If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

[Fragony]

What's that?

Well prom for example. Not so strange they don't like that in Hillbilly-land. She knows it will greatly upset them, that is why she's doing it. The people there aren't ready for this. I don't see the problem, the other kids get their prom, she gets her attention she was looking for, everybody happy. No way the school didn't threaten to call of the prom altogether if she didn't back of. She started rolling on the floor and started screaming, like kids do when they don't get what they want when they want it.

[miotas]

If you're going to draw a parallel to a child chucking a tantrum then I'd say it was the school, stamping it's foot and saying "Fine! If we can't get what we want, nobody else gets what they want!"

[naut]

Well prom for example. Not so strange they don't like that in Hillbilly-land. She knows it will greatly upset them, that is why she's doing it. The people there aren't ready for this. I don't see the problem, the other kids get their prom, she gets her attention she was looking for, everybody happy.

Haha. There isn't some great Lesbian conspiracy to overthrow the straights. She just wanted to celebrate graduating with her partner.

No way the school didn't threaten to call of the prom altogether if she didn't back of. She started rolling on the floor and started screaming, like kids do when they don't get what they want when they want it.

Assumption based on 0 facts.

[Fragony]

Assumption based on 0 facts.

But very, very likely. Also very likely that there have been numerous talks with her on how sensitive these things are. She's an activist.

[Meneldil]

Even if she was an activist, which you can't prove so far, what's the problem? If she tried to underline that Mississippi is full of religous nutjobs who hunt down gays for their entertainment, she hit right on the spot.

Either she simply wanted to go the prom with her date (in which case the school is retard), or she wanted to make a political point and succedeed.

The fact that 'those people' and their 'tradition' are not any better than muslim fundamentalists and fascists doesn't make them right. Sometimes you have to stand up for your rights (an argument that you bring forth all the time when discussing Geert Wilders), and that's precisely what she did: she stood up for her right to be a lesbian and to have a date without being a pariah.

Maybe Rosa Parks shouldn't have stood up for her right to sit in a bus. I mean, she was totally not respecting white scumbags and their tradition.

[Goofball]

To be fair, I don't think we can blame this one entirely on religion. There are plenty of small-minded bigots who don't need the Bible or the Qu'ran to tell them to hate gays. They do just fine on their own...

[Rhyfelwyr]

Maybe Rosa Parks shouldn't have stood up for her right to sit in a bus. I mean, she was totally not respecting white scumbags and their tradition.

Going to your school prom isn't a human right, when it's a private function they make the rules, there's no need for social authoritarianism to make everyone conform. Although if the event is funded by the state then I guess the school shouldn't really break its rules.

[Fragony]

Even if she was an activist, which you can't prove so far, what's the problem? If she tried to underline that Mississippi is full of religous nutjobs who hunt down gays for their entertainment, she hit right on the spot.

Either she simply wanted to go the prom with her date (in which case the school is retard), or she wanted to make a political point and succedeed.

The fact that 'those people' and their 'tradition' are not any better than muslim fundamentalists and fascists doesn't make them right. Sometimes you have to stand up for your rights (an argument that you bring forth all the time when discussing Geert Wilders), and that's precisely what she did: she stood up for her right to be a lesbian and to have a date without being a pariah.

Maybe Rosa Parks shouldn't have stood up for her right to sit in a bus. I mean, she was totally not respecting white scumbags and their tradition.

Rosa parks didn't fight her battles over the heads of others, this girl does, she is self-centred enough to sabotage other peoples prom. Of course she knew this would happen.

[Ser Clegane]

Of course she knew this would happen.

She knew that the schoold would cancel the prom? Great job blaming the girl for a nonsense decision by the school.
Was there any compelling reason for the school to cancel the event? Would she have jeopardized the event in any way had she shown up with her girlfriend while wearing a tuxedo?

[Fragony]

She knew that the schoold would cancel the prom? Great job blaming the girl for a nonsense decision by the school.

