language and accent question about Napoleon

[Kagemusha]

Not a true Frenchman. Just like Obama is not American and Churchill not British.


Even more worryingly, neither are those Italians Platini and Cantona. Petit is a blond Norman, thus not French either.

Édith Piaf is an Italo-Berber. Aznavour an Armenian.

Yves Saint Laurent is a pied-noir. Jean-Paul Belmondo and Jacques Derrida are pieds-noirs too, but of foreign ancestry no less!

Sarkozy's an Ottoman-Hungarian. De Gaulle a Ch'ti, thus really Flemish. Maréchal Joffre was born in a Catalan region, thus he's Spanish.


None are French. Come to think of it, I'm going to send this thread to the Front National headquarters. Le Pen was born outside of Frenc culture, and only learned proper French when he was send to boarding school, just like Napoléon. So he's not French at all. That'll teach those nationalists.

So in the end the whole French thing is just a myth. There is no such thing?

[Louis VI the Fat]

So in the end the whole French thing is just a myth. There is no such thing?

almost. You are getting to the heart of what I'm trying to say.

France is an imposed culture. France is a collection of lose territories, whose inhabitants all had to learn French in school or in the army, had to adopt French timezone, French metric system, French culture, standardised language. This centralisation and nation-building is the modern history of France.

One misses a fundamental aspect of France if one says that 'Oh, Napoléon spoke Corsu and was born in a remote region, with a culture that's not really French, so therefore he isn't truly French'. This fundamental aspect is, that this is the story of the whole of France. There was no such thing as a French culture on the mainland, to which Corsica was then an outsider. For the overwhelming amount of people Paris was but a distant city, sometimes several weeks travel away. It might as well have been Rome or Jerusalem. French was spoken by perhaps ten to fifteen percent of the people, less than half having any knowledge of it at all. The interior wasn't even mapped yet. Corsica's coastal regions were better known than most of the mainland - full of ancient tribes, were even a priest risked life and limbs if he dared to disrespect lingering ancient superstitions. Corsica did not differ much at all from all those other regions, each one so different and so remote and 'not culturally French'. Corsica was the norm, not the exception.

Napoléon was not exceptional for growing up outside of French culture, for learning French from the age of nine. Napoléon was exceptional because he did speak French and was part of French culture.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vercors mountains in the east, close to the Alps so still largely undiscovered:



Rousillon in the southeast:



Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, typical Quercy architecture: houses with white limestone walls made of rough-hewn stones, and pointed roofs and turrets covered with reddish brown tiles.




The Basque country.


Labourd. The French Basque Country is made up of three subprovinces. Labourd is the westernmost one. As you can guess from the plants in the picture, the coastal Basque Country enjoys balmy weather all year round. It is also a very wet area, with some of the highest levels of rain in France. The countryside is thus very green, and this green color contrasts lovely with the red and white tints of the houses. Green, red and white, after all those are the colors of the Basque flag.

These houses may look modern, but they are in fact very old, dating back to the 17th century.




Hondschoote, in French Flanders. This windmill is also known as the Moulin de la Victoire ("Victory Windmill") because it was used as a watch tower during the Battle of Hondschoote in 1793 when the armies of the French Republic defeated the British under the Duke of York thus lifting the British siege of Dunkirk and saving the French Revolution

Flat and windmills and flowerfields and Flemish trading towns.



Back to the other side of France again.







France, both Mediterannean....




...and northern Atlantic in Brittany....




...the fog of the West....




...to the snow of the east...



...to Prémery, typical of a thousand villages in the green centre...



...and Gascogny in the southwest...




...to the Loire river in the middle...



...and the valleys of the southwest.

And I have only barely scratched the surface of it all. I've got thirty six thousand more pictures like these. That's how many villages there are. All different.

France IS this loose collection of regions. As Karl Marx said: France is just a bag, that holds together a bunch of loose potatoes.
All have different languages. All are 'not really French'. Until one realises that there is no France, but that this collection of non-French regions is France.

