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Thread: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinqtillus Varus..."

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    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinqtillus Varus..."

    Now, first time I played Sweboz I played them much as I played Rome and though I managed to win I have since refined my tactics, largely thanks to Duguntz’ talking of ambushes. I may not be the best to pen down this advice, as there are much better tacticians on the forum than I. However, they have kept silent, so if I start we can hope they peep up as replies.

    Definitions:

    LI = Line infantry, infantry with some armour and a shield, often spearmen.

    SI = Shock Infantry, infantry with little armour, but high shock value, Clubbers and Lugian Swordsmen are examples. Their role is much the same as…

    FI = Fright-Infantry, infantry that scares enemies, often with little armour or even a shield, relying on shock affect and lethal weapons to kill or rout enemies, Falxmen, Skadugangaz, Wodanaworgaz or the naked Celts.

    Mi = Missile, Skutjonez, Medininkas, Iaosatae, do not bother with others in the north and Skutjonez only until you can build Medininkas.

    HI = Heavy Infantry, apart from your FM, mostly something you dream about, infantry with metal armour and shield, FMs & Ferulharjaz. Sweboz FMs should not languish in cities, but you also need rulers to heighten your income as Sweboz economy generally is troublesome.

    Ca = Cavalry, most of the game you can only dream about Heavy Cavalry, so we will not include them, Ridaharjoz and Leuce Epos mostly, best for circling and throwing javelins at enemies backs then charging wavering units.

    Notice that I do not use skirmishers as Sweboz, in effect they are just worse Line Infantry. So I see no need to, as Getai and Romans I do use them.

    The Sweboz’ strengths are Morale, Fear and dishing out damage, my tactic emphasizes this.



    On the strategic map you should always- always end movement in ambush in woods; always!! Even if it means that you are not moving maximum movement at all. Thus I shall assume that all battles take place with some woods to hide in on the battle map. Aim for defensive battles (it is pretty hard to pull of Ambushes if the enemy is defensive).

    My stacks are most often full or near to it, and contain the following:
    • 1-4 HI (minimum 1 FM)
    • 2-4 Mi vs other barbs, 1-3 vs SPQR
    • 2- 3 Ca
    • 2- 4 FI
    • 2- 4 SI
    • Rest LI, minimum 8!

    I usually set up line of Line Infantry and Heavy Infantry with Missiles in front and two scary units behind and the cavalry behind on the flanks, or hiding somewhere.

    Like this


    -Mi-----Mi-------------------Mi------------
    ---HI—LI—LI—LI—HI—LI—LI—LI—HI---
    -------------------No units-----------------
    --FI-----------------SI-----------------FI—

    This one assumes that the Cavalry is hiding somewhere else. Notice the slight overweight of missile on the left flank to better shoot behind the enemy shields.

    This formation should be in formation, defensive/guard mode and with Fire At Will on, except the FI and SI behind the line and not in guard mode. Missile should either FAW or target specific enemy formations depending on circumstances (for more see the Guide to Archery).

    Meanwhile, hiding in woods nearby you keep your cavalry hiding and elsewhere you hide 2- 3 SI and/or FI. Cavalry with Skirmish Mode and FAW off, so they do not reveal themselves. The hiding infantry should also have FAW off and if at all possible be in a flanking position to the guys attacking your main line.

    Like this.



    X
    X
    X




    ------------Enemy Line-----------
    -----------Main---Line----------
    Hope you see what I mean.
    Notice that this means setting up back, no heroic charges here. They are too costly.

    As the enemy close, your missile pull back through your line to the space left there for them, when they have used app. 75% of their missiles, stop firing. This is pretty important as Sweboz, you shall see later why.

    As the enemy closes your men will discharge javelins and cause losses. Keep in Guard Mode as the lines engage and the hand to hand starts. Meanwhile, move your cavalry behind the enemy line to shower them with Javelins or have them pick off the enemy general with javelins if he has not engaged yet (against the stupid AI, he will have charged at this point usually and is being killed by your infantry- even the best cavalry cannot last in melee against the Sweboz, especially if at this point you let the SI behind the line charge in with their clubs or large swords and cut him to shreds or club him to goo.

