Daggers in the Night [Concluded]

[KukriKhan]

LOL, you're not alone mate. I started to make a vote post, then checked the last write-up. Oops!

[The Stranger]

This is possibly your scummiest post so far in the game. I don't think anyone believes Diana is mafia, so anyone she kills is like a second lynch for the town. If there are still 2 henchmen left alive, then it becomes even more important for us to dispose of them faster than we can with the lynch. 2 henchmen alive means 3 mafia votes every day, which will make it difficult to put a henchman iinto the #2 slot after Kage. So, vigging suspects is a good idea at this point.

i hadnt thought of it that way. you are right about that. and i didnt say diana was mafia, i just said that we might not pick the right suspect.

[Renata]

TinCow's idea to keep lynching Kagemusha under controlled circumstances is really intriguing, and I think I'm all for it, provided:
-- we all place normal votes for most of the day, switching to Kagemusha as necessary only in the last few hours, and
-- enough people commit to be around near day end to make the switch possible
-- we lynch (or vig) anyone who screws it up

I'm in for trying to work out some ground rules, anyone else?

[TinCow]

i hadnt thought of it that way. you are right about that. and i didnt say diana was mafia, i just said that we might not pick the right suspect.

I'd like some more explanations from you. Yesterday, you were gung-ho on vig kills:

still protecting beskar eh...

i think it is becoming time to use the vig kill.

i think everyone should vote which 2 persons they want to see vigkilled. this may tell us alot about who is mafia too. anyone who doesnt vote... is suspicious.

Vigkill: Renata
Vigkill:Kagemusha

i believe them to be scummy but im not entirely sure about their intentions, they might be genuine townies, but i dont want to take the risk.

You thought it was time to use vig kills and you weren't particularly concerned about killing off "genuine townies" in the process.

Yet, as soon as Kage is lynched, you suddenly go moderately anti-vig kill:

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

And several hours later you make a strong push to stop any vig kills:

well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.

because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

The only thing that changed between your first post, pushing the vig kills, and your later posts discouraging vig kills, is Kage being found out as the godfather. If anything that should make people more inclined to use vig kills, not less. Your flipflip is not consistent with being a townie.

Also note that in the second post I quoted above, you say "we prolly got 2 mafia already" but then in the third post you try to argue that "the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills." You're adopting contradictory stances as it suits you and you're not basing your arguments on personally grounded beliefs. This is also not consistent with being a townie.

Finally, this bit is totally off:

we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

You're saying that a situation with 3 mafioso and 10 townies alive would be "tricky to pull off a victory" but a situation with 3 mafioso and 11 townies alive would be a "comfortable position"? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[The Stranger]

well... like i said, i hadnt considered the votes, only the kills. so you were right.

and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.

while earlier i thought the vigkill as a bonus, an extra shot to get a mafioso, not our only means.

[Renata]

and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.

I don't follow the reasoning here. Why would the vigs be our only way to get the last mafioso? How many do you think are left, anyway?

[Secura]

It's basic backpedalling.

[TinCow]

well... like i said, i hadnt considered the votes, only the kills. so you were right.

and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.

while earlier i thought the vigkill as a bonus, an extra shot to get a mafioso, not our only means.

You didn't answer the main question: what happened to make you change your mind from thinking vig kills were good to vig kills were bad? You pushed for vig kills in this post, and you urged no vig kills in this post.

During that time, here is a complete list of all the posts which discuss vig kills during the time between your posts:
Diamondeye - Somewhat neutral, edging on discouraging vig kills
Renata - pushing vig kills
Renata - urges a vig kill again
Sasaki - urges vig kill
ATPG - strongly urges vig kill, but wants to save 1 for later
ATPG - wants to save 1 vig kill for later
Diana - asks for opinions on whether to use vig kills
ATPG - favors vig kill
Sasaki - wants to save 1 for later
Scienter - Vig should not be used on Kage, no comment on using it on others

As you can see, there is a grand total of 1 post which discourages the use of vig kills, Diamondeye's. Even that post isn't very strong and it's early on; you made several posts after that point and didn't show any flip on vig kills, so clearly DE didn't convince you. All of the other posts are pro-vig kill or neutral on it. So, there's nothing in the thread to convince you to flip from pro-vig to anti-vig. Thus, the only thing that changed to impact your opinion was Kage being revealed as scum.

Why did Kage being revealed make you go anti-vig kill?

[The Stranger]

I don't follow the reasoning here. Why would the vigs be our only way to get the last mafioso? How many do you think are left, anyway?

well... if we would do what tincow proposes, and that is to lynch kage every night from here on... that we can only get his henchmen by vigkilling. in that case it is not smart to throw them away. that is all i was trying to say.

i think there are 2 left, atleast i hope so.

