Page 43 of 43 FirstFirst ... 333940414243
Results 1,261 to 1,286 of 1286

Thread: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

  1. #1261
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    On a pirate ship
    Posts
    12,544
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    While we wait for the commentary, here's an essay for you all to chew on. This is my standard "state of the Gameroom" essay that I do after all of my games, and luckily this only happens once every few months so you don't get a chance to be subject to my blathering too often. This one's about a subject close to my heart.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I’ll discuss this more in my commentary, but it’s worth pointing out again that I had not hosted a game in my Mafia series since June 2008, an almost two-year break. In that time, a lot about the Gameroom has changed. There’s been an almost complete turnover of the regulars since then, for one thing. For an old dinosaur like me, it’s pretty startling when the majority of the players don’t have any connection with a series with as much history to it as Mafia does. This saddens me a little bit for a couple of reasons. One, I happen to like vanilla games. It’s how I made my bones in the Gameroom and a lot of my best memories here come from vanilla games. Two, nobody seems to be picking up where I leave off, for reasons that I’ll explain later. Three, as we have demonstrated here, as well as in Godfather 3, vanilla games are a great way to improve your play on both sides. In this essay, I’ll describe how we got here and what this means for the Gameroom.

    Back in the beginning (2006), the great majority of the games hosted were either vanilla or very close to it. This was the case for a couple of reasons. First of all, there was either no queue or very few willing hosts. As a result, you had me hosting five large games in a five-to-six month period. There really wasn’t enough demand for the kind of games we see nowadays. Secondly, the very first non-vanilla game, “Gotta Have More Mafia” had a ton of roles and, while entertaining, was widely seen as confusing and not really worth it when you already had the simple-but-effective setup of the vanilla games. By that point, there had already been what I consider the first truly “great” game of the Gameroom: Mafia III. It was that game which made me finally realize that this thing wasn’t going to be just a flash in the pan. Why bother overly exerting yourself as a host when enough drama can come from the simple setups?

    As a result, when hosts did opt for more elaborate setups, it was usually in moderation. The greatest example of this was Silver Rusher’s Godfather series. Designed to be a bridge between my vanilla Mafia series and the more role-intensive Gotta Have More Mafia, “The Godfather” was widely seen as a success and its sequel, Godfather 2, is still my favorite game I’ve ever been a player in. It’s worthy to note that “The Godfather” series is now considered vanilla.

    As the Gameroom received more traffic and there were more players willing to try their hand at hosting, they all wanted to occupy their own special niches. The “vanilla” niche, my niche, was already occupied, and so everyone else went for more role-heavy games. Another side effect of the Gameroom’s growth was that, because of the queue, I got to host less, thus providing less opportunity to continue the vanilla tradition.

    2007 saw the first installment Seamus Fermanagh’s Capo di Tutti Capi series, the hallmarks of which were a wide variety of roles and the fact that every player now had something to do every night phase, as opposed to just waiting out the nights to see if they had survived. Capo I shattered all kinds of participation records and brought in a huge amount of players and interest into the Gameroom. I hosted Mafia VI immediately afterwards, but after that, I was not able to host for several months, by far the longest I’d ever had to wait.

    After Mafia VII, in the fall of 2007, I took some time off from the Gameroom due to overload, participating in very few games. In the meantime, traffic continued to grow. Sigurd’s Midgard Saga premiered, another very role-heavy game that drew a lot of interest. By the time I returned, Capo II started and was immediately followed up by Netherworld Mafia. By now the waits on the Queue were long enough where most hosts were putting a lot of work into their games, trying to tweak it so everything was exactly right. They had more time to put in a lot of roles and still make sure everything was balanced, in short. When Mafia VIII came around, I had not hosted in about nine months.

    As we approach the present day, I need to say less. Role-heavy games were still prevalent. Activity exploded in early 2009 with a string of excellent games. After a failed attempt at hosting Pirate Ship Mafia, I decided to try my hand at resurrecting the Godfather series, eschewing Mafia IX. After that, we had The Settlement, Inishmore, Rubicon, and Capo III. Then I did Pirate Ship Mafia, successfully this time. And thus, the nine-month break between Mafias VII and VIII became a twenty-month break between VIII and IX.

    Again, due to niches and the Gameroom’s new preference for having something to do at night, there were really no vanilla games in that long gap. Everyone else figured that was my niche, and I personally wanted to break out of my niche and try other things as well after three years and eight games of doing the exact same thing.

    So, coming back to March and April of 2010, we had almost a vacuum of sorts. Out of the 34 players signed up for Mafia IX, only 14 had played in a previous game in the Mafia series. A handful more played in Godfather 3. During a conversation I had with one of the new players, that player informed that, while they were personally very excited and intrigued about the game, at least one other didn’t really see how the mafia could ever be caught without any pro-town roles being present. At first, I despaired, wondering if natural progress had left my beloved series in the evolutionary dustbin, but then I realized that this was exactly what I wanted. By way of this game being around, I could hopefully teach the nonbelievers about the value of vanilla games; educate them on the perks of analysis and give them the benefit of dramatic endgames like had been done in games past.

