Presenting the back to cavalry???

[Duguntz]

Good day to all of you EB fans! I started a campaing as Koinon Hellenon, on EB for BI, using classical army composition. I remarked one BIG problem : when i make shield wall to form the phalanx formation, neat and nice they regroup, advence, no problem there... but then wghen start the fight, I follow a bit my cavalry on the flank of the ennemy, and when I return to see how my hoplites should have cutted to pieces some low levies... I see they fight... backward, I mean they litterally fight, presenting their back to the ennemy. at first, i tought it was my mistake, that I didn't placed them good... but no, every time I fight using shield wall with defancie stance, they turn around and fight backward... i must admit it's pretty annoying... any ideas where that comes from? and a second question... how to deal with the Grey Plague using a cklassical composed army... meaning, some cav, but classical hoplites, and some peltastai... no plalangites at all...

[Paltmull]

This happens quite a lot when you order your troops to attack when they're in guard mode. You should try making the enemy engage your troops rather than the opposite.

[WinsingtonIII]

Yeah the same thing happens with phalangites when you tell them to attack when they're in phalanx mode, or any unit that is in guard mode when you tell them to attack.

Tactically, I think a lot depends on how much cavalry the AS is fielding. Since they generally have better cav than you, if they're fielding lots of cav I'm not sure what to tell you. However, if they aren't using much cavalry, just put your hoplites in guard mode, let the phalanxes come to you, and pin them with the hoplites (don't use the attack command). Phalanxes kill slowly, so now it's about using the time you have to flank them and hit them from behind with your cavalry and assault infantry. I realize this is just pretty basic hammer and anvil, but your hoplites are generally hardy enough to pull it off.

If you don't want to do traditional hammer and anvil, you could try to isolate the individual phalanxes. Your hoplites/peltasts are more maneuverable, so try and get the AI to split up its forces, then use local numerical superiority to pin individual phalanxes with one hoplite unit and then charge them from behind with another hoplite, or cavalry, or even peltasts. It's pretty much always about pinning the phalanxes with one unit and hitting them with another in the rear.

If they're using lots of cavalry, I guess try and counter with Hippeis Xystophoroi, or even better, Hippeis Thessalikoi. But I guess if you're using a classical army you can't bring too many of those. Or try and get the enemy cavalry engaged frontally with your Hoplites, they won't stand a chance then.

[vartan]

The issue that the OP is having has not to do with Guard mode or Phalanx formation but rather the key here is that he is using BI and its engine-specific shield wallformation. This is a feature that was available in the original game and apparently carries over when you play Europa Barbarorum on the BI engine. As EB was made for Rome:Total War and not BI, I am not surprised that the OP is having problems, such as the hoplites turning their backs to the enemy whilst fighting. I say do not use shield wall formation, keep your hoplites on guard mode, and see if you get something similar to what you were looking for. Yes, this will not be a "shield wall" as per the engine for BI, but it is a "shield wall" as per the unit as modeled and created by the EB development team.

--
V

[Macilrille]

I do not use BI, but it happens to me too sometimes. A bit annoying when the Triarii holding the bridge against an unarmoured horde so your Cretans and Slingers can soften them up a bit before you withdraw them and it, to engage in a line fight.

[vartan]

I do not use BI, but it happens to me too sometimes. A bit annoying when the Triarii holding the bridge against an unarmoured horde so your Cretans and Slingers can soften them up a bit before you withdraw them and it, to engage in a line fight.

It is an unfortunate bug in the game. (I have experienced it more often in 1.5 (RTW) than 1.9 (ALX), but mind you it occurs in both engine versions.) If you ever happen to see any of your units in battle with their backs turned to the enemy, quickly select that unit, hit backspace to halt the unit, then attack the unit it should be facing and your problem will be fixed. On the bright side, this will keep you more alert and aware--a trait that you will need to develop if you wish to be a more effective player in multiplayer battles.

[Duguntz]

yeah, that's true! But on campaing, it's a bit bothering when you line beautiful wall of spear to wait a heavy kata charge, and at the last moment, they turn their back to block the charge with their ... back...

[Macilrille]

Perhaps they saw "Braveheart" and felt inspired, but got the timing all wrong...

Vartan, yes; that is what I do, but it is still annoying. I should thing that the Centurion would know how to keep his troops in line and formation and leave the general to generalling.

[Duguntz]

Perhaps they saw "Braveheart" and felt inspired, but got the timing all wrong...

That one made my day! hahahahahahahaha! It actually happened today, at the battle of... damn... forgot the name... east of pergamon. it was almost made on purpuse, I could hear the general... ok guys... hold... hoooold... hoooooold... TUUUUURN! Bang... 3 units of katas in the back... what a glorious day for the mighty hellenes...

[vartan]

generalling

o_0 ? generalling? haha. Umm, sure?

That one made my day! hahahahahahahaha! It actually happened today, at the battle of... damn... forgot the name... east of pergamon. it was almost made on purpuse, I could hear the general... ok guys... hold... hoooold... hoooooold... TUUUUURN! Bang... 3 units of katas in the back... what a glorious day for the mighty hellenes...

Glorious???!!! You've gone mad!!!

The bug I see occurs as the battle progresses, not before engagement. Thus I have to say that it must be a shield wall issue, as without shield wall I do not see units turning their backs PRIOR TO ENGAGEMENT.

[seienchin]

Actually let the unit halt and than order them to atack never had any impact on my troops, because I think the problem is that the KI of your units misjudges the position of the enemy they are fighting. Ifit happens I just let the unit of their guard mode.
Still if it happens with phalangitai its always fatal. I lost half of a unit of agyraspidai to levy hoplites that way.

[vartan]

Actually let the unit halt and than order them to atack never had any impact on my troops, because I think the problem is that the KI of your units misjudges the position of the enemy they are fighting. Ifit happens I just let the unit of their guard mode.
Still if it happens with phalangitai its always fatal. I lost half of a unit of agyraspidai to levy hoplites that way.

Yeah the KI and its pathfinding abilities are limited. The same idea is visible when chasing fleeing troops. If even one unit is stranded, the chasing unit will be confused...

[Duguntz]

Yeah, that's another issue.. is there something more frustrating than trying to decimate mercilessly a fleeing army and seeing that your guys are running BESIDE those who they were supposed to kill... well... myopy is a sickness that was incurable at that time... must be that

[Conqueror]

That one made my day! hahahahahahahaha! It actually happened today, at the battle of... damn... forgot the name... east of pergamon. it was almost made on purpuse, I could hear the general... ok guys... hold... hoooold... hoooooold... TUUUUURN! Bang... 3 units of katas in the back... what a glorious day for the mighty hellenes...

Perhaps the unit was composed of those Theban Sacred Band -style bonded mates? They were a little too used to taking it in the rear...

[Cute Wolf]

Perhaps the unit was composed of those Theban Sacred Band -style bonded mates? They were a little too used to taking it in the rear...

what? the theban homosexual hoplites are actually among the best troopers in their time..... did they doing that when face young, handsome, and fresh Alexandros?

[Ludens]

Please don't spark another debate on Greek sexuality, guys.

[vartan]

what? the theban homosexual hoplites are actually among the best troopers in their time..... did they doing that when face young, handsome, and fresh Alexandros?

Cute Wolf is just being himself here. Haha.