[Kagemusha]

Breath taking sceneries there Louis. I think im getting a hint where you are coming from with yur point. While my comparison is quite lame. I think Europa Universalis game set it right when you dont have a "French" culture but "Cosmopolitan" culture is the word to used for central King governed areas that expanded and assimilated areas where populations associated themselves as Occitain, Gasgongnese or Normandese just to point few of them.

[A Very Super Market]

Louis, this is all fair and well, but how does this differ from the rest of Europe? Germany and Italy are both younger than France, both possessing their own centuries-old histories of squabbling boundaries, and no unifying monarch to give the slightest pretense of order. How well did the Ottomans fare with the disorderly Balkans? Perhaps to New Worlders, this is is an alien concept, but the whole of Europe right now is a stockroom of potato sacks. It's gloriously convoluted if you look deep into the pits and crevices of European history, and I surmise that Louis is just striking out at us from across the Atlantic as punishment for our less magnificent past.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Breath taking sceneries there Louis. I think im getting a hint where you are coming from with yur point. While my comparison is quite lame. I think Europa Universalis game set it right when you dont have a "French" culture but "Cosmopolitan" culture is the word to used for central King governed areas that expanded and assimilated areas where populations associated themselves as Occitain, Gasgongnese or Normandese just to point few of them.

That's a good comparison, methinks.

Western Europe is full of settled communities. If you cover a large area of it, you'll be an incredibly diverse nation. Ancient tribes, invaders, mongrels. Dozens of languages, legal systems, time zones, tax zones, building styles, climates. By the time of the aquisition of Corsica, there was a France, there were peoples, but was there a French nation? Somewhat, but to a very large extent not. Citizenship was a result of the Revolution. The nation was build mostly in the 19th century - although the process had been well underway in the 18th.
The story of Napoléon, Corsicans of his day, being French is a complicated one. Surprisingly, it is perhaps easier to put an exact date on Corsica becoming Fench than on France becoming French.


Of course, the problem with this thread isn't Napoléon. I don't care for the little upstart. No, why I get my knickers in a twist is, if Bonaparte is not really French, then Alizée isn't French either - she's from the same town as Nappy.
The thought of Alizée as anything but a little Frenchie would be an intolerable blow to my civic pride.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I tried to convey a sense of variety and remoteness in the previous post. Different architectecture, cultures. A brief look at people here should show the same thing. I've always wondered why anthropologists fly to New Guinea by the planeful when a good eye can see so mcuh in Western Europe still.
A mishmash of peoples who based on some geography, some ancient Roman divisions, and most of all dynastic considerations from 843 onwards were slowly formed into a nation:


The tv series 'Napoléon'. Two of the main characters were played by very different looking Frenchmen, Clavier and Depardieu:



They played together as Asterix and Obelix too. Note the difference, from tall and blond to short and dark. Both are French. Frenchmen look so varied that one wonders how they became a single nation at all.

Depardieu was cast because it is impossible to finance a lavish period drama without him starring in it. Clavier was cast for Napoléon, because he's more resembling of the short Mediterranean type Napoléon was.




Clavier owns a villa in Corsica. It has been occupied by gangs of seperatists twice. So much for playing Napoléon.

Clavier's also a friend of Sarkozy, born in the same part of Paris even, so his villa is now under constant surveillance by an entire army.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As an aside, Depardieu's son is rather more handsome than daddy:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Louis, this is all fair and well, but how does this differ from the rest of Europe? Germany and Italy are both younger than France, both possessing their own centuries-old histories of squabbling boundaries, and no unifying monarch to give the slightest pretense of order. How well did the Ottomans fare with the disorderly Balkans? Perhaps to New Worlders, this is is an alien concept, but the whole of Europe right now is a stockroom of potato sacks. It's gloriously convoluted if you look deep into the pits and crevices of European history, and I surmise that Louis is just striking out at us from across the Atlantic as punishment for our less magnificent past.

This is your past. Part of your past.

