Results 1 to 30 of 159

Thread: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In ancient Middle East, driving Assyrian war machines...
    Posts
    3,991
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Islamic Terrorism does oppose the West Ideologically. They want the West out of the Middle eastern because we are Westernising (read: corrupting). The attacks in America, Britain, and Spain etc. come from an Imperialistic rhetoric which seeks to "conquer the infidel". This is different to, say, Northern Ireland where most people will prefer to give up violence when their living conditions improve. If you improve the living conditions of peoples in the Middle East the Islamists will fight harder.

    As far as opposing enemies ideologically, that's not really true. Most wars are fought over material resources.
    Irronically True.... as they always think every of the western "donations and aid", are "tribute" mentioned in qur'an.... every fanatics here always think about that...

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
    * Watch the mind-blowing game : My Little Ponies : The Mafia Game!!! *

    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    mayo
    Posts
    4,833

    Default Re: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    Irronically True.... as they always think every of the western "donations and aid", are "tribute" mentioned in qur'an.... every fanatics here always think about that...
    Who told you that????? thats pure rubbish if aid was seen as tribute they would hardly go around killing and kidnapping aid workers now would they
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  3. #3
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    10,415

    Default Re: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

    At least Mr. Pape's analysis provides a comprehensible motivation that, if correct, possibly suggests different, more productive "ways out". The trouble with the "crazy Islamist" theory of 'know your enemy' is that it was either un-actionable, or doomed to a lifetime's-long struggle to win; a direction it seemed more and more to me, we were headed.

    OTOH, we must be careful to examine any end-game theories based on this motivational model, to be sure it isn't just wishful thinking driving our conclusions.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  4. #4
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    Who told you that????? thats pure rubbish if aid was seen as tribute they would hardly go around killing and kidnapping aid workers now would they
    Regrettably, foreign aid is all to often a way for the leadership cadre of a given state to feather their own personal nests; often therefore is connected with the corrupt powers that be (and therefore condemned with them); carries the implicit "we're better off than you are you poor pathetic souls" attitude that so many find galling; and actually provides some help to people in need.

    Foreign Aid has purchased so much good will for the USA around the world over the last half century...er...strike that.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  5. #5
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

    A few quick thoughts:


    - Pape analysed all suicide terrorist attacks. (Did he?)
    He did not analyse all those who wish to compel a democracy to remove combat forces from territory. I think we've yet to witness the first Argentinian blowing himself up for the Falklands.

    Even so, just because most territorial demand does not know suicide teror, does not mean that suicide terror is not about territorial demand.


    - Maybe a suicide terrorist attack only gets qualified as such if it is accompanied by some understood - if even unspoken - demand.


    - Maybe private frustration, anger can find a 'meaningful' outlet in suicide terror in societies where there is a lingering grievance. Lots of people want to hate a group, want to 'shoot them all, that'll teach 'em'. I still think the suicide bomber is often close to the Western school shooter or 'man kills everybody at his office / home, then slains himself' type. These last two do not have a ready noble cause in which to cast their action.


    - The thing with suicide terrorism, as contrasted to other terrorism, is that the perpetrator must have a group identity. One is by definition never a martyr for a particularistic cause. This explains why suicide terror is linked with, limited to, religion, nationhood or equally strongly felt group identities. Next to a shared identity, there must also be a common gain.
    Some religions have a closer connection between teritorial demands and religious identity thanh others.
    Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 03-18-2010 at 22:50.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  6. #6
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: The Logic and Strategy of Suicide Terrorism

    It's an interesting point.

    In purely methodological terms, he doesn't have enough of an n to assert that this factor is the dominant factor in decision-making in such instances. This is understandable, of course, as most of the population in this data-set is not readily available for research.

    However, his point seems an interesting one. I have no doubt that territorialism is part of the motivation factors at play here. I strongly suspect, however, that it is only part of the set of factors (albeit his point that it is all too often a incorrectly dismissed is valid) at play in someone making such a choice.

    I do think there is a cultural sense of the value of life at play here as well. In the West, we are taught that each individual matters. This does not obviate suicide attacks, nor suicidal/near suicidal efforts in certain circumstances -- and we usually pin medals on them. Nevertheless, we simply do not come from a culture where the worth of the individual is sublimated to that of the collective to the extent that I believe obtains here.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO