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Thread: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

  1. #91
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    You're right, you can of course judge, we've all condemned it. Multiculturalism is taking its toll on me with its everyone-must-be-right-ism.
    Multiculturalism does not demand that everyone must be right, it states that everyone should be tolerated. It doesn't force us to take on the traditions of others, it only allows them to live along side our own, to the extent that they do not infringe on our own personal freedoms or conflict with the laws of our society.
    Last edited by Goofball; 03-15-2010 at 21:33. Reason: typo
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  2. #92
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    I've said before several times that if it is indeed funded by the government then they have no right to deny the girl entry. I wasn't sure if this was the case, if it is then there's no debate. My point was just in theory.
    You do raise another interesting question; is it just the state who isn't allowed to discriminate? Are we free to discriminate as long as everythign is private?

    Am I free to put a sign that says "No gays allowed" outside my gas station when I go to work tonight? Would you respect my "tradition" if I did?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Am I free to put a sign that says "No gays allowed" outside my gas station when I go to work tonight? Would you respect my "tradition" if I did?
    I think you should be. Let people power do it's thing. If people really are offended by this, they would boycott it. Otherwise, do you want to give all the power to the government to pursue social engineering?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  4. #94
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball View Post
    I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I honestly don't understand what kind of sweeping lifestyle change you believe the lesbian girl is trying to force on the conservatives of Mississippi. Please do explain it to me. As far as I can see, all she wants to do is be free to attend a a social event at the school she has attended as a student for the last four years with her girlfriend.
    The right idea but the wrong place, just leave it at that. Why insist to be a part of their world.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    I think you should be. Let people power do it's thing. If people really are offended by this, they would boycott it. Otherwise, do you want to give all the power to the government to pursue social engineering?
    I don't see "government" as any different to "people power".

    And I don't believe in "might is right". Whether a significant portion is offended enough to boycott it is irrelevant, as it will only effect a minority that isn't big enough to arrange a boycott.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 03-15-2010 at 21:47.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  6. #96
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Why insist to be a part of their world.
    What makes you assume that she is some kind of outcast who is not "part of their world"? For all you know she might be treated as "one of theirs" by most other students who might not have cared at all if she had showed up with her date.

    I did not read anything that would indicate that other students were upset about the idea of her showing up in a tuxedo - I only read about students who are upset about the stupid idea of canceling the prom.

  7. #97
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane View Post
    I did not read anything that would indicate that other students were upset about the idea of her showing up in a tuxedo - I only read about students who are upset about the stupid idea of canceling the prom.
    Guess you didn't notice the 'NO GAYS' signs. There is a time and and place for everyting but not there and not now.

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    I don't see "government" as any different to "people power".

    And I don't believe in "might is right". Whether a significant portion is offended enough to boycott it is irrelevant, as it will only effect a minority that isn't big enough to arrange a boycott.
    Well if you don't trust people power, and you say the government is no different from people power, then what can you do?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    I think they should introduce a new rule for the party saying "No Bigots Allowed".
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  10. #100
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Haha, now, fighting discrimination and calling fascists fascists is labelled "multiculturalism". Ridiculous.

    The gay haters deliver in this thread

  11. #101
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Who are you reffering to? I don't see anyone agreeing with the school

  12. #102
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Guess you didn't notice the 'NO GAYS' signs. There is a time and and place for everyting but not there and not now.
    There was a "NO GAYS" sign put up by the other students for the original prom before the school sent the message across that the choice is a "NO GAYS" prom or no prom at all?
    I guess I missed that indeed. Please show me.

  13. #103
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane View Post
    There was a "NO GAYS" sign put up by the other students for the original prom before the school sent the message across that the choice is a "NO GAYS" prom or no prom at all?
    Is of no importance for my argument

  14. #104
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Is of no importance for my argument
    If your argument is that "she was not welcome at the prom anyway, so why should she want to go there" it seems pretty relevant what the other students thought about here before the school screwed this up.

  15. #105
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane View Post
    If your argument is that "she was not welcome at the prom anyway, so why should she want to go there" it seems pretty relevant what the other students thought about here before the school screwed this up.
    Wouldn't she be welcome at the alternative party if the other students supported her? No 'fine we will organize our own prom you backward lunies'. Big fat no gays allowed sign instead
    Last edited by Fragony; 03-16-2010 at 13:19.

  16. #106
    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Wouldn't she be welcome at the alternative party if the other students supported her?
    To repeat my previous post:
    the school sent the message across that the choice is a "NO GAYS" prom or no prom at all?" might change the mood a bit.

    Also, where did you read anything about a "NO GAYS" sign at the alternative party? The original article certainly does not mention anything like that (it does not even mention that there would be an alternative party:

    Quote Originally Posted by article
    Announcing the cancellation, the school board said: "It is our hope that private citizens will organize an event for the juniors and seniors." A private party would circumvent the legal issues.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ser Clegane View Post
    To repeat my previous post:
    the school sent the message across that the choice is a "NO GAYS" prom or no prom at all?" might change the mood a bit.