    I think that’s been done, for the most part. While the endgame wasn’t quite on the level as it was in the past, Subotan eventually met his doom due to good townie behavior: taking the initiative, doing your own in-thread detective work. The town had to sink or swim, and they decided to swim. It’s my hope that the players here will see that they’re not handicapped by the pro-town roles and they have not just a hope, but a very good chance, of catching the mafia if they put their minds to it.

    In an ideal world, there would be one vanilla game every couple of months or so in order to keep the players’ instincts sharp and to allow new blood to experience one fairly on in their Gameroom experiences. However, I know those days are long gone. It’s still my niche, even though it was the first time I had hosted one in three games and my next game will also be role-intensive. I guess it will always be my niche.

    Therefore, it’s up to everybody to look to this game, as well as the other vanilla games in the past, as an example of how to be a good player. Otherwise, the town’s crutch of pro-town roles will just grow heavier and heavier, and nobody will be able to fathom even playing a vanilla mafia game out of fear that it’s unwinnable. And, aside from the meta implications of this, it would also simply be a crying shame.
    Last edited by GeneralHankerchief; 04-08-2010 at 23:46.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  2. #1262
    Member Member atheotes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    metaphysical Utopia...
    Posts
    2,914

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
    Night 2 kills. Sorry atheotes and Double A!
    Dont worry... i got you back first night in Shakespearean mafia...

    Good game town

  3. #1263
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,352

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Nice essay. :)

    Honestly, if I could host any games at all I would quite happily join you in your niche. I love vanilla games. My own concern at the outset of yours was two-fold: the number of mafia roles being so small, and the lack of death reveals that removes some of the possible analysis that could otherwise be done. I'm a believer now, though; I think it worked out quite well. (Even though if I could ever run something like this myself, I would most likely have death reveals!)

    Vanilla games and mini-games, both of which I love as much as all but the very best role-intensive games, share the quality that if the town *as a whole* doesn't work for the win, they won't win. Both require close attention, and looking for the motivations behind words. Both require bold moves and leaps of faith in ways that role-heavy games don't necessarily. (Even mini-games with roles tend to share these qualities by virtue of them being so short. There's just not the time for pro-town roles to have the impact they do in larger games. The regular townies can't afford to wait for them.) This is what makes them so much fun for me to play.

    (I can't host because I could never commit to the schedule. Me doing a write-up on a weekend? Hahahahahaha. But I would certainly play in more games like this if someone did offer them.)

  4. #1264
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    13,729

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    The way I see it, vanilla mafia is like chess: the true master's game. It is entirely based in skill, with no luck involved whatsoever. To win is to prove oneself a great player.

    That said, I don't always want to play chess. I often like to shoot people with big guns or conquer to world; preferably both at once.


  5. #1265

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    The great thing about the vanilla games (and you are correct GH, the godfather series is now considered vanilla!) is that they build. Start kind of slow, end very intensely. The many role games have a hugely enjoyable hectic crazy midgame, but almost always peter out in some way.

    The lack of role reveal is essential for vanilla I think. That's a very powerful tool for the town.

  6. #1266
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,352

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    You mean role reveal is powerful for town? If so, yes I agree. And that's why the game is workable with just two mafia without role reveal. In the games I've played elsewhere that do have role reveal, much larger numbers of mafia is typical. At a guess I'd probably put 7 or so mafia in a 35 player vanilla game with role reveal and private communication.

  7. #1267
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,352

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Whoops, I should clarify, that's at a kill rate of one per night, not two.

  8. #1268
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Awesome!

    I think Subo would have got off scott free if it weren't for our pm exchange in the Shadow Fort. He acted like he had no idea who reenk was and didn't know who the noble was and had me running in circles for a day or so before I put the loose ends together.

    So his very genuine/careless tone and sincere sounding defenses left me unmoved.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Revenge is mine!
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  9. #1269

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Revenge is mine!
    Haha, what's this in reference to?

  10. #1270
    The Bad Doctor Senior Member Chaotix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,167

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    I think probably the fact that he got N1 killed again.
    Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom

  11. #1271
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,352

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Subotan killed him on Night One, and it was his Shadow Fort game that brought down Subotan. Poetic justice. :)

  12. #1272
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Subotan killed him on Night One, and it was his Shadow Fort game that brought down Subotan. Poetic justice. :)
    Indeed.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  13. #1273
    2 cute to execute Member Joooray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Big Bad Bonn
    Posts
    962

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Man, totally forgot that this one has ended already.
    Even though this thread is already on it's way to it's well deserved grave, I'll have to thank GH for hosting this. It has been quite an experience to be part of such a big vanilla mafia and additionally take part in a Gameroom tradition.
    Thank you.

