StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]

**TinCow** · 05-07-2010, 19:00

Originally Posted by Renata

What are the implications if we lynch Centurion today, given Diamondeye's abilities and Psychonaut's claimed protective ability?

Clearly if Centurion dies, we've gotten a Sith. Yippee and all that. But if he doesn't. Who's left alive?

Current alive players:

Askthepizzaguy
Centurion1
Diamondeye
pevergreen
Psychonaut
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow

If Cent1 is lynched and doesn't die, two of those people will be killed tonight. We should assume a worst-case-scenario, which is DE is one of the dead and there are 2 Sith still alive. That will result in a phase tomorrow with 6 alive, max 2 Sith. So, even if we get this wrong with a Cent1 lynch, it's not instant death. Tomorrow will be instant death if we get it wrong, but I see no way of avoiding that no matter what we do.

**naut** · 05-07-2010, 19:03

Originally Posted by Renata

Also, Psycho, you might want to answer my questions as long as you're confessing to unhelpful lies. I bolded them even; I'm helpful like that.

Woops. Missed them. An 8 hour work day + 8 hours worth of doing assignments is not really conducive to reading walls of text. I'll get to them.

**naut** · 05-07-2010, 19:23

Originally Posted by Renata

Okay Psychonaut, now say the timing (of you telling the ruse to Chaotix) and the motivations for everything. What did you envision happening, best case?

I started it early on, before I knew who Chaotix was, I only explained it to him later on. I think, sometime around when we were trying to figure out the overlap with myself and Diamondeye going to the holocron. My motivations? Frustration at being a master with no abilities for absolutely ages. Best case, I hoped it would work and I'd catch someone. Worst case, it'd get me lynched, but hey that's a risk worth taking.

Originally Posted by Renata

You say you suspected that Niklas was Beskar's leak and you wanted to entrap him.

No, no you've got it the wrong way round. As a result of the false information I suspected him, not that I was specifically targeting him. I was suspicious of Beskar's initial group. The fact that my information didn't seem to influence who was killed and your responses to me cleared you in my mind. That left one player unaccounted for at that stage: Niklas. Pretty rudimentary stuff really.

Originally Posted by Renata

You gave Beskar only a list of names. The more detailed information you gave to me didn't come until several days later, and you could not know I would give it to Niklas directly. As far as I'm aware you never told it to anyone else.

I gave Beskar the list of names to gain his attention, remember this was back when we all didn't know what side of the fence he was on. I gave you more because you demanded more, I didn't specifically know you'd share it, but I figured you were in contact with enough players for you to at least mention it or divulge parts of it. Anyone else, yes I briefly PMed Niklas, but he wasn't particularly forth-coming.

**Renata** · 05-07-2010, 19:30

Went past 1000 posts and didn't even notice, haha.

Psychonaut's PMs. All times US EDT:

April 21 11:13

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The thing that sticks RIGHT out given Psychonaut's latest comments is his suggestion that his weird accusation of Beskar as neutral came from his investigation results -- the results he now says were made up out of whole cloth.

April 21 12:05

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

April 22 19:44

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

April 23 9:31

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Originally Posted by Renata

Can you tell me roughly what your results were on the dead players minus Yoda and Dooku, and on what night they turned up in your results? (That is, Captain Blackadder and Winston Hughes.) Also, assuming that Palpatine is the force killer, there should still be one other "jedi" active every single night out killing people. Were any of the people on your list plausibly connected to that?

Night 1:
Captain Blackadder (Daye Azur-Jamin) - reference to lack of formal training, (followed up by Blackadder himself posting in thread about how he taught himself), I then contacted him to see if he was Luke Skywalker or Kyle Katarn, he replied saying he was neither. I drew the conclusion.
Possible Dooku reference, implications about him as an instructor at the Jedi Temple.
Luke Skywalker - seems to have found a holocron.
Fluff about holocrons.

Night 2:
Chaotix (Yoda) - witnessed him walking down a hallway, I couldn't make out what he was doing, his appearance is mentioned.
Beskar (Dooku) - struggles with internal conflicts, anger, which I took to mean he was neutral/recruitable. Probably look back on it, it was another reference to his time before he joined the dark side.
Corran Horn - probable reference to purity.