What's registered as 'Italian immigrant' in America, is not Italian at all. There are very few Piedmontese, Tuscans in America. Mostly Sicilians and Southern Italians. Your Spanish are mostly Galicians. Immigrants from the British Isles are Irish and Scottish. Frenchmen mostly from Brittany, or the north.
There is always a history why they left, when they left just then. Germans from rural areas left - from those rural areas where the eldest son inherits the farm. But not from those rural areas near early industrialised areas, the younger sons went to work there. Later in the 19th century, German migration shifted to Germans from east of the Elbe. Many left the Prussian millitarism for America.
Migration to the US back then was not different than it is now. In a hundred years time, few will realise their ancestor was a Haitian who left after an earthquake destroyed his home and livelyhood.

Only the Irish seem to remember the 1840s and the famine, remember when they left, when they left, what the circumstances of their emigration were.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Napoleon's transformation from a Corsican into a French Revolutionary:

From Corsican Nationalist to French Revolutionary: Problems of Identity in the Writings of the Young Napoleon, 1785–1793 Philip G. Dwyer1 1 The School of Liberal Arts, University of Newcastle, Australia



As a young man, much of Napoleon's time was spent trying to arrive at an intellectual and emotional understanding of his own life story and of his place in the world. He did so in part by embracing his Corsican cultural heritage, and by identifying with both the Corsican independence movement and its hero, Pasquale Paoli. The advent of the Revolution in Corsica blurred the lines between what it meant to be French and Corsican, but it was not until 1793 that clan politics on the island obliged Napoleon to rethink his cultural and political identity. After having embraced the Corsican cause for so long, he turned his back on it and wholeheartedly supported the French Jacobin cause. This article attempts to put Napoleon's transformation from Corsican nationalist to French revolutionary in a cultural, political and psychological context. It helps to explain not only how Napoleon saw himself in the world, but also how he came to define himself as a cultural and political entity.
http://fh.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/con...tract/16/2/132

Unfortunately, this is the one article in English I can find that describes the importance of Corsican Revolutionary fervour, and Napoléon's transformation from Corsican nationalist to French Revolutionary. Unfortunate, because it requires a subscription.


The Corsican nationalist cause would not end up the only revolution Napoléon would eventualy betray :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasquale_Paoli

[The Wizard]

Well Louis, you're right of course, but didn't all of that stop applying some 60-90 years ago? Somewhere in that timespan (1910-1945) Paris managed to largely stamp out the regional languages, a process begun by Louis Napoleon (or Nappy himself). At least, that's what I've read.

The process was largely artificial, though. Which gives to think. If France was able to create a more or less unified nation out of the proverbial sack of potatoes, why not all these African states?

[Louis VI the Fat]

didn't all of that stop applying some 60-90 years ago? Somewhere in that timespan (1910-1945) Paris managed to largely stamp out the regional languages, a process begun by Louis Napoleon (or Nappy himself).

Y'all work it out.

[gaelic cowboy]

Only the Irish seem to remember the 1840s and the famine, remember when they left, when they left, what the circumstances of their emigration were.

I would guess that it's because of the particular circumstances of the leaving that caused it myself Louis they didnt call them Coffin Ships for nothing you know something like that has a powerful effect on race memory.

[Brenus]

“Paris managed to largely stamp out the regional languages, a process begun by Louis Napoleon (or Nappy himself). At least, that's what I've read.”
I would put the start on the language unification with the levée en masse, the Conscription.
The hundred and thousand who went first in the Revolutionary Army then The the Imperial Army learned the language used by their commanders.
Kallerman (Alsatian) Augereau (Parisian) and Napoleon (Corsican) were able to give orders to their men without translators (which was proved an advantage in Auterlitz, see Austrian and Russian pb).

Then "le coup de grace" to regional languages (patois) was given by the Ecole Gratuite, Obligatoire, Public et Laic of Jules Ferry (free mandatory and laic education (1882).
This was reinforce by the Conscription and the melting pot constituted by the army where Youth Males were sent in the 4 corners of the hexagon, as would have say some journalists, better in clichés than in maths.

[Fisherking]

I don’t think you can say that Bonaparte was not French. He thought of himself as French and fought to extent its influence.

He was to France what Huston & Austin were to Texas. They were not borne there either but calling them anything else goes wide of the mark.


Even if Nappy talked funny he was still French.