    Supreme Victory, The Shadow Fort
    © Crazed Rabbit

  14. #1274
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    25,826

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    I am still anxious for GH's postgame commentary.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  15. #1275
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    On a pirate ship
    Posts
    12,544
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    It's been a rough weekend here. I'm aiming to start it tonight and finish it by sometime tomorrow.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  16. #1276
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In my own skin.
    Posts
    13,208

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    The great thing about the vanilla games (and you are correct GH, the godfather series is now considered vanilla!) is that they build. Start kind of slow, end very intensely. The many role games have a hugely enjoyable hectic crazy midgame, but almost always peter out in some way.

    The lack of role reveal is essential for vanilla I think. That's a very powerful tool for the town.
    Anyone looking forward to a more vanilla game, should join Daggers in the night, which will basically be a Godfather game, but with vampires and vampire hunters. I'll be using the Godfather mechanic and, as in the Godfather series, there will be a twist.

    Sign-ups aren't open yet, but the OP with the prologue of the story and the explanation of the rules is ready. Make sure to keep an eye on the thread, as the game will be capped to 40 players, so you'll have to be quick! [/shameless advertising].
    Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy

    Ja mata, TosaInu

  17. #1277
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    On a pirate ship
    Posts
    12,544
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia

    Just letting you guys know I haven't forgotten about the commentary. It's been a rough week IRL for me and today was the first chance I've had to work on it. In any case, the commentary in question is officially half done.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  18. #1278
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    On a pirate ship
    Posts
    12,544
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    Better late than never: The official Mafia IX commentary!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Game Start

    Mafia: Chaotix and Subotan

    It felt a little weird again hosting Mafia after all this time. For once, I didn’t have to look to other games for inspiration or rules clarifications. The game I was hosting was truly mine. And, like riding a bike for the first time after a long, cold, dark winter, it felt good.

    Still though, too much time had passed since Mafia VIII to be entirely the same. The Gameroom had evolved; maybe it matured, maybe not, but it definitely evolved. The players’ connection to the First Golden Age of Mafia, late 2006 to early 2007 (the second one being Spring to Fall of 2009), was all but gone. My primary goal for this game was to provide all of the new blood a link to the past, to see the game played in its purest form. Hopefully, this would entail the formulas that I had been extraordinarily lucky with in the past: Excellent mafiosi and a slow buildup of action leading up to a truly dramatic endgame.

    As far as the first part of the formula, random.org served me well. Chaotix had been a Gameroom mainstay for a while now and was a solid, consistent player. Subotan was a bit newer, bursting onto the scene as one of the Four Horsemen in Pirate Ship Mafia and showing a lot of promise in general. He was using that experience to create a game of his own (which I eagerly look forward to taking part) in June, but for now he would have to use an entirely skill set to get through this one unscathed.

    As for the other players, I noted with pleasure that a lot of old and new friends had signed up. Especially pleasing were the additions of Kagemusha and Crazed Rabbit, the only two Orgahs to take part in every single Mafia game and, perhaps coincidentally, the only two to survive and win as mafiosi. All in all, we had 34 players, which I consider an accomplishment considering this game took place alongside the mammoth that was CR’s The Shadow Fort.

    After I sent my customary PM to the mafia (as well as one to the townies, which prompted a PM from an unsuspecting Reenk Roink that said he had gotten his hopes up for nothing since I never used to send townie PMs ) I waited for the mafia to send in their kills and we were ready to go.

    Day 1

    Subotan kills Crazed Rabbit
    Chaotix “kills” Andres

    The game stumbled out of the gate a bit when I received a PM from spL1tp3r50naL1ty informing me that a nasty storm had knocked the power out of Chaotix’s house and that he wasn’t sure when he’d get it back. Cursing to myself, I had flashbacks to khaan’s sudden disappearance in Mafia VIII and my mind was already racing, wondering what to do in the case of me needing to WoG Chaotix so early in the game. However, the worrying was all for naught. Chaotix PM’d me during the round saying he was back and Subotan was able to fill in nicely before anybody got suspicious about why I was late with the first kills.

    All in all, Subotan’s targets for the round were pretty high-profile, though his reasoning for taking CR out was to give him more time to host Shadow Fort. The gamble paid off, as neither victim was very active during the game.

    A subplot of this game was the new Frontroom Chief of Police’s baptism by fire, of sorts. The old Frontroom mod Beirut had filled the NPC role for the previous eight games in the series but hung up his robes sometime after Mafia VIII had concluded. After I had obtained permission from Lemur to take up Beirut’s old mantle, I wrote what I hoped was a nice little homage/transition scene in the traditional space after the kills.

    Once the actual round started, Csargo got things going in high fashion by lodging his standard Sasaki vote, the first of many that Sasaki would receive in this game (but never enough to actually lynch him). However, one post later, Yaseikhaan began a ridiculous bandwagon on Diamondeye that quickly picked up steam probably because it was a) Round 1, and b) the most forceful opinion anyone had lodged in the entire round, even though, in typical khaan style, there was absolutely no reasoning.