Night 3:
Qui-Gon Jinn - seems if I find him my "understanding" may improve.
Sifo Dyas - appears to be sleeping.
Yeseikhaan (Palpatine) - complete misinterpretation on my part, what appeared to be a cloaking, a hidden aspect to him was probably just a reference to him being Sith susceptible.
Yoda, jumble of semi-incoherent sentences, one stands out is a quote "Meditate on this, I will." followed by clear your mind of chaos.

Night 4:
Atris, fluff, fluff, fluff. I have no idea what is or is not relevant here.
Tahiri Veila, nothing much, the role name, an obscure reference.
Yoda again, this time his actions against Dooku.
Possible Anakin Skywalker reference, or a reference to the lightsaber Sith.

Night 5:
Winston Hughes (Koffi Arana) - it appears I essentially witnessed his death. The reference to his killer is strange, it could indicate Darth Wyyrlok.
Micah Giiett - again sleeping. Nothing significant.
Reference to force ghosts.

Night 6:
Githany - probably susceptible to the dark side.
Qui-Gon Jinn - I seem to be trying to reach out to him. His back is turned.
Reference to only two Sith.
Possible Thermal Mercury reference, planets come up somewhat readily.

There are some underlying themes, specifically eyes, and eye colour. There are some links that could relate to player names as well, but I may simply be misinterpreting it, I don't really want to speculate, at this stage. If anything Githany could be a cover role, but, she may just be a susceptible to the dark side.

I'll double check my notes to see if I've missed anything.

April 25, 6:57

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

April 25, 12:13

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

April 27, 8:13

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

(I responded that this meant nothing to me -- besides the vig thing, I see no reason the Sith would be excluded from holocron visits nor that they would never get random abilities of lesser use to them as well as those of high value. Certainly happens to the rest of us that way.)

May 3, 00:16

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Two things regarding this last one, which I hadn't mentioned before. This was when I still suspected Diamondeye. I had learned I was under attack, having actually visited the holocron twice by then and come up with two defensive options. Diamondeye commented to me in private, after saying otherwise in the thread, that he had actually gotten no ability from Psychonaut's investigation. So Psychonaut here is contradicting him. Still not sure what's going on with this one or whether it means anything. Diamondeye might wish to comment.

The other thing is that Psychonaut's protective ability does present another "why is Diamondeye still alive" explanation, though only I think if Psychonaut is mafia (he never talked about this in public, did he?): he's supposed to be protecting DE. I'd managed to forget about it in all the confusion, but Psychonaut would not have.

It doesn't explain why DE was never roleblocked before now.

**Renata** · 05-07-2010, 19:33

Psycho, which information did you expect to influence who was killed, and why did you expect it to work?

Edit: also explain the self-serving Beskar thing (and why you questioned Beskar in that way in the absence of any such information); the smear and retraction against Palpatine; and the addition of "i was really confused how this worked, see, so obviously it's the truth" information like that given about Captain Blackadder.

Edit 2, Electric Boogaloo: is Force Cloak a real ability?

**naut** · 05-07-2010, 19:34

Originally Posted by Renata

The thing that sticks RIGHT out given Psychonaut's latest comments is his suggestion that his weird accusation of Beskar as neutral came from his investigation results -- the results he now says were made up out of whole cloth.

Simple.

Notice the yellow, completely different to the gold everyone else has. That made me think he was neutral.

Originally Posted by Renata

It doesn't explain why DE was never roleblocked before now.

I see two explanations, either like the rest of us the Sith visit the holocron and get abilities or they get new abilities as they kill. Both seem feasible in my mind.

Originally Posted by Renata

Psycho, which information did you expect to influence who was killed, and why did you expect it to work?

Originally Posted by Renata

Edit: also explain the self-serving Beskar thing (and why you questioned Beskar in that way in the absence of any such information); the smear and retraction against Palpatine; and the addition of "i was really confused how this worked, see, so obviously it's the truth" information like that given about Captain Blackadder.