Of course she knew that it's Redneckstan. School wouldn't have had a choice in the first place because of parent pressure. Missisippi is you know, kinda conservative. You don't have to feel sorry for her, she got exactly out of this what she wanted.

[Ser Clegane]

she got exactly out of this what she wanted.

Of course there might be the slight chance that "what she wanted" was simply going to the prom with her date - not unusual for a teenager, you know...

[Fragony]

Of course there might be the slight chance that "what she wanted" was simply going to the prom with her date - not unusual for a teenager, you know...

May have started like that. I am sure it would have turned out perfectly cute, I don't exactly have a problem with hot lesbians kissing in the first place, two women is better then one. Look at it from the perspective from the school, how many kids wouldn't be allowed to show up by their parents? Given the hate for gays in these area's it could be a considerable amount, it would be a major scandal. Faggot-school this faggot school that they might even get attacked. You don't have to like it but that is how it is.

[PanzerJaeger]

Why is it up to the 16 year old girl to be the adult in this situation? So the school adminstration is either homophobic or worried about the delicate sensibilities of homophobic parents? Its their job to act in the best interest of the child, not submit to local intolerances.

[Fragony]

Why is it up to the 16 year old girl to be the adult in this situation? So the school adminstration is either homophobic or worried about the delicate sensibilities of homophobic parents? Its their job to act in the best interest of the child, not submit to local intolerances.

It could also be that the school wanted to spare everybody's feelings when they shut down the prom altogether, she put them in a pretty nasty position to be in. The school knew she was gay and let that go, maybe the school is little bit more progressive then it appears to be from this story. Or maybe not, never been there. Also consider the hint of innocence that surrounds the prom, kissing lesbians is extremely erotic, I would blame the place not the school.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Prom is pretty much the high of the year for them. So no, you are not going to spare everybody by canceling it. And kissing lesbians is as erotic or not as any couple kissing; it depends entirely on the perspective of the onlooker. So if that is even a reason for a decision to cancel the event because some couple might start kissing (nevermind now whether or not the couple is lesbian) means the school board should “grow up and get over it”.

[Fragony]

it depends entirely on the perspective of the onlooker.

Yes it really does, that's the point.

[Goofball]

Going to your school prom isn't a human right, when it's a private function they make the rules, there's no need for social authoritarianism to make everyone conform. Although if the event is funded by the state then I guess the school shouldn't really break its rules.

(bold added by me)

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor because I was laughing at the classic conservative double-talk you just threw in there. The school, by insisting that only male/female pairs may attend the prom, is the party engaging in "social authoritarianism." The tactic you used is a mainstay in the conservative anit-gay arsenal: trying to make it look like the homosexual community is trying to force everyone to adopt its lifestyle, when in fact, it's the complete opposite. The conservatives are the ones trying to make everyone else conform to their own morality and live life by their rules.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Of course she knew that it's Redneckstan. School wouldn't have had a choice in the first place because of parent pressure. Missisippi is you know, kinda conservative. You don't have to feel sorry for her, she got exactly out of this what she wanted.

If all she wanted was to cause a fuss, you'd think there would be dozens of other things she would have done as well. But there are many people who only make a fuss over a single issue, and otherwise don't make a fuss. So isn't it odd to claim that she is just doing it to piss people off?

[Goofball]

It could also be that the school wanted to spare everybody's feelings when they shut down the prom altogether, she put them in a pretty nasty position to be in. The school knew she was gay and let that go, maybe the school is little bit more progressive then it appears to be from this story. Or maybe not, never been there. Also consider the hint of innocence that surrounds the prom, kissing lesbians is extremely erotic, I would blame the place not the school.

(bold added by me)

The school knew she was gay and "let it go?" What action do you believe the school could or should have taken against her for the offense of being gay?

And sorry, exactly whose feelings do you think the school is sparing?