    In other votes, more were thrown around in several directions, as per standard, and Reenk brought back an old favorite: The courteous abstention. There was also a small backlash against khaan, and Renata would pick up a lot of votes near the end once Diamondeye logged on and defended himself against khaan’s weirdness. However, he ended up being one vote short.

    Executed: Diamondeye

    Day 2

    Chaotix kills atheotes
    Subotan kills Double A

    This round was an absolute dagger for the mafia that started off poorly for them and ended up worse. Chaotix’s kill of atheotes was an interesting choice, due to the popular conception that “atheotes is always mafia”. I personally had atheotes pegged as a midgame lynch myself. In addition, he used the classic “sniper kill” on atheotes, although that thing’s now been used so much that any WIFOM value is probably gone.

    Things started ramping up in the second post after the round, where khaan’s daily bandwagon target was Subotan. Chaotix, probably wary that it was this exact strategy that had gotten Diamondeye the last round and that Subotan was now subject to the same fate, attacked khaan with this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
    Vote: khaan

    We do NOT need another runaway bandwagon this round. Last time was forgivable since it was Day 1... but let's not continue that tradition longer than it needs to go.

    I say, since there's absolutely nothing else to go on, we start voting by good old behavioral analysis. And I think we are due an explanation from our new eager bandwagon-starter, khaan. Pressure vote for now.
    This post was in poor form for a couple of reasons. First of all, it was lodged very early on in the phase, before Chaotix had a chance to gauge town reaction to the continuance of khaan’s strategy. Second, it was far too serious for the still-goofy early game. Had Chaotix sat back and waited, he might have seen a more natural bandwagon on khaan emerge and thus a threat be removed (indeed, Sasaki had already voted for him one post prior, and the only vote on Subotan at that point was khaan’s own).

    I believe that Chaotix became a victim of the classic “overly paranoid mafioso” disease that’s hit all of us from time to time (even me) where you tend to overreact to and overanalyze every perceived threat, real or not. He immediately got into trouble over use of his wording and it just went downhill from there, as his defense and general behavior was far too serious for that point in the game.

    A final effort to save himself and switch the vote to Methos was not enough for the mafioso. Yes, Chaotix had spared his partner from the wrath of khaan, but at the cost of his own life. Subotan would now have to make Mafia history and fly solo for probably eight rounds in order to win the game. To put this feat into a bit of perspective, the only mafioso to ever survive more than one round than his partner was Crazed Rabbit, and that was because he had decided to discard The Truth in order to win.

    All in all, I think Lemur said it best during Chaotix’s lynch write-up:

    ”Should have kept his mouth shut.”
    Executed: Chaotix

    Day 3

    Subotan kills Centurion1 and Csargo

    This entire round was khaan’s last hurrah. After two rounds of being the center of the action, people were finally tired of his antics and, without an odd, overly-serious backlash to distract them, the town was ready to silence him. khaan, for his part, couldn’t really care that much as his school, the University of Northern Iowa, had just delivered Kansas one of the biggest March Madness upsets of all time.

    In other news, during this round a couple of allegations were pointed towards a couple different forum members apparently due to the content of the write-ups. However, they were all off, because I was writing every word in this game save for Subotan’s nightly weapon choices.

    This round marked the transition from the goofy beginning game to the long slog of the midgame, where the lynches would be to whittle down the suspects list more than anything else. The transition from the midgame to the endgame varies from game to game, but I usually do it when the player list is at either 10 or in the single digits, in which case there would be three rounds left regardless of the outcome. Here, this would make the midgame last a whopping five rounds.

    All things considered, the town’s lynch for this round was probably a good choice as they got to move on from endless khaan bandwagon drama. khaan was the runaway lynch this round, with Subotan jumping on the bandwagon for once to get revenge for Chaotix, and I got to flex a bit of creative muscle with probably my favorite lynch scene I’ve ever written.

    Executed: Yaseikhaan

    Day 4

    Subotan kills Winston Hughes and johnhughthom

    With Winston’s death began the “door-to-door mafioso’s” string of kills framing Askthepizzaguy. Interestingly enough, I didn’t originally see the ATPG connection until it was pointed out in the thread by ATPG himself. A quick PM conversation with Subotan said that he didn’t mean it that way either, but he would soon piggyback off all of the WIFOM and continue gunning for ATPG in the writeup right until the very end.

    With the advent of the midgame, the lurkers began to be targeted, first up being Sigurd and Cultured Drizzt fan. General sentiment was that CDF had disappeared .Orgwide and wasn’t deliberately avoiding the game, therefore the town would leave CDF to his fate. Sigurd, however, was a different matter. After making the most blatant “I’m around, don’t WoG me” post I had ever seen:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    vote: Beskar

    bla bla bla bla bla...

