StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]

[Renata]

I checked and Niklas' promotion was reported at the start of round 3.

[Secura]

Secura just had a death wish.

Mainly because I couldn't be bothered playing after Beskar died.

[Niklas]

I checked and Niklas' promotion was reported at the start of round 3.

Aye, that's when it became safe to claim I had an ability.

[Renata]

Well, now the *Rule of Two* is going to come into play....ATPG, do you think you well be recruited?(be honest)


I am hoping that my theory about this is wrong....or we might be in more trouble then I care to be in.....

You are so scummy, white_eyes.

[Renata]

Aye, that's when it became safe to claim I had an ability.

The WIFOM is killing me.

That aside, having thought about it I'm pretty sure that Palpatine was NOT a Sith. Niklas wasn't the top dog. But he *is* a force ghost. Would a plain old recruited padawan get that privilege? I'm guessing he wouldn't. That makes Niklas an original Sith and the master an original Sith, which means Yaseikhaan could not have been unless there were more than two at the beginning of the game. In other words, I'm thinking that what might be revealing about the Yaseikhaan lynch is not the votes themselves (at least not more than any other votes in the game), but rather the reactions to his role reveal.

[Niklas]

But he *is* a force ghost. Would a plain old recruited padawan get that privilege? I'm guessing he wouldn't.

No, you're right. I got that ability from Yoda.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ibn-Khaldun was brave when issuing his challenge, I'll give him that. Secura just had a death wish. Psychonaut was just silly, but I think you take the prize.

So, it was you! Well, I challenge you again .. in a galaxy far, far away..

[Niklas]

So, it was you! Well, I challenge you again .. in a galaxy far, far away..

Well, not literally me, I left it to my henchmen. But what's really funny is that we had already sent the order to kill you before you challenged us.

[Diamondeye]

I've stopped listening to Niklas. I suggest everyone follows that example because he's really enjoying himself from what I can tell.

A cookie says that Niklas will actively quote this statement and agree with it.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, not literally me, I left it to my henchmen. But what's really funny is that we had already sent the order to kill you before you challenged us.

Btw, who might that be?

[Niklas]

I've stopped listening to Niklas. I suggest everyone follows that example because he's really enjoying himself from what I can tell.

A cookie says that Niklas will actively quote this statement and agree with it.

Btw, who might that be?

Diamondeye.

[Renata]

I've stopped listening to Niklas. I suggest everyone follows that example because he's really enjoying himself from what I can tell.

A cookie says that Niklas will actively quote this statement and agree with it.

You're scummy, too.

Edit:

[White_eyes:D]

You are so scummy, white_eyes.

I hate to disappoint

Now I must tease ATPG more about him being possibly recruited...(After Shadow Fort, I deserve it)

It might go something like this....

[TinCow]

Ok, here's my review of the previous times Niklas was under pressure. The first time any serious attempt was made to lynch him began just prior to Day 5, with this post (which was influenced by my knowledge of the QT thread). Prior to that post, Niklas was subject to some FOSing and a few scattered votes early on, but nothing that appeared to be significant enough to draw any scum-buddies to his defense.

As a result of that case, Diamondeye lodges a random FOS of me, without explanation. The following Day 5 phase was focused mainly on Chaotix/ATPG and so no serious pressure was put on Niklas for a good while. However, after Chaotix revealed, a large number of votes shifted suddenly to Niklas, including Psychonaut and ATPG (which is points in their favor). In the middle of the bandwagon, autolycus lodges a vote on 'khaan with a scummy bet-hedging comment about Niklas. Diamondeye, our previous scummy FOSer, also votes for Niklas without a bet-hedging statement, but it is a bit late on the bandwagon so it could still have been a scum trying to hide in what looked like a solid lynch of his partner. ATPG chooses that moment to try and start a big discussion which will focus votes on a lot of different players. His reasons are decent, but that's not hard to do in a mafia game and the fact remains it's a potential attempt to derail the Niklas vote by dispersing them elsewhere.

Shortly after that, my PM conversations with Niklas about the meta-gaming convince me to just drop the issue and try and forget it. So, I unvote. However, the bandwagon is still pretty strong at that point and Niklas is still in danger. Subotan then jumps on ATPG's discussion as an excuse to lodge a random vote as does Diamondeye. After that, the bandwagon on Niklas dissipates on its own, and it becomes difficult to determine anything based on the unvotes of Niklas.

