Suggestion concerning the Romans

[Ca Putt]

looks like ca 50 provinces

[TancredTheNorman]

looks like ca 50 provinces

Not even close to that.

The map is also out of context, the Asian provinces were lost to Mithradates, and much of the African province to Jugartha, and Massalia was technically independent, and the map in EB terms gives the Romans Gergovia which they didn't have.

Besides I compared map to EB provinces, you don't get anywere near 50 provinces that way.

[Mulceber]

Nah, that looks like about...48, if I had to guess. Right now my Romani game is about the same size, maybe slightly smaller - mainly in Spain, and without the African Provinces, and it's at 41. So if you add about 4 provinces in Spain, 4 in Africa, and maybe one for that Northern wing in Gaul, that would make 50, but minus two since the Romans didn't have Panonia or Byzantium (both of which I have). -M

[V.T. Marvin]

Well, according to my counting the green area of the map equals 19 provinces in EB, while the orange one adds further 28 provinces. So if from 20-25 provinces the possibility of achieving CONDITIONAL reforms would be unlocked and from 45-50 it was made significantly easier to achieve (for instance the precise requirement for certain character traits would no longer ne necessary) or even unconditional, it would in effect might be fairly fair trade-off between historicity and gameplay, IMO.

[Reno Melitensis]

Very interesting discussion, but you must not forget that the reforms of Marius where not so drastic and dramatic as some argue. First he wanted the Senate to give him additional troops. By the time of the Gracchi the minimum requirement for military service was already at a minimum, and Rome was at a difficulty raising legions on the old citizen system. Marius simply asked the proletarii to join him with the promise of glory and booty. These men where those that served as Velites and light troops in the manipular legions. The main reason for this crises was the huge number of slave from Carthage, Numantia and other regions imported in Italy and work in the Latifundas. So in my opinian one of the triggers for the Marian reforms in EB II must be that at least Rome is a huge city and three other cities must reach large city plus seven Latifundas built in Italaia, and off course a not late than and not early than date. These where the main reasons why Rome became a super power, and in EB terms if it is not Carthage that falls, any other faction will do, we are not playing for accuracy but for fun. After 272 BC all historical context with the game is lost.

Cheers.

[Macilrille]

Do not count green area, look in my timeline; 42-43 cities.

[TancredTheNorman]

I might just be counting wrong, but the map doesn't look like too many provinces, I was guessing 4 African, 9 Italian, 3 Sicilian, 3 Islands, 10 Greek, 7 Spanish for a total of 36?, and making the remaining 14 provinces could mean you must destroy a faction.

I also as I pointed out propose that the quality difference between Marian and pre-Marian soldiers be drastically reduced, and the area of recruitment also be drastically reduced although it should still be higher compared to Polybian and Camillan.