    Happy?
    …the votes began to pile up, and thus Sigurd’s onetime “lurker victory” performance in Chicago Soirée from well over a year ago was invoked yet again. Sigurd, beyond fed up with catch-all excuse to lynch him, took umbrage to this and carefully explained why the “Soirée justification” was becoming tiresome (for future reference, he was mafia in a disproportionate amount of games in that time period and thus had to lurk in one of them, and it had also happened a grand total of one time and thus wasn’t fair to hang over his head for the rest of eternity), but it was really a doomed effort and everybody knew it.

    Town doctrine in the midgame, especially early on in the midgame, is to get rid of the lurkers, and Sigurd was far and away the chief lurker of Mafia IX (exempting CDF). This was ultimately shown in the tallies, as Sigurd beat out the nonlurkers Sasaki and eventually Ibn-Khaldun in a tiebreaker to get the chop.

    Executed: Sigurd

    Day 5

    Subotan kills spL1tp3r50naL1ty and White_eyes:D

    I quite liked the kill I wrote up for White_eyes, which made me a bit disappointed when WE blasted it in the thread. As has been pointed out, the only thing the mafia did when sending me the kills was give me the final weapon to be used. Everything before that was totally at my discretion. Therefore, when some of the weapons used got really outlandish, I had to be a little bit creative to arrive at that final kill. The White_eyes kill was the greatest example of this.

    Subotan informed me that WE would be devoured by a swarm of snapping turtles. Upon writing the kill, the first challenge that I had to overcome was that White_eyes would have to be first put into a position to be devoured by the turtles, since turtles are not known to be the greatest of predators. I decided that this would be best met if WE had a paralyzing agent in his system at the time of the attack. Of course now, the next challenge was the origin of that paralyzing agent. After a bit of a thought, the origin story would be that White_eyes had to call in a doctor or someone he trusted because he had a weird disease (I picked Dutch elm disease for personal reasons). Then of course, I had to think up a reason why White_eyes would have that disease in the first place, and thus came the backstory of the mafioso secretly injecting him with it in a prior voting session. All in all, from snapping turtles, I worked backward, got all the details to fit in nicely, and came up with a (mostly) satisfying kill.

    (As a side note: It’s interesting to note the Gameroom’s evolution when it comes to analysis of the kill write-ups. If this were in years past, I’m sure the town would have been hung up on Pancuronium, trying to figure out who among them would have a knowledge of medical drugs. Better for the players in the long run, perhaps, but far less amusing from a host’s perspective.)

    In terms of the actual in-game events from the round, it was the standard midpoint bad lynch. Votes were really thrown around haphazardly; ATPG had a minor bandwagon going on him in what was probably the mafia’s high-water mark in their repeated attempts to frame him. Methos got a couple of votes, prophesying his fate later on in the game, and Sasaki’s attack on [B]Secura[B]’s lack of commitment to voting garnered her some suspicion as well. Subotan, exhibiting his game’s trademark of avoiding bandwagons like the plague, went the other way and voted Reenk. Finally, Subotan himself gained two votes from the bloc of Sasaki and TinCow.

    However, the round’s “winner” was shlin28, who was executed with a whopping three votes, one of them being his own. In an interesting bit of trivia, shlin was also lynched around this point in the game in Godfather with a similar lack of reasoning.

    Executed: shlin28

    Day 6

    Subotan “kills” Secura and Beskar

    The architect of these two kills was actually Chaotix, stepping in for a temporarily AWOL Subotan. Subotan later returned and approved of the kills and their methods however, so unlike in Mafia VIII there won’t be endless speculation of how things would have turned out if Subotan himself was around. In any case, I was glad Chaotix was still helping his team out so long after his own demise.

    This round was also the first appearance of the mad cow Bessie, which is probably one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever written and also one of the things I’m most proud of in this game. Bessie would provide endless amusement for me after I realized the door-to-door killer would continue killing with only pizza-related items.

    The early target of the round was Kagemusha, who was once again going deep into the game, seemingly immune from death due to the Curse. ATPG and TinCow also received a lot of votes. All in all, we had a pretty factionalized round at this point in the game, probably due to backlash from shlin’s lynch the day before.

    The factionalization gave way to the round’s main argument: Kage leading the backlash against the game’s “power trio” of Sasaki, TinCow, and ATPG voting in the same way. This particular argument had a lot of metagame aspects in it, which meant I was more naturally attracted to it and followed it more closely than I normally would have. Basically, Kage was chastising the three for apparently discouraging the rest of the town from thinking for itself, while ATPG was defending himself by saying that it was just a one-time strategy. In the end, both sides had their merits and I’ll refrain from further comment on the matter, though if you held a gun to my head I’d probably take Kage’s side.