[Tristuskhan]

Then "le coup de grace" to regional languages (patois) was given by the Ecole Gratuite, Obligatoire, Public et Laic of Jules Ferry (free mandatory and laic education (1882).

Oh please, don't assimilate Breton, Basque, Corsican or Alsacian languages to "patois", it's just plain insulting*. "Patois" is to be used for local variations of french, that were definitely destroyed by compulsory education. Non-Romanic** languages (alsacian beeing somehow an exception, for obvious reasons) were "doomed" by the huge losses and traumas of WWI. Probably (certainly...) education would have done the job in the long term, but WWI was an incredible boost to the process.


*("is just plain insulting, parisian scum!")
**yeah, Corsican is romanic, nevermind, you see my point.

Edit: and the school is Publique et Laïque, not Public et Laïc, my friend (or is it your patois that makes "école" a masculine word?)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ha te, Tristus Tristérix, komz a rez brezhoneg? In daily life? To all the criticism of the onslaught on Breton, the usual rebuttal: how much is left of Celtic in the British Isles then?


Also, Brenus sounds Jurassien, not Parigot. More importantly, not patois, but English is undermining his French. It's deteriorating into franglais! See, this is why Toubon was right.
His oppressive imperialist English keyboard gives him tremendous trouble with his accents, so they are allways absent: Grâce, École, Laïque. The requirement to translate the sentence into English made Brenus mentally translate the phrase in his head already. It's not the masculine form, it's Englais that took over. That made him switch from French to Franglais to English midsentence.

Somewhat cool, really.

...if only it wouldn't tell of the inevitable demise of French into a patois like Breton.

[Brenus]

“École”: No accent on a majuscule, d’abord, except for Québecois…

Then, no bad for Jurassien, not far, but La Dombes is better even if when I came to this life it was Les Dombes…
Grand Mother was a Jurassienne.

“It's not the masculine form, it's Englais that took over.” Unfortunately true.
I even speak to myself (schizophrenia under control) in English. I even dream in English… I am alone, as René Mouchotte above the Channel that I refuse to call English…
Mind you I even dream in Serbian, or perhaps in Croatian.

[TinCow]

What's registered as 'Italian immigrant' in America, is not Italian at all. There are very few Piedmontese, Tuscans in America. Mostly Sicilians and Southern Italians. Your Spanish are mostly Galicians. Immigrants from the British Isles are Irish and Scottish. Frenchmen mostly from Brittany, or the north.
There is always a history why they left, when they left just then. Germans from rural areas left - from those rural areas where the eldest son inherits the farm. But not from those rural areas near early industrialised areas, the younger sons went to work there. Later in the 19th century, German migration shifted to Germans from east of the Elbe. Many left the Prussian millitarism for America.
Migration to the US back then was not different than it is now. In a hundred years time, few will realise their ancestor was a Haitian who left after an earthquake destroyed his home and livelyhood.

Only the Irish seem to remember the 1840s and the famine, remember when they left, when they left, what the circumstances of their emigration were.

If you're talking about immigrants who went to America, you could not be more incorrect. Cultural identities and traditions are very strong here and specific regional traditions from small areas of Germany, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, Korea, Japan, China, etc. are all observed here on a regular basis by people who know exactly where their families come from. In fact, I don't know a single American who doesn't know what country their family originated in and have some personal cultural affiliation to that origin.

[Louis VI the Fat]

“École”: No accent on a majuscule, d’abord, except for Québecois…

On ne peut que déplorer que l'usage des accents sur les majuscules soit flottant. On observe dans les textes manuscrits une tendance certaine à l'omission des accents. En typographie, parfois, certains suppriment tous les accents sur les capitales sous prétexte de modernisme, en fait pour réduire les frais de composition.

Il convient cependant d'observer qu'en français, l'accent a pleine valeur orthographique. Son absence ralentit la lecture, fait hésiter sur la prononciation, et peut même induire en erreur. Il en va de même pour le tréma et la cédille.