[Renata]

@ TinCow: That first post of mine actually said I thought it was too early for vig kills; and the second was a hypothetical on how split should preferably die, not an advocate for anyone to die by vig tonight, either. I think your argument about Stranger is probably valid despite that, but please don't mischaracterize me just to get your point across.

[The Stranger]

You didn't answer the main question: what happened to make you change your mind from thinking vig kills were good to vig kills were bad? You pushed for vig kills in this post, and you urged no vig kills in this post.

During that time, here is a complete list of all the posts which discuss vig kills during the time between your posts:
Diamondeye - Somewhat neutral, edging on discouraging vig kills
Renata - pushing vig kills
Renata - urges a vig kill again
Sasaki - urges vig kill
ATPG - strongly urges vig kill, but wants to save 1 for later
ATPG - wants to save 1 vig kill for later
Diana - asks for opinions on whether to use vig kills
ATPG - favors vig kill
Sasaki - wants to save 1 for later
Scienter - Vig should not be used on Kage, no comment on using it on others

As you can see, there is a grand total of 1 post which discourages the use of vig kills, Diamondeye's. Even that post isn't very strong and it's early on; you made several posts after that point and didn't show any flip on vig kills, so clearly DE didn't convince you. All of the other posts are pro-vig kill or neutral on it. So, there's nothing in the thread to convince you to flip from pro-vig to anti-vig. Thus, the only thing that changed to impact your opinion was Kage being revealed as scum.

Why did Kage being revealed make you go anti-vig kill?

it was your post that made me change my mind. not kage reveal.

but anyhow, get your point across all you want, if the town falls for it is their own fault if they lose. i didnt stunt, so i held to my end of the bargain.

[TinCow]

@ TinCow: That first post of mine actually said I thought it was too early for vig kills; and the second was a hypothetical on how split should preferably die, not an advocate for anyone to die by vig tonight, either. I think your argument about Stranger is probably valid despite that, but please don't mischaracterize me just to get your point across.

Sorry, I stand corrected. I think I read the first bit as pro-vig and then my eyes glazed over when reading the final line.

it was your post that made me change my mind. not kage reveal.

My post? Please show where I made a post saying that vigging was a bad idea.

Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill

Why are you lying?

[Renata]

This is beautiful play, TinCow. Sincere appreciation.

[The Stranger]

Sorry, I stand corrected. I think I read the first bit as pro-vig and then my eyes glazed over when reading the final line.



My post? Please show where I made a post saying that vigging was a bad idea.

Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:



Why are you lying?

are you intentionally misreading my posts? the post you posted before my post, which is the reason you accuse me now, is the reason why i changed my mind. you said we are going to lynch kage everyday, so i said, well than its not smart to blindly use vigkills. that is all there is to it.

i really think you are mafia, but any attempt to get you lynched will be ignored, as it has been ignored since the start of the game. since whatever i say will be ignored unless by mafia trying to change me into their advantage. like kage did by trying to get me lynched. and as you do now.

Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:

why are you lying? i never said that, so dont put words in my mouth. it was you who said that not me. dont try to frame me with lies, be honest.


you can keep pressuring me all you want, days months years :P

but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?



consider these two cases

i am mafia, but not the ancient one, since i wasnt really a target for a vigkill, i would let you waste it, instead of arguing for it to be saved.

i am mafia, i am the ancient one, and i saved kage from death (this is hypotethical and what i say now i got from sasakis post a few pages back), by using one of my special powers, why would i, again, wouldnt i let you waste your vigkill?

there is no advantage at all for mafia to argue for the town saving its vigkill, for the reason that they are highly unlikely to succeed in taking out a mafia.

[TinCow]

are you intentionally misreading my posts? the post you posted before my post, which is the reason you accuse me now, is the reason why i changed my mind. you said we are going to lynch kage everyday, so i said, well than its not smart to blindly use vigkills. that is all there is to it.

Odd, since I made that post about 12 hours after you changed your mind. I must be better at arguing than I thought if I'm able to convince people with my words half a day before I even speak them.

why are you lying? i never said that, so dont put words in my mouth. it was you who said that not me. dont try to frame me with lies, be honest.

Me lying? I quoted directly from your post, in which you said "i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill." I realize your sentence structure isn't perfect there, but it seems pretty clear to me. It was your opinion that "since" we had identified the Ancient One, vig killing was not a good idea. Please explain how I am misreading that.

but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?

Apparently Kagemusha.

[The Stranger]

i dont know if you are blind, but my post is behind yours, i posted my post 1.5 hours later than yours.