    The major side effect of the argument, though, was that Kage’s position convinced Sasaki that he was innocent and thus once again the old survivor lived to fight another day. Instead, the new wagon was directed at pevergreen, under the basis that the kill choices would make a lot of sense if pever was a mafioso. The end result was a tie between pever and TinCow.

    In one of the weirdest tiebreaker rounds I’ve ever been witness to (and trust me, I’ve seen some truly weird ones), both pever and TinCow voted for themselves instead of each other; pever because he thought that TinCow would be more helpful in the endgame than him, and TinCow because he hadn’t been paying much attention so far and that he wanted to focus his efforts on Shadow Fort. In the end though, pevergreen self-voted first, thus making his suicidal strategy make him appear innocent to the townies. TinCow’s self-vote was actually the effective one, then.

    Executed: TinCow

    Day 7

    Subotan kills Joooray and pevergreen

    Subotan and Chaotix had apparently decided that pever’s strategy during the previous day’s tiebreaker period was much too risky and he had to be removed. I’m not sure if this was the proper move or not. We were still in the midgame after all and the town *thought* they could afford one more lynch before they really got serious with the suspects (although in actuality, they had two or three more lynches to spare, since everybody was operating under the assumption that they were still facing two mafiosi).

    I haven’t really spoken much about Subotan’s performance in the thread to this point, which is probably a mark in Subotan’s favor. He was doing quite well in staying low, out of the limelight, while the more visible suspects were identified and either disposed of or spared. However, I was starting to think of the endgame implications of his strategy. Subotan’s biggest problem was precisely what had allowed him to cruise through six rounds so far: He didn’t put himself out there enough.

    I’d most closely associate Subotan’s performance in this game with that of Kommodus from way back in Mafia III. Kommodus, at that point, had only played one game on the .Org, but had already gained a reputation for being verbose and analytical, already well on his way to becoming the legendary figure of the Gameroom that he is. His problem in Mafia III, though, was that he didn’t hold true to the pattern. Yes, he was able to skate by until the endgame, but when the suspicions finally turned his way, he had no way of refuting them. As Kommodus himself later put it at the end of Godfather 1, perhaps the best way to survive the endgame is to put yourself at risk in the midgame:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kommodus View Post
    My tactics depended on totally avoiding suspicion, and once accused I couldn't defend myself effectively. You, on the other hand, seemed to laugh in the face of multiple accusations, and successfully defended yourself each time.
    It remained to be seen if Subotan would avoid Kommodus’s fate, but so far he was doing quite well (almost too well, considering the above). Once again he sailed through a round without coming under much of anything.

    However, the same couldn’t be said for a lot of other people. The Power Triad officially split this round, with Sasaki gunning for the Subotan-like woad&fangs and ATPG unleashing one of his trademark wall-of-text posts that implicated Methos. I started having flashbacks to Godfather 3 for more than one reason. Interestingly enough, the only one to vote for Subotan was woad himself, precisely for the same reason he was under suspicion from Sasaki.

    All in all, I’d attribute Methos’s WIFOM-heavy behavior to him being a relatively new player and thus not quite yet being fully attuned to Gameroom catechism of townie behavior (doubly so in vanilla games), but of course the rest of the townies didn’t pick up on this and strung him up. I wonder exactly how many new players we’ve lynched over the years for the same exact reasons.

    Executed: Methos

    Day 8

    Subotan kills Beefy187 and Captain Blackadder

    With the deaths of Beefy and Blackadder, there were ten total players left. The endgame had finally arrived, and Subotan would have to survive three more lynches in order to secure his place in Mafia history. In his way were the following players:

    • Reenk Roink, not quite as verbose as usual but still as contrarian as ever. I thought that Reenk would either be an early kill by the mafia or one of the final scapegoats, perhaps to shield Subotan since he had likeminded posting behavior.
    • Psychonaut, also a bit low-profile but dependable, another potential “Subotan shield”. He had been going after Thermal a bit recently, but since he wasn’t as high-profile as Reenk, I had him marked down as a probable kill.
    • Ibn-Khaldun, who, after surviving several early rounds of suspicion had fallen off the map, almost entirely. Contrary to Subotan, he spent a lot of time in bandwagons. I had him down as a probable kill.
    • Renata, another early/midgame survivor, she had been a thoughtful poster, arguing with Kage a lot in the thread. For her non-willingness to simply follow the Gameroom heavyweights, I had her as lasting to the end.
    • Thermal Mercury, the initial scapegoat of Day 8. Another thoughtful poster, he was the one most spooked by all of the ATPG frame attempts. As such, I had Subotan as leaving him alive long enough to lynch ATPG, and then disposing of him afterwards.
    • woad&fangs, Sasaki’s bête noire through most of the latter half of the game. Right idea, wrong person, Sasaki. Subotan was probably going to leave woad alive longer than he should have been. If this were still the midgame, woad was probably the likely lynch target this round, but with the endgame everyone buckled down and took their suspicions elsewhere.
    • Askthepizzaguy, probably the person Subotan was trying hardest to take down. He had gone into “analysis mode” the round before with a misguided lynch on Methos, but realized his mistake after the writeup. Subotan may or may not have successfully gotten him lynched, as it looked like Sasaki was in more danger than ATPG. If Subotan had ever gotten the chance to realize this in the endgame, ATPG would have been dead meat.
    • Sasaki Kojiro, the man who had gotten a vote every single round, the man who was so dangerous in the endgame. Subotan was trying to get ATPG lynched but probably should have been focusing his efforts on Sasaki, who looked to be in more trouble. Had Subotan survived, I had marked Sasaki’s fate down as eventually getting lynched, perhaps in the final round, due to nothing more than sheer town paranoia.
    • Kagemusha, the old survivor. Kage more than anyone else always seemed to make it to the endgame, being one of the final three survivors in Mafias VI and VIII, Crazed Rabbit’s final victim in Mafia VII, and of course the winner of Mafia I. Chaotix and Subotan were wary of killing him due to fear of their loss being attributed to the Curse that bears his name, and Kage once again seemed to rise to the occasion in the moments where he was most in danger, avoiding a sure lynch on Day 6. Kage would once again probably make it to the final round.