[Strike For The South]

it's Mississippi

There still trying to figure out why there are people with a different skin color than them. Now girls can like girls? I can't imagine what those poor WASPs thinkning it must be hard

[Rhyfelwyr]

(bold added by me)

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor because I was laughing at the classic conservative double-talk you just threw in there. The school, by insisting that only male/female pairs may attend the prom, is the party engaging in "social authoritarianism." The tactic you used is a mainstay in the conservative anit-gay arsenal: trying to make it look like the homosexual community is trying to force everyone to adopt its lifestyle, when in fact, it's the complete opposite. The conservatives are the ones trying to make everyone else conform to their own morality and live life by their rules.

I'm just saying that for the folk of Mississipi with their traditional beliefs and what not, the idea of a prom is that heterosexual couples go together like they did in the olden days. Tradition means a lot in these things, it's not like their banning lesbians from the club scene or taking part in public life.

You might not hold these values, but to the people of Mississipi, demanding lesbians attend a prom is as ridiculous as demanding that straights get to go on gay dating sites (idk if they can, but if they can then it's stupid). If gays are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more straight people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them (and we are talking about changing their way of life here, people are social creatures, and they have a right to have that respected in their public life, so long as discrimination is ever institutionalised).

Everyone is saying the school is being petty, but that's all we should do, not force them to change. Well, except maybe in this case if the prom is funded by the gov't, then they have to dance to their tune.

[Fragony]

The conservatives are the ones trying to make everyone else conform to their own morality and live life by their rules.

Yes of course, but it isn't any different the other way around. What is wrong with people wanting to live in a conservative society with conservative values, you can always move to a different place, earth is a big enough a place for all of us why look for trouble. It's silly to you and me, but it's how that place is and it's what you can respect when you -yes- don't show respect their views on certain things. Why can't they have that? Why isn't it allowed?

[Strike For The South]

Calling Mississippi a "conservative" socitey is like saying the NAZIs had some old timey ideas on race

Mississippi is a terrible place

Boom Goodwin

[Goofball]

I'm just saying that for the folk of Mississipi with their traditional beliefs and what not, the idea of a prom is that heterosexual couples go together like they did in the olden days. Tradition means a lot in these things, it's not like their banning lesbians from the club scene or taking part in public life.

You might not hold these values, but to the people of Mississipi, demanding lesbians attend a prom is as ridiculous as demanding that straights get to go on gay dating sites (idk if they can, but if they can then it's stupid). If gays are going to be more excluded simply due to the fact that there are more straight people, then that just sucks for them, but it's not their place to call on the government to demand everyone changes their own way of life to suit them (and we are talking about changing their way of life here, people are social creatures, and they have a right to have that respected in their public life, so long as discrimination is ever institutionalised).

Everyone is saying the school is being petty, but that's all we should do, not force them to change. Well, except maybe in this case if the prom is funded by the gov't, then they have to dance to their tune.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I honestly don't understand what kind of sweeping lifestyle change you believe the lesbian girl is trying to force on the conservatives of Mississippi. Please do explain it to me. As far as I can see, all she wants to do is be free to attend a a social event at the school she has attended as a student for the last four years with her girlfriend. She is not asking anyone to become a lesbian. No personal lifestyle change is being forced on any member of the student body by her desire to attend the prom. They can go on being heterosexual, conservative, Christian, Muslim, gun-owners, tea-totallers, or whatever else they want to be, and the lesbian girl and the ACLU won't care. All the girl wants is to go to the dance. She is the one having someone else's lifestyle choice forced upon her.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Exactly. Let's say that we meet a conservative, traditional society who has as it's tradition that we don't exist. Are we then in the wrong for violating their traditions? Or are there qualifiers on the extent to which we should respect their traditions, one of them being that they don't interfere with our traditions for no good reason?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I honestly don't understand what kind of sweeping lifestyle change you believe the lesbian girl is trying to force on the conservatives of Mississippi. Please do explain it to me. As far as I can see, all she wants to do is be free to attend a a social event at the school she has attended as a student for the last four years with her girlfriend. She is not asking anyone to become a lesbian. No personal lifestyle change is being forced on any member of the student body by her desire to attend the prom. They can go on being heterosexual, conservative, Christian, Muslim, gun-owners, tea-totallers, or whatever else they want to be, and the lesbian girl and the ACLU won't care. All the girl wants is to go to the dance. She is the one having someone else's lifestyle choice forced upon her.