On veille donc, en bonne typographie, à utiliser systématiquement les capitales accentuées, y compris la préposition À, comme le font bien sûr tous les dictionnaires, à commencer par le Dictionnaire de l'Académie française, ou les grammaires, comme Le Bon Usage de Grevisse, mais aussi l'Imprimerie nationale, la Bibliothèque de la Pléiade, etc. Quant aux textes manuscrits ou dactylographiés, il est évident que leurs auteurs, dans un souci de clarté et de correction, auraient tout intérêt à suivre également cette règle.

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/lan...l#accentuation

Then, no bad for Jurassien, not far, but La Dombes is better even if when I came to this life it was Les Dombes…
Grand Mother was a Jurassienne.

I pinned you down to within 50 kilometers.
I've never been to La/les Dombes. One day etc...

Then again, I mistook Meneldil for a Toulousain.



Tristuskhan is obviously from Roazhon / Rennes. Urban Breton, dreaming of the ancient forests of Bretagne, teeming with life, with a life of their own, the trees whispering to you in half-forgotten tongues...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Another lost world in France, the Brocéliande forest, home of Celtic mysticism, of legend, of pre-Christian rites performed in ancient languages:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you're talking about immigrants who went to America, you could not be more incorrect. Cultural identities and traditions are very strong here and specific regional traditions from small areas of Germany, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, Korea, Japan, China, etc. are all observed here on a regular basis by people who know exactly where their families come from. In fact, I don't know a single American who doesn't know what country their family originated in and have some personal cultural affiliation to that origin.

Hrmph, you learn something new every day.

I always had the impression Americans are very aware of their families homeland, but had little identity beyond that. That is, there are German Americans, but not Hannoverian/Silesian/-Americans.
Should make for an interesting Backroom topic, including a little poll.

[TinCow]

I always had the impression Americans are very aware of their families homeland, but had little identity beyond that. That is, there are German Americans, but not Hannoverian/Silesian/-Americans.
Should make for an interesting Backroom topic, including a little poll.

Not always, certainly, but regularly. I would also say that it depends on where inside the country a person was from. I would say that German-Americans are not likely to know which specific part of Germany that they are from, same with France and England. However, I would expect Italian-Americans, new-arrival African Americans, Chinese-Americans, Indian-Americans, etc. to be aware. In addition, many Americans who are unaware of their specific provincial origin may nevertheless still continue on provincial cultural traditions though local holidays and cooking trends. One of the reasons for this is that when people immigrated to the US, they tended to settle in groups with their fellow ex-pats. You can generally pick any state or city in the US and list a dozen or more specific cultural groups that have flourished there.

[Kagemusha]

I somehow enjoy reading this thread immensely. Thank you guys for sharing things witht the rest of us that ive known nothing about before.

[Meneldil]

If you're talking about immigrants who went to America, you could not be more incorrect. Cultural identities and traditions are very strong here and specific regional traditions from small areas of Germany, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, Korea, Japan, China, etc. are all observed here on a regular basis by people who know exactly where their families come from. In fact, I don't know a single American who doesn't know what country their family originated in and have some personal cultural affiliation to that origin.

I actually find all this retard, if you excuse the language.

I've studied in Canada for 1 year, traveled around in Ontario, visited New-England and stayed almost two weeks in New-York, and I've grown tired of all these people who label themselves as "Italian", "German", "Ukrainian", "Russian", "Irish", "British".
Most of them can't even properly point to said country on a map, don't speak a single word of "their country" language, don't have a clue about what the culture of Germany, Italy, Ireland or Russia is. Yet, they keep mentioning it every 10 minutes, like a buzz-word used to make them look cool. Ridiculous.

I remember a discussion I had at a bar someday. Some Canadian girl of chinese origins stated that she was Canadian, and not Chinese. Some other dude here got mad, told her she was Chinese before being Canadian, much as he was "Italian before being Canadian". He got really anal about it. Too bad the italian people I studied with kept making fun of his self-proclaimed italian-ness. He indeed couldn't speak a single italian world, and the only things he knew about Italian culture were "Pizza", "Cheese and Wine" and acting like a Guido-wannabe.