    Subotan was probably hoping that, true to form, woad would be the day’s target, or barring that, the early bandwagon on Thermal (helped by some encouragement from the dead) would hold. Psychonaut also was under fire for perceived insecurity in one of his posts.

    Of course, things went differently. Sasaki did his reread of the thread and, as usual, sniffed out the right suspect, shifting his focus towards Subotan. Subo’s low-key behavior finally came back to bite him, as he only stepped it up to be his usual serious, thoughtful self when he was briefly under fire early on in the game.

    Subotan, posting from an iphone due to lack of internet at a relative’s house, gave the best defense that he could, but once again it was the defense itself that hurt him more than anything else (see: TevashSzat, Godfather 3, The), as his ever-growing list of attackers cited the fact that he seemed to be overly concerned about this one particular thread if he was taking the time to post long, coherent defenses from at iphone at a relative’s house.

    All of a sudden, it happened again. Subotan went from a man on an easy cruise to in serious trouble, and it looked like I would go 2-for-11 in Large or Huge games in terms of having a mafia victory. Subotan’s nearest competitor was (of course) Sasaki, with one vote each being thrown in the direction of Thermal and ATPG. Even if both of those votes were to come off their respective targets and onto Sasaki, it still would have been a 5-5 tie, and it would have only been a matter of time anyway.

    Due to an unexpected all-nighter I had to pull the night of the final writeup, I gave Subotan a 12-hour stay of execution, but in the end the result was the same. The mafia had gone down to defeat once again.

    Executed: Subotan

    Game finish

    I think the killer round for the Mafia was Day 2, even more so than Day 8. You have to expect to take casualties in the endgame unless you play a perfect game. Chaotix’s early downfall meant that Subotan had lost his wingman, but more important than that, he had lost his margin of error.

    All in all, Mafia IX was very entertaining, even if the endgame drama didn’t live up to some of them from games past (if you’re interested, Mafias III, V, VI, and VIII especially are very good reads), and I feel as if I accomplished my mission of reintroducing vanilla mafia to a whole new generation of Gameroom players. Hopefully you’ll all still be around this fall when I host my next, non-vanilla game, and then in June of 2011 where we celebrate Mafia’s fifth anniversary with the sure-to-be epic Mafia X.

    Congratulations to Chaotix and Subotan for a game very well played, even if you guys came up a bit short at the end. As I’ve told you in the thread and via PM, it’s hard to win as Mafia, and your effort was more than commendable. And of course, congrats to the townies of the game for once again saving the Frontroom.

    So, as I officially bring Mafia IX to a close, I leave you all with this one thought: Beware of rocket-propelled cows in the night.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  19. #1279
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Land of Heat and Clockwork
    Posts
    4,990
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    I was planning for a change of strategy by Day 8, as I hoped I would shed my inane, goofy persona and become an "analyst" for the town. However, IRL conspired against me, as I was isolated from a desktop and had to painstakingly prod-prod-prod those huge posts you all saw. The fact that the house I was in was tremendously dusty was no help either. Had I been at a desktop/laptop, perhaps I could have made that change successfully, especially since as I was away for the whole weekend, I would drag the change out of several days. But it wasn't to be, as Sasaki homed in on me. From that point on, I was pretty much toast, whatever I did. Looking back on the posts, I would have put in more accusation and less defence, but I wasn't in a position to do that, and my only hope was that they wouldn't lynch a guy who couldn't respond (Even)

    But back to the early game, I think GH is right is that we were probably screwed by Day 2. I had no breathing space from that point onward, and it probably would have been preferable to the scum had the more experienced player survived. I was pleased with the Night 1 kills though, as they dropped out of the game early on after that, despite CR's promise for vengeance (Which was eventually fulfilled, albeit indirectly ). I was concious of the fact that lurkers die in the mid game, so sneaking to victory was not an option, and I didn't have the experience, time or reputation to become a Manchurian analyst. Coasting was my only option, and seeing as I'd never been mafia before, that was going to be hard. My debate with Sasaki was fun, both because he bought it and because I survived by the skin of my teeth (Or rather, Shlin28's self vote).