I agree with most of what you're saying. What the school is doing is petty and wrong. This girls attendance at the event shouldn't really effect anyone.

But to these people it's a big deal, and at the end of the day it is their own private event. I'll condemn their choice, but I don't see it as anyones place to make them change. But if we do at least try to see if from their perspective - the prom is a rare, traditional event. Part of the tradition that reflects the culture of that area is that only heterosexual couples go, due largely to the Christian culture of the place. If you start brining in lesbian couples, you're turning it into something else, it's no longer a Mississipi school prom, it's suddenly an experiment in multiculturalism. Nothing radical to you, but it is for them.

Exactly. Let's say that we meet a conservative, traditional society who has as it's tradition that we don't exist. Are we then in the wrong for violating their traditions? Or are there qualifiers on the extent to which we should respect their traditions, one of them being that they don't interfere with our traditions for no good reason?

Surely this would only be relevant if it affected those peoples freedom in the public sphere. Private functions should not count as part of the public sphere, they should be free for people to be as prejudiced as they like, it's not our place to judge or infringe on that. Although as I said, I wouldnt' use my point here in this case if the prom is funded by the government, but I'm just raising it more generally.

[HoreTore]

But to these people it's a big deal, and at the end of the day it is their own private event.

No it most definitely is not.

It's a public event, run by the state school and funded by taxes paid by the lesbian girls parents. As such we have every right to tell them they're homophobic idiots and force them to allow gays at their prom.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Surely this would only be relevant if it affected those peoples freedom in the public sphere. Private functions should not count as part of the public sphere, they should be free for people to be as prejudiced as they like, it's not our place to judge or infringe on that. Although as I said, I wouldnt' use my point here in this case if the prom is funded by the government, but I'm just raising it more generally.

Why do you say "judge"? Infringe would have more stringent requirements I agree.

[Goofball]

I agree with most of what you're saying. What the school is doing is petty and wrong. This girls attendance at the event shouldn't really effect anyone.

But to these people it's a big deal, and at the end of the day it is their own private event. I'll condemn their choice, but I don't see it as anyones place to make them change. But if we do at least try to see if from their perspective - the prom is a rare, traditional event. Part of the tradition that reflects the culture of that area is that only heterosexual couples go, due largely to the Christian culture of the place. If you start brining in lesbian couples, you're turning it into something else, it's no longer a Mississipi school prom, it's suddenly an experiment in multiculturalism. Nothing radical to you, but it is for them.

As has been pointed out, this is certainly not a private event. The lesbian girl is just as much a member of the school as any of the other students. She is not trying to change anyone else's lifestyle, or to exclude anyone else from attending. This is being done to her, not the other way around. If your only argument is that tradition trumps personal freedom and basic human dignity, then I suggest you simply haven't thought the matter through in a logical fashion. The question has been asked already in this thread, but is ideally applicable to your comments, so I'll ask it again: Tradition in this same area of the country previously held that blacks could not attend the same schools, play on the same sports teams, sit at the same lunch counters, or even drink from the same water fountains as whites. Should we have simply said "Oh well, that's their tradition, I guess we have to respect that."?

[Rhyfelwyr]

No it most definitely is not.

It's a public event, run by the state school and funded by taxes paid by the lesbian girls parents. As such we have every right to tell them they're homophobic idiots and force them to allow gays at their prom.

I've said before several times that if it is indeed funded by the government then they have no right to deny the girl entry. I wasn't sure if this was the case, if it is then there's no debate. My point was just in theory.

Why do you say "judge"? Infringe would have more stringent requirements I agree.

You're right, you can of course judge, we've all condemned it. Multiculturalism is taking its toll on me with its everyone-must-be-right-ism.