What Beskar thing, please explain what you mean?

Palpatine was a guess, I assumed, like any sane person would, that that's a bang on Sith. Then when nothing came from his lynch I realised my mistake and figured out why he and several other Sith sounding roles were in the game, to prevent townie networks forming. Someone with the role Palpatine, Anakin or Githany isn't really going to be parading that around everywhere, as john indicated last round. Also I made up that I couldn't identify who it was with the phoney force cloak thing because a) I thought if you knew who it was perhaps you'd accidentally betray something and b) you'd press for his identity when I had no possible way of picking him out of a line up.

Info about Blackadder. He posted in thread that he trained himself. It doesn't take a genius to google "Self Taught Jedi" and get one of three options: Luke, Kyle Katarn and ~~the other guy~~ Daye Azur-Jamin.

**Renata** · 05-07-2010, 20:21

The Beskar thing: one of the bases for my accusation against you was how nonsensical (and obviously mafia-serving) that "Beskar is neutral" thing came across. You provided an explanation for it as part of your investigations (and please note you didn't give these to me until *after* Beskar was dead), which means they weren't designed exclusively as bait for the mafia (if they were at all -- still struggling with that one), whatever you say. They were also designed to get me off your back.

**TinCow** · 05-07-2010, 20:50

I am heading out now and will not be back before the phase is over. My vote will not be moving again. I would like to emphasize that a close vote is not a good idea, because Niklas has shown up nearly every single round with a last-minute vote. He could easily save his scumbuddy, whoever that is, if we do not make a decision here. Please swing the vote one way or another.

Psychonaut, if you have not voted already, I highly recommend that you do so now.

**naut** · 05-07-2010, 20:56

Renata, yes, some of it was to get you of my back. Of course. Some of it was to see if you'd give away anything or contest anything. But the whole Beskar was neutral thing was all down to that colour of the image, nothing more, nothing less.

And yes a tie would be the worst possible happening. Vote: Centurion1

**Sigurd** · 05-07-2010, 21:06

Alright... I am heading out to see a film with an old class mate. Wifey stays home to work on her Masters thesis.
She is not liking me tasking off like that and has given me snide remarks all evening

.

I will be able to close the vote, but I wont be around to make a full writeup.

If someone would be kind enough to provide a tally in exactly 1 hour, that would be grand.

Oh, and I am going to see the Clash of the Titans in 3D.

**Chaotix** · 05-07-2010, 21:26

Vote: Centurion

All this crap about Psychonaut being guilty is crap.

**Chaotix** · 05-07-2010, 21:27

Oh, Psycho, those role profiles, like the one you gave for Dooku-

They come directly from Wookiepedia. They've got no bearing on the actual roles in this game.

**atheotes** · 05-07-2010, 21:32

i was going to change it anyway...
unvote; Vote: Centurion

**Renata** · 05-07-2010, 21:39

I think this is the right move, at the end of the day. Good luck town.

**Beskar** · 05-07-2010, 21:49

Originally Posted by Sigurd

Oh, and I am going to see the Clash of the Titans in 3D.

Poor you.

It has zero story and the special effects weren't that great either.

**naut** · 05-07-2010, 21:52

Originally Posted by Beskar

Poor you.

It has zero story and the special effects weren't that great either.

It has an Aussie guy in sandals though, that makes it semi-decent.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-07-2010, 21:56

Originally Posted by TinCow

Hmm... this checks out. I tested, and all 5 of those pictures do indeed show up with the simple substitute method I used. That makes perfect sense.

Unvote; Vote: Centurion1

This is why lying is bad, even if you're a townie.

I was about to say...

After hearing from Chaotix how wrong I am, and how much I'm going to waste townie abilities tonight, I was about to protest.

And yeah, all that lying just made me go OFF on Psychonaut, and now, I'm a worse suspect than before, thanks much. Great plan, awesome job. Less lying and I maybe wouldn't have taken the bait.

You do realize that stuff is more likely to fool townies than it is likely to fool the Sith? I spent how many hours prosecuting Psychonaut? Give me a break.