    Your men will not tire much by this while the enemies will. The next is a point of timing, but…
    When the enemy has started to waver because of losses, exhaustion and your FI (which can start to circle just before this point), you reveal the hiding SI and charge them in from a flank or behind the enemy. Just before this happens, you change from Guard/Defensive Mode and attack, also charging your FI in (from behind your line or a flank if you have used them to circle) and letting your archers rain fire on the enemy. The combined effects of this will rout anyone pretty soon thereafter.

    This simple tactic will take care of most of your battles. If the enemy keeps defensive, move the formation forwards and re-hide the SI behind the line at first. See if your missiles can lure them to an attack by shooting at them. If they can, see above, and if not, move your cavalry and SI behind or flanking the enemy. Then charge with everything but the missile (now changing to Fire-Arrows) and FI who you keep for effect just behind the fighting line and time their charge at some wavering enemy. More bloody, but such is always the attacker’s lot.

    I have not fought Steppe armies with the Sweboz, so I cannot say for certain how to deal with them, but I would imagine setting up in woods for protection (you are lightly armoured) and ambushing them with hidden units is imperative for success. As is a heavy emphasis on your own missile troops, I suspect.

    If you succeed in a true Ambush on the long enemy marching column, I have found that hiding the Ca, SI and FI opposite the main line and only charging them in as the enemy has engaged your main line is the best way to go; so basically a variation of the above.

    Against a Human player, who would know that the woods on the battlemap are full of Ambushes and send Skirmishers and Skirmisher Cavalry to scout I would set up one or two fake ambushes and let him find them as a way of lulling him into a false sense of security before springing the real one.

    This should give you the groundwork to make Augustus bang his head against the walls ;-)
    Good luck or RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGHHHH!!!!!

    An example of how to do it and how not to do it:
    63 Germanicus, however, followed Arminius as he fell back on the wilds, and at the earliest opportunity ordered the cavalry to ride out and clear the p351level ground in the occupation of the enemy. Arminius, who had directed his men to close up and retire on the woods, suddenly wheeled them round; then gave the signal for his ambush in the glades to break cover. The change of tactics threw our horse into confusion. Reserve cohorts were sent up; but, broken by the impact of the fugitive columns, they had only increased the panic, and the whole mass was being pushed towards swampy ground, familiar to the conquerors but fatal to strangers, when the Caesar came forward with the legions and drew them up in line of battle. This demonstration overawed the enemy and emboldened the troops, and they parted with the balance even.

    Shortly afterwards, the prince led his army back to the Ems, and withdrew the legions as he had brought them, on shipboard:19 a section of the cavalry was ordered to make for the Rhine along the coast of the Northern Ocean. Caecina, who led his own force, was returning by a well-known route, but was none the less warned to cross the Long Bridges as rapidly as possible.20 These were simply a narrow causeway, running through a wilderness of marshes and thrown up, years before, by Lucius Domitius;21 the rest was a slough — foul, clinging mud intersected by a maze of rivulets. Round about, the woods sloped gently from the plain; but now they were occupied by Arminius, whose forced march along the shorter roads had been too quick for the Roman soldier, weighted with his baggage and accoutrements. Caecina, none too certain how to relay the old, broken-down bridges and at the same time hold off the enemy, decided to p353mark out a camp where he stood, so that part of the men could begin work while the others accepted battle.

    64 Skirmishing, enveloping, charging, the barbarians struggled to break the line of outposts and force their way to the working parties. Labourers and combatants mingled their cries. Everything alike was to the disadvantage of the Romans — the ground, deep in slime and ooze, too unstable for standing fast and too slippery for advancing — the weight of armour on their backs — their inability amid the water to balance the •pilum for a throw. The Cherusci, on the other hand, were habituated to marsh-fighting, long of limb, and armed with huge lances to wound from a distance. In fact, the legions were already wavering when night at last released them from the unequal struggle.