The next period of pressure on Niklas did not occur until Day 9. In the meantime, there's an interesting exchange between Niklas and Diamondeye. And a random return shot by Diamondeye against Niklas. A few votes appear on Niklas again on Day 8, lead by Yaropolk (a mark in his favor), but not enough to generate any real pressure on him. However, during that period, Renata (who was consistently FOSing and discussing Niklas throughout the game) lodges a vote against Diamondeye, who seems to be actively concerned in multiple posts even though it's only a single vote and he's perfectly safe.

The next day phase, Day 9, is the phase when the metagaming info about Niklas comes out. Interestingly, autolycus, split, and Diana lead off with votes on Niklas before the case is ever made, which is a point in their favor. The metagaming evidence against Niklas is first introduced by Beskar, and quickly followed by Renata (who later contacted me privately about it as well). A lot of dancing around the issue by dead people is then done, until I make the situation clear. Before the votes start pouring onto Niklas, I intentionally put up pevergreen as an option for the QT screw-up person, even though I am personally very certain that it is Niklas and keep my vote on him. Renata uses that excuse to switch to pevergreen, but her PMs to me made her seem actively upset about the situation, so her reaction is acceptable. Others who jump on the pevergreen option are White_eyes and johnhughthom. Diamondeye's impression of the Niklas/pever situation cannot be determined, as he lodges a pre-bandwagon vote in which he also states he will be AFK for most of the round.

On Day 10, the evidence against Niklas was so strong that the votes just poured on him and never came off. The only vote which raises an eyebrow is Diamondeye's, which is slightly hesitant in its tone. After the lynch, Diamondeye once again gives his bit about the master/apprentice, which I can't see much basis for in the thread. Sounds like inside info, followed by an attempt to distance himself from Niklas.

So, in summary, I see only one person whose name continues to pop up over and over with regard to Niklas:
FOS: Diamondeye

On a final note, it's worth reading this post by Niklas. Sounds like inside knowledge in hindsight:

Failed recruitment attempts, at least. It would be rather foolish to expect successful attempts to be broadcast, no? Though now I see Beskar has made a 180 on that conversion attempt - hmmm!

Best to assume successful recruitment will not be shown in the write-up.

[Diamondeye]

I'm quite impressed by your conjuring tricks, TinCow, but it's all hot air. I can assess your accusations point by point if you want me to, but I'm just going to repeat what I told Niklas in one of posts you linked: "Stare yourself blind, I have nothing to hide."

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me... My main suspects at the moment are Psychonaut and White_Eyes:D, still. I think the theory that one of the sith (Niklas) is from CFC and the other an original .orger holds water. That was your thesis as well, right?

[naut]

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me... My main suspects at the moment are Psychonaut and White_Eyes:D, still. I think the theory that one of the sith (Niklas) is from CFC and the other an original .orger holds water. That was your thesis as well, right?

No, that's my theory.

[Kagemusha]

See how insidious an idea can get, once it creeps inside your head?

The more you focus on me, the less objectively you see the others. But fine, do as you please. If you find something TinCow, go for it. I'll keep my head free of Niklas' WIFOM, and you'll examine it. Maybe one of us will come up with a decent lead.

You and i both know its simple risk managing.It doesnt hurt the Sith lord to recruit you as cannon fodder, since essentially he/she is just killing you,which means one less townie.The Sith would be absurd not to recruit you and town would be the same by not lynching you.The cold hard fact is that you have arrived in the end of the road my friend.

About Niklas.I think he was the senior Sith, but that just means that the apprentice has become a master.

[pevergreen]

Is it just me or is TinCow trying harder than usual?

In thread at least.

[atheotes]

Pizza has to be the default lynch if we dont have any decent choices. The town can do with less of the WIFOM from pizza.

[atheotes]

Is it just me or is TinCow trying harder than usual?

In thread at least.

till a couple of phases ago, i though he was being less ruthless than he usually is.

