is there free will?

**gaelic cowboy** · 03-23-2010, 01:20

Originally Posted by The Stranger

a question:

if there is no rational mind which makes choices do people still have free will? and if not, when a person has no free will, are they no longer free?

We can still make choices when in an irrational mind so no your question is wrong

**Beskar** · 03-23-2010, 02:07

Re-reading the OP, I think it might be more towards people with learning disabilities or mental illness. Yes, they still have free-will, if it is that.

**KukriKhan** · 03-23-2010, 02:41

is there free will?

Of course there is. Because I will it, as do you (all). Without it, there is no randomization or chaos or anarchy, only rock-solid predictability. It is, after all, the Original SIN of Judeo-Christo-Muslo philosophy and tradition, which we are all supposed to be cured of by LAW (a subservience of our free will to a greater good), or a savior.

**Centurion1** · 03-23-2010, 02:45

Who says there is no rational mind? I need more context.

mentally impaired, small children is what i think he is hinting at as beskar has answered.

**Beskar** · 03-23-2010, 03:32

There may be limited conceptual and educated choices in comparison, but there is still free will.

**CountArach** · 03-23-2010, 07:58

I follow Sartre on this one, and say that yes there is free will and that we can know this through angst and anxiety.

**The Stranger** · 03-23-2010, 11:16

to avoid confusion, the question is hypothetical. i dont conclude there is no rational mind, but if there is none, what would be the case.

Sasaki i will come back to your question soon. and as to beskar, that is not what i meant. i mean more, do we have control over our own actions or are they determined. if you can predict my actions but not alter them than you have no control, so my will is still free if already was in the first place.

the modern definition of free will, at least in the dictionaries includes the requirement of rationality.

Free will is the purported ability of rational agents to exercise control over their actions, decisions, or choices to such an extent that they can be held responsible for their selections. (wikipedia)

“Free Will” is a philosophical term of art for a particular sort of capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives. (stanford)

and so the list continues.

maybe i should add another question, does an animal have free will. an animal like a pig per example.

**The Stranger** · 03-23-2010, 11:24

Originally Posted by CountArach

I follow Sartre on this one, and say that yes there is free will and that we can know this through angst and anxiety.

meh but sartre's idea(l) of freedom and free will is unliveable. more over its unrational. so if we would apply the modern definition of free will to it, we would still not have free will according to the definition while sartre does contribute free will to the person in such cases.