    Success had made the Germans indefatigable. Even now they took no rest, but proceeded to divert all streams, springing from the surrounding hills, into the plain below, flooding the ground, submerging the little work accomplished, and doubling the task of the soldiery. Still, it was Caecina's fortieth year of active service as commander or commanded, and he knew success and danger too well to be easily perturbed. On balancing the possibilities, he could see no other course than to hold the enemy to the woods until his wounded and the more heavily laden part of the column passed on: for extended between mountain and morass was a level patch which would just allow an attenuated line of battle. The fifth legion was selected for the right flank, the twenty-first for the left; the first was to lead the van, the twentieth to stem the inevitable pursuit.

    p355 65 It was a night of unrest, though in contrasted fashions. The barbarians, in high carousal, filled the low-lying valleys and echoing woods with chants of triumph or fierce vociferations: among the Romans were languid fires, broken challenges, and groups of men stretched beside the parapet or staying amid the tents, unasleep but something less than awake. The general's night was disturbed by a sinister and alarming dream: for he imagined that he saw Quintilius Varus risen, blood-bedraggled, from the marsh, and heard him calling, though he refused to obey and pushed him back when he extended his hand. Day broke, and the legions sent to the wings, either through fear or wilfulness, abandoned their post, hurriedly occupying a level piece of ground beyond the morass. Arminius, however, though the way was clear the attack, did not immediately deliver his onslaught. But when he saw the baggage-train caught in the mire and trenches; the troops around it in confusion; the order of the standards broken, and (as may be expected in a crisis) every man quick to obey his impulse and slow to hear the word of command, he ordered the Germans to break in. "Varus and the legions," he cried, "enchained once more in the old doom!" And, with the word, he cut through the column at the head of a picked band, their blows being directed primarily at the horses. Slipping in their own blood and the marsh-slime, the beasts threw their riders, scattered all they met, and trampled the fallen underfoot. The eagles caused the greatest difficulty of all, as it was impossible either to advance them against the storm of spears or to plant them in the water-logged soil. Caecina, while attempting to keep the front intact, fell with p357his horse stabbed under him, and was being rapidly surrounded when the first legion interposed. A point in our favour was the rapacity of the enemy, who left the carnage to pursue the spoils; and towards evening the legions struggled out on to open and solid ground. Nor was this the end of their miseries. A rampart had to be raised and material sought for the earthwork; and most of the tools for excavating soil or cutting turf had been lost. There were no tents for the companies, no dressings for the wounded, and as they divided their rations, foul with dirt or blood, they bewailed the deathlike gloom and that for so many thousands of men but a single day now remained.

    66 As chance would have it, a stray horse which had broken its tethering and taken fright at the shouting, threw into confusion a number of men who ran to stop it. So great was the consequent panic (men believed the Germans had broken in) that there was a general rush to the gates, the principal objective being the decuman, which faced away from the enemy and opened the better prospects of escape. Caecina, who had satisfied himself that the fear was groundless, but found command, entreaty, and even physical force, alike powerless to arrest or detain the men, threw himself flat in the gateway; and pity in the last resort barred a road which led over the general's body. At the same time, the tribunes and centurions explained that it was a false alarm.

    67 He now collected the troops in front of his quarters, and, first ordering them to listen in silence, warned them of the crisis and its urgency:— "Their one safety lay in the sword; but their resort p359to it should be tempered with discretion, and they must remain within the rampart till the enemy approached in the hope of carrying it by assault. Then, a sally from all sides — and so to the Rhine! If they fled, they might expect more forests, deeper swamps, and a savage enemy: win the day, and glory and honour were assured." He reminded them of all they loved at home, all the honour they had gained in camp: of disaster, not a word. Then, with complete impartiality, he distributed the horses of the commanding officers and tribunes — he had begun with his own — to men of conspicuous gallantry; the recipients to charge first, while the infantry followed.

    68 Hope, cupidity, and the divided counsels of the chieftains kept the Germans in equal agitation. Arminius proposed to allow the Romans to march out, and, when they had done so, to entrap them once more in wet and broken country; Inguiomarus advocated the more drastic measures dear to the barbarian:— "Let them encircle the rampart in arms. Storming would be easy, captives more plentiful, the booty intact!" So, at break of day, they began demolishing the fosses, threw in hurdles, and struggled to grasp the top of the rampart; on which were ranged a handful of soldiers apparently petrified with terror. But as they swarmed up the fortifications, the signal sounded to the cohorts, and cornets and trumpets sang to arms. Then, with a shout and a rush, the Romans poured down on the German rear. "Here were no trees," they jeered, "no swamps, but a fair field and an impartial Heaven." Upon the enemy, whose thoughts were of a quick despatch and a few half-armed p361defenders, the blare of trumpets and the flash of weapons burst with an effect proportioned to the surprise, and they fell — as improvident in failure as they had been headstrong in success. Arminius and Inguiomerus abandoned the fray, the former unhurt, the latter after a serious wound; the rabble was slaughtered till passion and the daylight waned. It was dusk when the legions returned, weary enough — for wounds were in greater plenty than ever, and provisions in equal scarcity — but finding in victory strength, health, supplies, everything.