From an european perspective, it indeed looks stupid. I mean, I can understand Natives, Japanese, Chinese, Latinos, Haitians or even French-canadians. All those belong to "oppressed minorities", or have to deal with racism, or arrived in North America only lately. But man, if your family arrived in the US a century ago, if you can't speak italian and if don't know where Italy is on a map either, then you're not italian. Get over it.

Similarly, most people assumed I was a french-canadian when I introduced myself as a french. Newsflash, french-canadians aren't french, despite all their attempts to present themselves as such. They're canadians who speak french, whether they like it or not. What was even more sad was the way many french canadians idealize France as the new Israel (that is not true for Québecers though), as the promised land that should support their fight against the evil-anglo saxon imperialism. In Ontario, introducing you as a french immediately makes you a left wing radical.
Most people belonging to leftist student associations think of themselves as french, even if they hardly speak a single french word. Similarly, presenting you as a french likely means you're a leftist.

It feels like north americans indeed have an historical inferiority complex, and feel the need to belong to another national identity group. I know I was puzzled by this behaviors, and so were most of my foreign student friends, whether they came from Europe or from Asia.

Edit: Thinking about it, it's quite similar to the way many people whose parents came from Northern Africa label themselves as "Moroccan", "Algerian" or "Tunisian". They've never been there, hardly speak the language, and are frowned upon if not openly disliked by their supposed maghrebi country mates.
What causes this, I don't know. I would be interested to read any study or book about this will to identify to a foreign group, to a distant country.

[TinCow]

I actually find all this retard, if you excuse the language.

Needless to say, countries like the US, Canada, and Australia are made up almost entirely by immigrants. Since almost none of our families originated here, we have a different perspective on cultural diversity than elsewhere. I am thus not surprised to find this mentality amongst Europeans. In Europe, those who do not abandon their old cultural traditions and integrate into the national society are often criticized. In immigrant nations, the separate cultures are celebrated and maintained. It's simply a reality of how our nations were formed.

I'm happy to debate this further, but I agree with Louis that this is moving into strong Backroom territory and should be split off into a separate discussion.

[miotas]

Needless to say, countries like the US, Canada, and Australia are made up almost entirely by immigrants. Since almost none of our families originated here, we have a different perspective on cultural diversity than elsewhere. I am thus not surprised to find this mentality amongst Europeans. In Europe, those who do not abandon their old cultural traditions and integrate into the national society are often criticized. In immigrant nations, the separate cultures are celebrated and maintained. It's simply a reality of how our nations were formed.

Despite living in an "immigration nation" I also share Meneldil's annoyance. In Australia you would be more likely to hear people say that their parents or grandparents were Irish, English, Italian etc rather than themselves. Their cultural individuality is often maintained and encouraged, but they are Australian rather than (x) country.

[Strike For The South]

I really have no cultural affinty for England, this is an American who could care less about all that stuff.

I really think it matters how long you've been here, my family came from portsmouth in the 1600s. we've been in America probably longer than some of you Europeans have been in your countries. Most people who consider themselves "American" (myself included) are mostly of French huegonet, English, and Scots-Irish stock.


I don't care about yorkshire pudding, I care about apple pie but most of my friends families came here about 8 generations after mine did. I wonder how much affintiy my family had 8 generations ago....

[TinCow]

I really think it matters how long you've been here, my family came from portsmouth in the 1600s. we've been in America probably longer than some of you Europeans have been in your countries.

I think that's certainly correct. The fewer generations that your family have been in 'new' country, the stronger your cultural ties to the old country. That would explain why there is almost no cultural affinity in the US for England of any kind, while cultural identity is moderately strong amongst Irish, Italians, Poles, and Chinese, and extremely strong amongst Latinos, Koreans, Vietnamese, and Russians.

[Brenus]

“French Huguenot”: Er, no. The French Huguenots fleeing Louis XIV persecution and the Revocation of the Edit de Nantes (October, 18th, 1685) emigrate to Berlin, London, Geneva, Amsterdam or even to The Cape in South Africa. Few of them went to the English Controlled American Territory.
Emigration to America was developed very late in France. The French went to trade of Furs. When the need of peasants was recognised, Louis XIV sent population following the feudal system, so "volunteers" came from mainly Normandy and Brittany.
Girls was sent in supplement known as les filles du Roi, were prostitutes and orphan, most of the time both...
We can compare the 80,000 French in the nouvelle France with the 1.500.000 English in the 13 Colonies (18th Century).