[Niklas]

So, in summary, I see only one person whose name continues to pop up over and over with regard to Niklas:
FOS: Diamondeye

Oh dang, and here I was trying to protect you. I'm so sorry I've failed you, Diamondeye.

[TinCow]

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me...

I just read every post that you've made, and the very first time you made any comment about me at all was the FOS after I presented a case against Niklas on D5. After that point, you have FOSed me or expressed concerned about me in five separate posts. You're lying through your teeth here. You didn't accuse me of anything ever when I was sitting back and observing, you only started attacking me after I launched my first salvo at Niklas. So, why are you claiming that it was a lack of activity by me that made you suspicious?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You and i both know its simple risk managing.

Very poor risk management.

It doesnt hurt the Sith lord to recruit you as cannon fodder,

Yes it does, Kage. Don't make me drag your limp corpse in front of Yoda and shame you with my logic.

since essentially he/she is just killing you,which means one less townie.

Not even close.

The Sith would be absurd not to recruit you and town would be the same by not lynching you.

Oh, so tempting.... but I'll be quiet.

The cold hard fact is that you have arrived in the end of the road my friend.

Kagemusha you disappoint me, Yoda holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Diamondeye.

I agree with Niklas. Diamondeye should be lynched. He had a scummy post a couple pages ago iirc.

[Kagemusha]

Very poor risk management.



Yes it does, Kage. Don't make me drag your limp corpse in front of Yoda and shame you with my logic.



Not even close.



Oh, so tempting.... but I'll be quiet.



Kagemusha you disappoint me, Yoda holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better.

You dont say anything that compromises my logic."Saying you are wrong" just doesnt really cut it does it? Please shame me with your logic.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You dont say anything that compromises my logic."Saying you are wrong" just doesnt really cut it does it? Please shame me with your logic.

Privately, if I may. atheotes, you too.

I'll see you there.

[Renata]

I never get invited to the good parties.

[Diamondeye]

I just read every post that you've made, and the very first time you made any comment about me at all was the FOS after I presented a case against Niklas on D5. After that point, you have FOSed me or expressed concerned about me in five separate posts. You're lying through your teeth here. You didn't accuse me of anything ever when I was sitting back and observing, you only started attacking me after I launched my first salvo at Niklas. So, why are you claiming that it was a lack of activity by me that made you suspicious?

You struck me as scummy, for some reason. As I've said before, I don't know exactly what triggered that, actually.
And I think I wanted to defend Niklas at the time before I knew him better than most of the rest of players here. I've changed my mind, obviously, since he was discovered sith and brought up for the lynch.

If I'm wrong about the time I started being suspicious of you (or saying so in thread), I apologize. It was not deliberate misinformation, I just wanted to make clear that as far back as I can recall, your replies have had a scummy resonance to me. It might just be your personal style, though...

Oh dang, and here I was trying to protect you. I'm so sorry I've failed you, Diamondeye.

I won't drink from that cup, Niklas. Be gone .

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I actually think Niklas is telling the truth about Diamondeye being his partner. Their interaction is weird and forced. Let's lynch DE.

[TinCow]

You struck me as scummy, for some reason. As I've said before, I don't know exactly what triggered that, actually.

...

If I'm wrong about the time I started being suspicious of you (or saying so in thread), I apologize. It was not deliberate misinformation, I just wanted to make clear that as far back as I can recall, your replies have had a scummy resonance to me. It might just be your personal style, though....

It's interesting that you're now claiming it was just a wishy-washy general scumminess that made you go after me. You were pretty specific about the reasons for your suspicions and the exact timing of them with your last post:

That said, your newfound enthusiasm about actively contributing (the lack thereof what was had pinned you as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS you mentioned - and I had to put both hands to use with the amount of fingers I pointed out then) makes you a bit less suspicious to me...

You said in that post that "the lack thereof" of my contributions was what made you suspect me. That's a very specific reason. Now you claim, only one post later, that you don't know why you went after me? You also said two posts ago that you "pinned [me] as suspicious much before the day 5 FoS" and that this suspicion was so strong that you FoSed me so much that you had to use "both hands." That's not at all compatible with the current reply that you don't know what triggered your suspicions and that you might have made a simple mistake with the timing. You are contradicting yourself constantly in your defense of my FOS, that does not bode well for your innocence.