    Edited to add, strategically you want to get the settlements that can produce Medininkas, Kludda Lugiae and Skaudagangaz ASAP and build them to a level where you can produce these for use on the battlefield.
    Last edited by Macilrille; 03-23-2010 at 12:14. Reason: Oups, should be QuinCtillius, oh well...
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
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  2. #2
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Excellent, +rep if you bother to join TWC.

    Allow me to disagree on the uses of skirmishers (i.e. Jugundiz, to a lesser degree Immanae - and Komatai, if we move farther southeast). They are one of the best light skirmisher types and make great garrison troops. I like to use them, especially in the initial blitzing battles where they can kill a lot of unarmoured dudes.
    Their javelin range is very nearly twice that of your ordinary units, which is very important IMO (I'm more of a defensive, "Greek" player - let dem enemy charge and "hail" them with missiles, har har).
    Last edited by athanaric; 03-23-2010 at 11:57.




    Swêboz guide for EB 1.2
    Tips and Tricks for New Players
    from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.

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    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinqtillus Varus..."

    Nah, my field tactics as Sweboz usually involve the use of Skirmishers and if I can in later times, multiple duguntz type units from all the Germania... just like what the description said (unless that was ambush or siege)

    1) Typical early, "Sweboz in poverty" battle line... often that was royal army
    1x FM
    1 x Skutjanz (Sj) (skirmish off, fire at will on)
    4 x Juguntz (Jg) (in loose formation)
    2 x Duguntz (Dg)
    2 x Sloxonez (Sx)

    --- Jg --- Jg --- Jg --- Jg ---

    ----- Dg --- FM --- Dg -----
    - Sx -------- Sj --------- Sx -

    First, line of Juguntz are sent to pepering enemies with all their javelins, as well as constant skirmishing against enemy formation, the usual enemies I face (in field, not siege) this phase is those pesky Celts, and they usually only have crappy cavalry, so when they try to charge my Juguntz, they got pwnd.
    After some while, and the javelins was spent, if the enemies are still stationary, they'll assume position at the wing beside the duguntz... but if enemies pressed on, I'll let my Juguntz to fight the enemy (in loose formation) for a while.
    And after that, Either Juguntz go fighting or not (usually go fight), the duguntz spent all their ammo on enemies, the Generals and his men charge down the center of enemy line, and the duguntz soon follow in hand to hand combat, if Juguntz are allready reformed that time (not in fightin condition), they'll help their seniors to fight the battle line at wings.
    Sloxonez will soon run to the flanks, and cudgelling the enemy's head from behind... -> Epic win

    2) Typical Early Game Border guards, "Sweboz Junior Training" battle line... (not too poor, but had enough money to grab some more boys on teh conscription)
    1x FM
    1x Skutjanz
    8x Juguntz (no skirmish, and often mixed with Chatti Juguntz that had club as well)
    4x Duguntz (If can, I'll mix them with Chatti Duguntz, Cherusci Duguntz, or Gautiz Duguntz... if Bastarnae Duguntz are present, I'll place them on the flank)
    4x Sloxonez
    2x Reidonez (can be any CHEAP horsemen, and I prefer celtic ones) (Rd)

    --- Jg -- Jg -- Jg -- Jg -- Jg -- Jg -- Jg -- Jg -- Jg ---

    - Sx -- Sx -- Dg -- Dg -- FM -- Dg -- Dg -- Sx -- Sx -
    - Rd ----------------------- Sj ---------------------- Rd -

    First, sent the line of Young warriors to coragerously march near the enemies and showering them with Javelins... after that, Charge the center of the enemy line and try to overpower them with initial shock
    Soon after fight started, use FM to led the main charge and use Duguntz to use any exploit in the enemy's line, and I'll sent Sloxonez to flank if the situation possible, and try to create overwhelming press on the flank...
    While the cav ride into the enemies' back, throwing javelins, and finally charge them down...
    You may ask, what the hell u use tons of Skirmishers? well, Juguntz is ridiculously cheap for infantry force with such power and potential, in fact, later game "elite" warriors of mine are mostly gold chevroned Juguntz.


