Suggestion concerning the Romans

[TancredTheNorman]

This is something of a gameplay suggestion, but perhaps for Rome's Marian Reforms, in EB 2 instead of first needing to win the campaign before you get the Marian Reforms, or having unbelievable luck the requirements are

172 BC
Carthage is destroyed
25-30 provinces
Must have (All Italian Cities) Some Greek Cities, all former Carthaginian holdings in Spain
Must have a treasury of one million sesterces
must have at least 6 Latifundia in Italy
Sweboz Aediu or Arverni must still be alive

To balance it perhaps The Marian soldiers should only have a discipline advantage over earlier Romans and be very expensive?

[Megas Methuselah]

What's the historial evidence to backup your suggestion?

[mountaingoat]

do you know otherwise?

[TancredTheNorman]

What's the historial evidence to backup your suggestion?

Easy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugurtha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vercellae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aquae_Sextiae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Wars


Those are just some of the post Marian wars, they do not suggest that Roman power was uncontested, nor do they seem to show Rome having an easy time. At the moment the Marian Reforms will only ever come along if you are uncontested. These are things that happened around Marius, and because EB is to a large extent changing history is there anything wrong with allowing the reforms to happen earlier? Thanks to the diplomacy AI Carthage will be destroyed earlier, the Spain will be in your sights earlier, the Sweboz simulating the Tuetones and Cimbri will be by earlier...

I also did make suggestions about making things closer to Rome's actual power then it is depicted now, i.e. Carthage has been destroyed and the Romans are struggling to subdue Spain while most of Gaul is still free, and Greece being partly subdued following the campaign of Aemilius Paulus. I also suggested making the Marian Reforms give less impact because they won't be so hard to get, the point being that Rome was already a formidable power before Marius, and the reforms happening the way they did was only due to a crisis (not conquest of the world mandating a stronger army).

[Megas Methuselah]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugurtha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vercellae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aquae_Sextiae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Wars

Nah bro, sorry for being unclear, but I meant these:

25-30 provinces
Must have a treasury of one million sesterces
To balance it perhaps The Marian soldiers should only have a discipline advantage over earlier Romans and be very expensive

[TancredTheNorman]

Nah bro, sorry for being unclear, but I meant these:

It's ok, and the reason for that is Marius didn't change as much as the description of the reforms would have us think.

To start with soldiers were still recruited from citizens and latins, they just didn't have to fit a property requirement or provide anything, the state provided the weapons. Marius was not an inventor, he didn't create the Lorica Hamata, it was already available.

The reason for 25-30 provinces is in order to make sure the Roman player is making progress similar to what the Romans actually did, the size of the Republic's Empire was much smaller before Marius then people think.

One million sesterces is in order to simulate the flow of gold into Rome following the Punic Wars changing Roman Society.


Marian Soldiers also don't need to be recruitable everywere, perhaps only in provinces the Romans actually owned, had fully developed, unsubdued, and loyal at the time of Marius? I should have included this in the original but being recruitable everywere is going way overboard, citizenship was still required.

So in other words the places that get to train Marians under my idea would be Italy, Sicily, Corsica, Gallia Narbonensis (Tolosa) Illyricum, with Africa Procunsularis excluded because the Optimates rejected colonization, and caused the Gracchi's attempt at it to fail.

Destroying Carthage is only because the Punic Wars are what gave birth to the Empire outside of Italy.

[seienchin]

I also think the Marian Reforms should need less provinces, because in EB1, when you got the marian reforms, your empire had to be almost as large as rome to augustus times, which is in my opinion a bad decission, because as Tancred said, the marian reforms came because they were needed and after the reforms romes power grew incredible after a short period of time.