**Sigurd** · 05-07-2010, 22:02

voting ended....

**Yaropolk** · 05-07-2010, 22:07

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

It has an Aussie guy in sandals though, that makes it semi-decent.

Yes, Perseus the Greek son of a greek god is Aussie =/ Just like the space - Aussie he played in Avatar.

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 05-07-2010, 22:24

Originally Posted by Sigurd

I will be able to close the vote, but I wont be around to make a full writeup.

Can you give the flip without doing a whole writeup? So that people can plan their night actions...

Oh, and I am going to see the Clash of the Titans in 3D.

It was awesome, wish I'd seen it in 3d. Ignore the amateur critics

**Chaotix** · 05-07-2010, 22:25

Phew. All done with catch-up.

After we see the write-up, I'll lay out our remaining suspects for tomorrow. There are several players that I know are almost certainly innocent, and one of them who is definitely innocent unless converted very recently.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-07-2010, 22:39

Now I am forced to give my defense.... once again.

First of all, I can never be the original Sith lord. One look at round two, and the round where I toss my body in front of Chaotix's when you guys were going to lynch him should tell you.

On round two, I was disgusted at being wagoned simply because I've done networks in the past, and wouldn't cooperate when people told me to start doing this and stop doing this. I unsubscribed and I was done. The only reason I even came back was because Beskar and others started talking to me and encouraged me to come back. That's when that Beskar group was formed, and Niklas infiltrated it. It was Csargo, actually, now that I think back on it.... he was trying to get me to switch votes onto him, because he said he had lynch immunity. I initially refused.

Later, a mass chat was organized and to my credit, it wasn't ME who invited Niklas to the party. Csargo tried again to spare me and I said no.

ugh/unreadable MSN logs. (Highlighted: Name of person who is speaking, until that changes)
Interesting dialogue highlighted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

End of chat log, (not really the end, the rest isn't that interesting) let's not clutter up too much, spoiler again:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Doesn't prove much except that I was willing to die and didn't understand or believe Ichigo when he said he could take the lynch for me and survive. I was against the idea. The entire initiative to spare me came from Beskar and the others. I didn't ask for it or even really want it.

Go back and check that round where I offer my life for Chaotix's.... I did not have anti-lynch powers back then. If I did, my usual tactic would have been to claim such, after we saw Csargo and Beskar claim such, and use it to "prove" myself. I only just recently got such powers. I nearly died once again, this time trying to spare Yoda which some people were keen on revealing. Unfortunately this game has been wonderous and blunderous. I don't feel quite as bad for my own mistakes when I look at just how poorly we all have done on certain rounds.

This latest push on Psychonaut: Wasn't my idea. Came from Renata and YLC. After listening to their case over the course of several rounds, and all those unanswered questions needed to be answered, and Centurion1 was actually fighting hard for his life... probably harder than I would have if I were the final Sith, I decided to get the answers they sought. Centurion1 reveals he's got anti-lynch powers, and Psychonaut doesn't. I see that it seems strategically superior to knock off Psychonaut first, then block/investigate/et al Centurion1. I put my butt on the line defending either the worst townie ever or the most obvious Sith ever, hoping that the pressure will catch Psychonaut in a lie.

_______

But what was the end result? All of those questions were unanswered because it was one big fat lie right after the other. He falsely claimed to have this power, he falsely claimed to have that power, and the entire thing was one big set-up, on the surface trying to get someone to murder Psychonaut who had no really useful abilities it seemed. Well I bought it, hook line and sinker. And believe you me, if I thought Psychonaut was a pro-town role totally unlikely to get lynched, he'd have been dead a LONG time ago, were I a Sith. You fooled me only too well.

You want to know why I consider Psychonaut dangerous? He's one of the few players I know of who would use those Sasaki-level tactics, which really do work to fool gullible people. I might come up with schemes like those but I fall for them too. I look at the actions of the current Sith, and I don't see incompetence. I see cool, calculating brilliance. That is why I consider Psychonaut to be more likely to be Sith than Centurion1, who has played either the most brilliant pity play I've ever seen, or the worst lurker scum performance of the past year. I didn't consider Cent to be that bad a player, then add that in with all of Psychonaut's lies and dead townie suspicions and boom, nearly gets Psycho lynched. I feel quite used and dirty now, thanks.