    3) "Sweboz Badass" battle line - Using Frightening troops, but ironically more often celtic naked spearmen (occasional wargozez) more on teh flanks, and one at the center, but still use that many of skirmishers...

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    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Thanks.

    I am on TWC, but not much. My activity is here, I play EB, so the EB Forums is my playground;-) feel free to copy it to there, or preferably link to it here. Or even better, copy my post listing tactical advice in the AAR there and keep it updated or link to it.

    Well, I do not use Juguntiz or Immane unless I have to, archers/slingers serve me better. Komitai I do, but this guide by and large ignores the regional units you get when you move out of Germania, they fall into the same categories anyway, so people can elaborate for themselves. And this concerns only Battlefield tactics, not strategy, so garrisions I ignore as well. Though If I have to say something on it, I prefer cheap levy + missile; max killing power as enemy approaches & someone who can hold the breach.

    You did remind me of one edit though, thanks.
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

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    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    I'm on it. Perhaps we can make a grand Swêboz comprehensive guide there, including tactics, strategy, blitzing tips (for those who want to avoid Rhesus the Rabid Monkey...) and a unit guide (they just look soo gorgeous).
    Last edited by athanaric; 03-23-2010 at 12:33.




    Swêboz guide for EB 1.2
    Tips and Tricks for New Players
    from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.

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    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Dunno, and dunno if I am qualified for it either. This was my attempt at tactics and I hope that it will help as well as spark good debate with ideas from real experts like the Archery Guide did.

    Thanks for being on the linking over there.
    Last edited by Macilrille; 03-23-2010 at 12:45.
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

    Balloon count: 13

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    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Don't worry, I'll just link your threads there.




    Swêboz guide for EB 1.2
    Tips and Tricks for New Players
    from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.

  8. #8
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Really nice tactics indeed! I'm proud to have inspired you in your ambushes tactics! continue the good work it's a pleasure to read (and try on the battlefield!!)
    Opinions are like bacteries : we all have, but it's better to keep them for ourself... (By me!)

    generously given by Nachtmeister
    generously given by Macilrille for Sweboz combat tactics
    Generously given by Brennus




  9. #9
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Few things are more fun in EB than ambushing Romans while shouting "Varus and the Legions, entwined once more in their old doom!".

    Thanks for the inspiration. In fact, have a for enhancing my EB fun. i have only given out two before, so balloons given by me are rare.
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

    Balloon count: 13

  10. #10
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Macilrille View Post
    Few things are more fun in EB than ambushing Romans while shouting "Varus and the Legions, entwined once more in their old doom!".

    Thanks for the inspiration. In fact, have a for enhancing my EB fun. i have only given out two before, so balloons given by me are rare.
    i accept it with joy and Honor! it is true that from all battle of all faction I tried, the most thrilling one are those ambushes, especially when we get the chance to fight them in the night! it add to the effect of surprise (and to the visual!)
    Opinions are like bacteries : we all have, but it's better to keep them for ourself... (By me!)

    generously given by Nachtmeister
    generously given by Macilrille for Sweboz combat tactics
    Generously given by Brennus




  11. #11
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    I quite like the Roman Triplex Apex formation against Hellenes as well, a pleasure it is, and after the Marian Reforms I get quite a thrill out of facing anyone with them too. But, the feeling is different for ambushing Sweboz, I think it is a timing thing.

    But, have you no refinement to my guide?
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

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  12. #12
    Member Member WinsingtonIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Great guide, I've been meaning to start up a Sweboz campaign, and this just might convince me to actually do so.

    Just one question, you put falxmen under fright infantry? I may be misremembering, but I thought neither Drapanai or Bastarnae caused fear in enemy units.... Shouldn't they be under shock infantry? But I guess that's really just nitpicking as their role is essentially the same.
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  13. #13
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    I am pretty certain they have frightened enemies in my battles.

    About Sweboz I can only say, try it!!
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

    Balloon count: 13

  14. #14
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Well, i like your way of doing things! so i cannot add very much. I fight in the same way but with different disposition. so instead of ''adding'' to your post, I may end upgiving another strategy! Still ambush style though. i'll try to explain it as clearly as you explained yours.

    First, my army composition, for an offensive army (on pillaging or invadine mission) is a composition relying on shok, mostly. using Macirille abreviations for describing my army, it would be like this :

    LI x 4 Different types of Duguntiz (or 5, depending on wich faction you're fighting against)
    SI x 6 (Slogonez, Swordmen)
    CAV x 2
    HI x 3 - 4 (depending on how many FM i've with me, as i keep always more than 1 FM in every army)
    FI x 2 (Black naked spearmen...)
    SKI (skirmishers) x2

    (of corse, this is an example of army and can varry)
    Macilrille dispositions is quiet organised, as a flanking power, wich work very good, indeed. my way is ''disorganiosed'' organisation. it would look like that :

    ----------------SKI---------------------------------SKI
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------SI
    --SI
    --------------------------------------------------------------- SI-SI-----------CAV
    -------SI-SI
    ------------------------FM-LI-LI-FM-LI-LI-FM-FM-------------
    CAV -----------FI ------------------------------------- FI


    Remark that, while disposed ''randomly'' no group is far from another. The Skirmishers at the middle top of the line lure portions of the ennemy. The dumb AI will follow you wherever you bring them (pay attention to their cavalry! The disposition i use is make to separate the ennemy army into small group that subish successive ambushes (on a small scale).

    Attracting one or 2 units of the ennemy toward each of your Shock infantry in ambushing position. if more ennemy unit come and your little ''parties'' alone can't hold the number, then the skirmisher can act as light infantry and attack their back. keep an eye on your cavalry a they'll have to charge repeatingly on their back as your ''teams'' may be outnumbered. Look at the disposition of the ambushing parties, you see that there are some teamed by two, some alone. drag some ennemy troops to your teamed up ambushers, when they engage (surprising the ennemy when ambushing them) jump on their back with the third one (that you hide a bit further). as I said, if three units aren't enough to hold the troops that you lure tehre, your skirmisher and CAV will be useful.

    however, the main ennemy line will come to your line weakened, and your line, with higher moral and higher stamina, will drop the moral of the other army and at that moment you pop yet another surprise, your fear unit, who jump from ambush late in battle, giving a boost to the moral of your troops and a drop to the ennemy's already weakened moraly (maybe even routing one or two unit, and if lucky, ending in a chain rout).

    During that time, your ''ambushing'' teams will probably will have finished with their meal, and will jump on the back of the ennemy line,. This plus the cavalry charges will finish the ennemy off. use your skirmishers ansd cav to kill the routers, the LI to finish some remaining pocket of resistence *(maybe one that a ambushing party would have failed to beat?) and the day is yours!

    So to recapitulate the strategy, it would be a serie of small ambushes, at different places. It is amazing the moral effect that many ambushes can have on ennemy troops. That's the key, plus the fractionement of the ennemy main battle line. The disposition may seem random, but it is not so (the disposition is ''random'' but the strategy make it into ''random'' organisation), and you must pay attention and remember where your groups are, as in the middle of the battle, having multiple fronts, is can become confusing, especially as it is in a forest, so already hard to orient ourselves!

    Hum, it is the first time I try to explain in close details my ''multiple ambushes'' strategy. I hope it is not too confusing!

    Macilrille, I see that, to write so many guides and useful tactics, you are indeed a very patient man! congratulation! :D
    Last edited by Duguntz; 03-23-2010 at 15:13. Reason: the ''grafic'' plan dosen't appear as i wrote it
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  15. #15
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Hey, but what about skirmishers? they are supposed to shield their older brethren...

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  16. #16
    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    to shield? no, they lure in the ambushes! and the helpp in melee after ward, when they finished their javlin in the good old honorific way : in the back of their ennemies!) when the fools fall in your ambush, you just circle round the line with your skirmishers, pelt their back and charge them after... ouuu, and Falx men are great top attack in the back of legions... they eat them for breakfest!
    Last edited by Duguntz; 03-23-2010 at 15:26.
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  17. #17
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Quote Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII View Post
    Great guide, I've been meaning to start up a Sweboz campaign, and this just might convince me to actually do so.
    Have a look at this (shameless self-promotion):
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...98#post2455198


    Just one question, you put falxmen under fright infantry? I may be misremembering, but I thought neither Drapanai or Bastarnae caused fear in enemy units.... Shouldn't they be under shock infantry? But I guess that's really just nitpicking as their role is essentially the same.
    They don't cause fear, only loose heads.