    But by the late game, we were having real difficulty towards the end of the game. Everyone left appeared to either look scummy, or had to die from a lynch. We had actually intended Methos to "come along for the ride" into the depths of the endgame, in order to serve as a lurker I could lynch. Unwittingly, he might have saved the town by getting himself killed ahead of schedule. We also thought that Ibn was total lynchbait, and I expected him to get lynched every phase since about Day 4. We had similar things going with Thermal, Renata, Reenk etc. However, we were desperate to get Sasaki or ATPG lynched. The "pizza paddle" manoeuvre failed ironically because it was such an ATPG-ish move; he was probably the only player who would have been able to dismiss it as a simple WIFOM. I had trouble with attempts to get Sasaki lynched, as it would have been quite an unusual move to go from discussing mafia theory with him to suddenly start baying for his blood. I couldn't pick up on anything to accuse him of, apart from the usual suspicions which everyone, esp. Renata had about him. Even if I had managed to lodge a vote against him in the final round, the fact that it was against Sasaki was a duel that I just couldn't win, a David and Goliath match where David gets pounded into the sand.

    I don't know what Chaotix has to say about it, but I'm guessing that he'll agree with half of what I've said and dismiss the other half as nonsense. But we will both agree that this was a great game, and that we enjoyed working together. It certainly has given me some much needed experience for the next time I'm scum, and I thoroughly enjoyed both the plotting and weapon choosing (Yes, even the turtles) along with the attempted deception in thread.

  20. #1280

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    I think GH hit the nail on the head with the "skate by in the early game = no defense in endgame". The strategies that work well for mafia in the first 7 rounds look like...well, strategies that work well for mafia, when looked at in retrospect.

  21. #1281
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    25,826

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    I read this slowly and deliberately, relishing every word. Thank you GH.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  22. #1282
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,352

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    I think GH hit the nail on the head with the "skate by in the early game = no defense in endgame". The strategies that work well for mafia in the first 7 rounds look like...well, strategies that work well for mafia, when looked at in retrospect.
    Yeah, for all that I got it embarrassingly wrong on Subotan, this is exactly correct. People who play like Subotan did tend to wind up dead in the second half of most games. If for no other reason (and there are other reasons) than because the more vocal players usually disagree on each others' guilt or innocence, but they all agree that the semi-lurkers are inherently suspicious.

    Thank you once more for the entertaining game, GH, for the AWESOME writeups (the 'Khaan lynch should be bronzed for posterity or something), and also for the thoughtful post-game. Hope I get to play another one some time.

  23. #1283
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Helsinki,Finland
    Posts
    9,595

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    Thanks for the great commentary GH!Like i have said times and times again. I enjoy thoroughly reading your commentaries. These small peeks inside the brains of others are extremely valuable. I know i was personally off the mark the whole game, but this game was a great lesson for me to return to the basics of my game and not to become too focused on high profile players.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  24. #1284
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In my own skin.
    Posts
    13,208

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    Great write-up, GH

    I shoud apologise because I was not very active in this game. Several reasons for that: RL forces me to have other priorities due to certain circumstances is one reason, but I'll admit that being killed N1 me off a lot. I had decided not to join Shadow Fort, which seems to have been an excellent game, because it appeared to me that it would be as time consuming as the Capo games; so I was very pleased to see this good ol' vanilla Mafia to join. Looking forward to a game only to find out you're killed N1 is a turn off. Somebody needs to go N1 of course, but did it have to be *this* game? Cruel fate.

    When the frustration of being killed N1 was gone, the game had advanced too much to catch up for me.

    So, my apologies for my lack of participation in this one
    Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy

    Ja mata, TosaInu

  25. #1285
    Mercury Member Thermal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    "United" Kingdom
    Posts
    5,429
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    I read it all, nice commentary.

    Somewhere around end game I remember voting for a low key player as most of them were dead (so why weren't the remaining low key players?) but chaotix and subotan considered this, by keeping say psychonaut in with subotan in the end game, without sasaki sussing subotan out he could have had a good chance as psychonaut and maybe W&F would be in a similar situation.

  26. #1286
    The Bad Doctor Senior Member Chaotix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,167

    Default Re: Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded]

    Great commentary, GH!

    I was going to post something long and profound, but Subo beat me to the punch.

    Nonetheless, it was a great game, and I agree with just about everything he said. Near the endgame, it got hard to pick kills.
    Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom

Page 43 of 43 FirstFirst ... 333940414243

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO