as an argument you agreed to start, because it was totally tangential to the discussion at hand- then you both realized it was conspicuous.

You may go on about how it's "bad mafia strategy" to do that, but it's just WIFOM. The mafia are constantly trying to out-anticipate the town. They will do things that are expected of mafia because the town does not expect that they will do things that are expected, etc, etc.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sasaki should be bandwagoning right now, and certainly not trying to get you lynched. By the same token, you would never try to get Sasaki lynched with such conviction this early in the game.

If I think he's guilty I'll try to get him lynched wherever and whenever I choose. I don't hound Sasaki every game, but neither do I give him a pass when he does something which triggers my "what the flip?" meter.

I'll certainly try to fight my way out of this lynch, but I don't expect special treatment and if you have nothing better than me, so be it. Beats being scanned/blocked/recruited every game.

[TinCow]

Interesting conversation. I don't see why people think Sasaki is scummy for this. He probed ATPG because ATPG voted with no explanation. ATPG drew the attention with his own actions, and Sasaki's questions have followed logically since then. There's nothing off about Sasaki here. I cannot say the same for ATPG. That said, I'm not quite ready to vote for him. I do have a question of my own though: Why did you originally vote for GH, ATPG? You never did explain that. It's not like you to vote without either an argument or a joke.

[Chaotix]

Sasaki is not going to be lynched today, because the town does not want him dead. You, however, will come very close to being lynched, if you survive at all.

So, here's my proposal, ATPG. You all caught me last game protesting a random lynch. This time around, I see none of that. All of a sudden someone whispers "investigator" and that idea goes out the window. Well, the only investigator I see is Beskar- and nobody feels they can trust him anyway. So why not bring out that random lynch that was so successful last time?

Neither of you are a good lynch before we have more information.

ATPG, you agree to support a lynch that I decide on via random.org, before I say who it is, and I will defend you for the round. And we turn this random lynch into a massive bandwagon. What do you say?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Interesting conversation. I don't see why people think Sasaki is scummy for this. He probed ATPG because ATPG voted with no explanation. ATPG drew the attention with his own actions, and Sasaki's questions have followed logically since then. There's nothing off about Sasaki here. I cannot say the same for ATPG. That said, I'm not quite ready to vote for him. I do have a question of my own though: Why did you originally vote for GH, ATPG? You never did explain that. It's not like you to vote without either an argument or a joke.

He's trying to waste the lynch on Beskar. I thought given the context it was really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sasaki is not going to be lynched today, because the town does not want him dead. You, however, will come very close to being lynched, if you survive at all.

So, here's my proposal, ATPG. You all caught me last game protesting a random lynch. This time around, I see none of that. All of a sudden someone whispers "investigator" and that idea goes out the window. Well, the only investigator I see is Beskar- and nobody feels they can trust him anyway. So why not bring out that random lynch that was so successful last time?

Neither of you are a good lynch before we have more information.

ATPG, you agree to support a lynch that I decide on via random.org, before I say who it is, and I will defend you for the round. And we turn this random lynch into a massive bandwagon. What do you say?

No deal.

If I wanted to save my skin, I'd follow along. I'm not concerned with bargaining my way out of this. My vote stays where it is.

[GeneralHankerchief]

He's trying to waste the lynch on Beskar. I thought given the context it was really obvious, and didn't warrant further comment.

Waste the lynch, says you. How can you be sure? says I.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now you're just repeating yourself.


Might as well delete this one too, GH, because now it makes no sense.