[Meneldil]

Say that to Paul Revere :D

[Strike For The South]

“French Huguenot”: Er, no. The French Huguenots fleeing Louis XIV persecution and the Revocation of the Edit de Nantes (October, 18th, 1685) emigrate to Berlin, London, Geneva, Amsterdam or even to The Cape in South Africa. Few of them went to the English Controlled American Territory.
Emigration to America was developed very late in France. The French went to trade of Furs. When the need of peasants was recognised, Louis XIV sent population following the feudal system, so "volunteers" came from mainly Normandy and Brittany.
Girls was sent in supplement known as les filles du Roi, were prostitutes and orphan, most of the time both...
We can compare the 80,000 French in the nouvelle France with the 1.500.000 English in the 13 Colonies (18th Century).

The colonies of South Carolina and Geroiga had a very strong Huegonet prescence. I use them because the quickly shook off the French while the cajuns still think there in Paris is in the bayou

[The Wizard]

“Paris managed to largely stamp out the regional languages, a process begun by Louis Napoleon (or Nappy himself). At least, that's what I've read.”
I would put the start on the language unification with the levée en masse, the Conscription.
The hundred and thousand who went first in the Revolutionary Army then The the Imperial Army learned the language used by their commanders.
Kallerman (Alsatian) Augereau (Parisian) and Napoleon (Corsican) were able to give orders to their men without translators (which was proved an advantage in Auterlitz, see Austrian and Russian pb).

Then "le coup de grace" to regional languages (patois) was given by the Ecole Gratuite, Obligatoire, Public et Laic of Jules Ferry (free mandatory and laic education (1882).
This was reinforce by the Conscription and the melting pot constituted by the army where Youth Males were sent in the 4 corners of the hexagon, as would have say some journalists, better in clichés than in maths.

I was looking for that word while writing my earlier post... isn't "patois" a slur, of sorts, used by Parisians to denigrate the regional languages? The way Occitan is "patois" yet has a longer intellectual, written history than French...

That's just my next question, though. Thanks for the answer to my previous one

EDIT: I think tristukhan may have already answered my question.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Cool thread. I had gotten a shade of the French situation from Europa Universalis 3, but I didn't realize that the French nation coalesced so (comparatively) recently nor did I know about the languages stuff.

I'm sorry to hear that our habit of identifying each other by distant ancestors bothers you, Meneldil. :P I was asked recently "what are you?" and responded "I'm from [my home town]" - which got a laugh and a second question - "no, but where are you parents or whatever from?" It's interesting that we think this way. I think part of it (for at least some people) is that their ancestors how came over worked hard to integrate and become like everyone else. So my great grandfather Frederick came over from Germany (I think somewhere in the south or Saxony?) to dodge conscription, but my grandpa you couldn't tell was actually from German or anything. He may have learned a little German (and one of the closest connections we have to Germany is every generation so far has had someone learn a little high school German :P) but he was an American like everyone else, served in the Navy in WW2. Not having a real cultural connection to Germany makes knowing the little details that much more exciting, and the more little details you have the more bragging you can do. :D There may be some people who take it too far (your Italian example, though maybe he was just drunk :P) but when people say they're Italian, or German, or whatever, I don't think they mean nationally the way you or Louis say you're French.

And it may vary by ancestry (as the Irish are probably different than the Germans because the latter had to keep their heads down due to the two World Wars, among other things).

And beautiful photos, Louis.

[Brenus]

“The way Occitan is "patois" yet has a longer intellectual, written history than French...” Yes and no. Occitan is part of French. It is not 2 different languages, but Occitant participated in the building of Modern French.
It is like if you claim that the Gauls or the Franks had a longer History than the French.

Like populations, languages have history and are the product of mixtures, melting pots, influences, fashion, and books.