So Psychonaut is clean huh? My mistake. But SURELY you could see why I was mistaken. Using your powers on me tonight is an equally large mistake. Chaotix knows why, but I am not sure he believes me. You consider my performance this game some brilliant self-sacrificing act if I were a Sith Lord, or perhaps a Sith recruit who obviously turned scum at one point and has been behaving erratically ever since? Look at Mafia IX. I was bandwagony and defensive all game until I felt analysis might be more accurate, the late game. Then I went off on Methos and Sasaki, Methos was lynched and was innocent. Sudden switch in behavior in the endgame.... it's me getting serious and trying to pressure the mafia until they crack, or analyze, guess correctly, form a case, and wagon someone to death. Standard procedure. That's the switch in behavior you see.

And by the way, if I were the Sith recruit, and Centurion1 turned out not to be the Sith lord, you really should be checking Subotan and/or pevergreen. Those two are the next most likely to be the Sith lord. Don't think it is Split. if it were, I would have been recruited immediately. between Centurion1 and Subotan and pevergreen and Split, I believe Subotan or pever would try to recruit Diana even though I was revealed to be susceptible.

There's my defense.

Now we see if Centurion1 was the Sith, or if he wasn't lying about his anti-lynch powers. I hope for our sake he was full of it.

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 05-07-2010, 22:44

I would look somewhere other than pizza personally.

**Chaotix** · 05-07-2010, 22:46

Yeah, if he manages to survive another round, I will be rather annoyed.

ATPG, I want to believe you are not Sith, but any time between now and the time Niklas died you could have been recruited. The same is, of course, true for anyone else who is susceptible. But I can't clear you just because you make massive defenses of yourself with very big words, because you do the same thing when you are mafia.

The most I can say in public is that you are not the only suspect of mine right now.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-07-2010, 22:55

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Yeah, if he manages to survive another round, I will be rather annoyed.

ATPG, I want to believe you are not Sith, but any time between now and the time Niklas died you could have been recruited. The same is, of course, true for anyone else who is susceptible. But I can't clear you just because you make massive defenses of yourself with very big words, because you do the same thing when you are mafia.

The most I can say in public is that you are not the only suspect of mine right now.

That's fair enough.

What I am saying though is that for the past what, 5 rounds or so, almost every round I said: Block me, investigate me. Even said you could drain my anti-lynch power or my anti-scan, and told you of both powers immediately after I got them.

If I was recruited right after Niklas, that does not add up.

Only reason I am saying don't waste your time on me tonight is because you've ignored my request for too long and now there's no time. You must be more accurate with your powers.

In fact, blocking/scanning those others means if stuff keeps happening it can only be me anyway. I'm not even getting out of anything if you leave me unmolested tonight.

**Centurion1** · 05-07-2010, 22:56

This terrible town play

**Askthepizzaguy** · 05-07-2010, 23:06

Originally Posted by Centurion1

This terrible town play

Forgive us, we've learned from the master.

I argued your innocence way harder than you did, so shush.

**Choxorn** · 05-07-2010, 23:10

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Yeah, if he manages to survive another round, I will be rather annoyed.

Agreed, I call BS on the RNG if it seriously gave him back his lynch immunity. That's ridiculous.

**Centurion1** · 05-07-2010, 23:49

Forgive us, we've learned from the master.

I argued your innocence way harder than you did, so shush.

touche

and chaotix get ready to call alot of bull cause guess what i told the truth!!!!

**Renata** · 05-07-2010, 23:52

Yeah, I'm not impressed by Psychonaut's strategy if he's town. Considering half the reason I've been so focused on him the entire game is that HIS ABILITY CLAIM MADE NO SENSE. Congrats, Psycho, you managed to distract one of the more analytical townies into (edit: there was supposed to be a word here. I forget what).

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