    Also, where did you read anything about a "NO GAYS" sign at the alternative party? The original article certainly does not mention anything like that (it does not even mention that there would be an alternative party:
    not my words
    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    And in case you didn't read the article properly; the straight kids are going to have a private prom with a big sign that says "Gays not allowed"
    I didn't read the English article, story also appeared on Dutch media.

  18. #108
    But it was on sale!! Scienter's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    I feel bad for the girl, she's going to have tons of abuse heaped on her at school.

  19. #109
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Just so we all know that it isn't just "redNeckistan" grappling with this issue, HERE is a summary of a court case in Toronto, Canada from 2002, where one Marc Hall wanted to attend his Catholic HS prom with his 21-year old boyfriend.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  20. #110
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    Just so we all know that it isn't just "redNeckistan" grappling with this issue, HERE is a summary of a court case in Toronto, Canada from 2002, where one Marc Hall wanted to attend his Catholic HS prom with his 21-year old boyfriend.
    Good find there Kukri. Although it's a bit long, I would recommend that anyone who has an interest in this topic give it a read. I was impressed not only with the clear and well thought out arguments made by both sides, but with the respect for each others' dignity the opposing sides showed each other.

    That having been said, this question is open and shut for me for one very simple reason: in Canada, religious schools are still part of the public school system and receive tax money. For that reason, they don't have a leg to stand on here. If they were completely privately funded, I would have no problem with them telling gay students they can't bring a same sex date to prom.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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  21. #111
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Good read, movie material

  22. #112
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    I found this part interesting: "claiming it is the school board's religious right to discriminate. It's an old argument used to justify racial discrimination in the past."

    What grounds would a Catholic school have for discriminating against somebody based on their race?

  23. #113
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Nah, even I'll admit that this is petty. But at the same time there's no need for the leftist moral outrage, she could just suck it up and respect peoples traditions, the world doesn't have to change just for her.
    She has done no wrong in simply asking for what is hers, which is the same rights and treatment as everyone else.

    You wouldn't tell Rosa Parks that she's making a stink about where she sits on a bus, and that she should suck it up. It might be a little thing to you, but it is everything to the oppressed minority. It's certainly not your place to tell this girl what rights she's entitled to that she should ignore. There's every need for the moral outrage, just because you aren't the one being systematically mistreated and oppressed, that doesn't mean there isn't an injustice to be corrected.

    Edit: Finally read the thread in its entirety, and as others have pointed out, this is a public school, not a private religious function. Everyone's rights are protected there.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 03-19-2010 at 03:33.
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  24. #114
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    She has done no wrong in simply asking for what is hers, which is the same rights and treatment as everyone else.
    You mean the right to take a person of the opposite sex to the prom, the same way everyone else does?

    lol, I don't really think that, but the school could see things that way.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  25. #115
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    You mean the right to take a person of the opposite sex to the prom, the same way everyone else does?

    lol, I don't really think that, but the school could see things that way.
    You mean the right to take a person to a public event, not a private religious meeting, the same way everyone else does? The girl was doing nothing wrong.

    The school seems to forget that minorities deserve equal treatment under the law, and they seem to forget that discrimination against gays in this fashion is still illegal, that's why the girl contacted the ACLU when her rights were trampled on. Oh, but they remembered just in time to cover their butts and cancel the event for everyone.
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  26. #116
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    You can legislate changes much more easily than you can educate people to accept the wisdom behind the changes. Give it time. The lass in question has made her point -- internationally -- and it will add to the mix.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  27. #117
    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    This thread reads like the worst of what I've come to expect in political/sociological discourse these days. You've all made intelligent, well-thought out arguments, don't get me wrong...

    It just strikes me that there is a presumptive view that everyone must embrace every idea the majority finds favor with.

    Of course the high school in question was expressing bigoted behavior. What bothers me is what Seamus hinted at in his last post, and I'll undercore for effect... you don't win arguments by forcing your view on others... you create partisans that way. Democracies aren't about getting 50.1% of the people to craw laws down the throats of the remaining 49.9% population....

    Catholic priests won't marry gay couples. Should 50.1% of the population (or some small legislative block) pass laws to throw them in jail for not doing so?

    Or should we start a dialogue about these things?

    WTF!?
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  28. #118
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone View Post
    you don't win arguments by forcing your view on others...
    sums it up

  29. #119

    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    How many more 16 year olds are going to miss out on a normal, happy life until that other 49.9% figure out that they are children just like all the others, not spawns of Satan? These are real people being ostracized for something as unchangeable as eye color, not some abstract political debate.

  30. #120
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: If it wasn't so mean-spirited, it would be funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    How many more 16 year olds are going to miss out on a normal, happy life until that other 49.9% figure out that they are children just like all the others, not spawns of Satan? These are real people being ostracized for something as unchangeable as eye color, not some abstract political debate.
    I just almost completely agreed with PanzerJaeger.

    The girl is being oppressed by the bigoted organisation. She is born in that area, raised there, she been to that schooll all her highschool life, then suddenly denied the prom because she prefers the company of other females.

    She isn't an outcast, she has as much right as anyone else to be there. It is just plain discrimination against her.

    What is there to debate? The school was evidently wrong and both sides as said as much.
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