[TinCow]

i dont know if you are blind, but my post is behind yours, i posted my post 1.5 hours later than yours.

Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.

For the record, I have quoted the post I am referring to in its entirety once, then linked to it once, followed by another partial quote with embedded link, then provided another link to it with my own manual quote. Since that apparently isn't enough to make you understand which post I'm talking about, I will post it again in full.

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

I have conveniently highlighted for you the sentence to which I am referring.

[The Stranger]

well... maybe you dont understand what i am writing, but... i havent changed my mind in that post. i was still considering both options.

it wasnt until this post

well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.

because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.

that i changed my mind. and that post was behind your post, and i wrote because i read your post.

[The Stranger]

Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.

For the record, I have quoted the post I am referring to in its entirety once, then linked to it once, followed by another partial quote with embedded link, then provided another link to it with my own manual quote. Since that apparently isn't enough to make you understand which post I'm talking about, I will post it again in full.



I have conveniently highlighted for you the sentence to which I am referring.

and dont get demeaning, because if i cant do it, than no one is allowed to do so.

[TinCow]

well... maybe you dont understand what i am writing, but... i havent changed my mind in that post.

Really? You're going to claim that saying this:

i think it is becoming time to use the vig kill.

i think everyone should vote which 2 persons they want to see vigkilled. this may tell us alot about who is mafia too. anyone who doesnt vote... is suspicious.

Vigkill: Renata
Vigkill:Kagemusha

and then saying this:

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill.

is not changing your mind?

[The Stranger]

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

is clearly, intented to show, that i am considering 2 options...


you take only one part of my post, you are like those reporters who cut and paste everything to make it look like something they want it to look like. now the question is why do you want me to look like mafia so badly?

[TinCow]

is clearly, intented to show, that i am considering 2 options...

No, it's clearly intended to hedge your bets, which is also a mafia tell.

you take only one part of my post, you are like those reporters who cut and paste everything to make it look like something they want it to look like. now the question is why do you want me to look like mafia so badly?

Very sorry, the entire post must indeed be considered. Taking sections out of context is bad.

i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.

i dont know who kage would chose as a mafia, and since my previous accusations were largely aimed at beskar, but since we prolly got 2 mafia already, it might be that beskar isnt guilty after all.

pevergreen and tincow remain my 2 topcats. but i rather see them lynched than vigkilled. i think split is a good target for the lynch since he cleverly keeps avoiding wog whilst lurking in the dark.

Oh, look at that. After you hedged your bets 'in favor' of vig killing, you once again expressed a preference for lynching instead of vig killing.

[The Stranger]

... now you are getting to farfetched. i do notice a typo, because i say in that post that i think split is good for lynch, i meant that he was good for vigikill.

anyhow, i am done with this, since i you really want to paint me mafia, and in order to do so, you will use guerilla media tactics such as taking posts out of context, such as mine and renatas post.

i cannot properly defend myself against that, and since i have no need to do so, i wont.

[TinCow]

The prosecution rests.

[Secura]

but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?

A very clever, ballsy player would definitely pick you as their underling; the very fact that you're still alive, despite your inane behaviour and a fair few bandwagons against you, is testament to that fact.

I don't actually have an entirely negative opinion of you, I think that there's a good player somewhere underneath all the trash... so you'd be just as much of an asset to the mafia as a hinderance, which is something that a ballsy player might enjoy, liven the game up a little.

Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.

Oh, TinCow... never before have I read one of your posts and utterly fell in love with it.

[Secura]

The prosecution rests.

Now I know why Beskar always says you're like Miles Edgeworth... there's no arguing against you. xD

[The Stranger]

A very clever, ballsy player would definitely pick you as their underling; the very fact that you're still alive, despite your inane behaviour and a fair few bandwagons against you, is testament to that fact.

I don't actually have an entirely negative opinion of you, I think that there's a good player somewhere underneath all the trash... so you'd be just as much of an asset to the mafia as a hinderance, which is something that a ballsy player might enjoy, liven the game up a little.

trash and good, my two favourite words, thank you!

[Diamondeye]

I love you, TinCow. That was a curb-stomp-debate if I ever saw one (and I, like Secura, fell in love with the protip-part). I think it makes sense to suspect The Stranger... But unlike pever I'll hold my vote until day comes

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am convinced that The Stranger needs to die before the game is concluded. I say we lynch him today.

@ The Stranger- dang, man... you know where my blind spot is. Worst play ever turns into the best play against me, because then I decide you're innocent.

[The Stranger]

ok, my last words.

TC is mafia, and he has really got you good here if you lynch me. it is a wasted vote and i hope it wont cost the town the game.

and ATPG, really... you amongst other people search for clues where there are none, you take the game too seriously.