    Fear causing infantry units are:

    Gaesatae
    Tindanotae
    Pictone Neitos
    Worgozez
    Woithiz Watha
    Uirodosios
    Vojinos

    Those available to Suebi are marked in italics.




    Swêboz guide for EB 1.2
    Tips and Tricks for New Players
    from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.

  18. #18
    Member Member WinsingtonIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Macilrille View Post
    About Sweboz I can only say, try it!!
    You know what? I'm gonna start it up right now!
    from Megas Methuselah, for some information on Greek colonies in Iberia.



  19. #19
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Wuuhuuuu!!! Another convert :-D
    Cool, enjoy (I suspect you will). There is a wholly different heroism to playing Sweboz than any other faction I have tried, even Getai.
    *continues to work on Fluvius who still resists coming over to the Sweboz side*
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

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  20. #20
    Sandwich Maker Member Kikaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Here are some of the tactics I use:

    Early game (Celts/other Germans):

    -------skutjonez----------------------skutjonez------- (Guard mode on, skirmish off)
    -duguntz-gaisofulxofrijod-gaisofulxofrijod-duguntz- (Guard mode on)
    -------xosenthozez---------------xosenthozez--------

    With this model: Skutjonez draw missile fire and bear the brunt of enemy charges. GaisofulXo Frijod charge in, once the enemy closes with Skujonez, and hold the enemy in place. Dugunthz exhaust their javelins and charge in to support the GaisofulXo Frijod. Xosenthozez flank.


    Late game (Roman killing):

    -----------------Medjinikos---------------------------------Medjinikos------------------- (Guard on, Skirmish off)
    -Korodrougas-Speutogordoz-Gaizazaljod-Gaizazaljod-Speutogordoz-Korodrougas-1
    --Xosenthozez-Kirwinikos-Xerunoudozez-Xerunoudozez-Kirwinikos-Xosenthozez--2
    -Iaosatae---Curepos--DruXtizbasterniska-Druxtizbasterniska--Curepos---Iaosatae-3

    Medjinikos serve the same purpose as Skujonez above, though they are much better at holding the enemy and can do far greater damage.
    Line 1 is just line infantry. Line 2 can be used to reinforce the line, expand the line, or flank as needed. Line 3 is pure flanking, Iaosatae, should have FAW off until they get behind the enemy, Curepos are mostly for general hunting. Obviously, this a "grand army" and you're probably not going to field more than one. Also note that many units can be interchangeable: maybe you don't like Korodrougas and choose to use Xosenthozez or Gallic swordsmen; maybe you want a scare factor and want to sub out Gaizoz Alje for Uirodusios, Vojinoz, or Skaduganganz; Mori Gaesum are a more versatile alternative to Speutogordoz, as are Appea Gaedotos; DruXtiz Basterniska could be subbed for Kludda Lugiae; Kirwinikos can be subbed out for Slaxonez or Jugundiz Xattisku for a cheaper option or Tekastos, Worgozez, or Teceitos for a more grandiose one.


    Late game (Sauromatae killing):

    6 Medjinkos
    6 Iaosatae
    4 Koroudrogas
    4 Gaizaz Alje
    Just hit the "Auto-calc" button.
    Last edited by Kikaz; 03-25-2010 at 21:18.


  21. #21
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kikaz View Post
    Late game (Sauromatae killing):

    6 Medjinkos
    6 Iaosatae
    4 Koroudrogas
    4 Gaizaz Alje
    Just hit the "Auto-calc" button.
    You can't hit the mighty Horse archers in real open field combat!!! HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!! (seriously... just sneak some forces inside woods, fight only in ambush, and after taking one of their cities, start pumping your own HA

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  22. #22
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    You can't hit the mighty Horse archers in real open field combat!!!
    You can. Advance Roman-style with a charge-proof checker-board system under heavy cover fire. Hit their HAs with foot archers, and the Noble HAs with slingers. Bring some Skythian HA mercs of your own, and one or two units of Teceitos, falxmen, or clubmen to take out their FMs (who are immune to arrows).
    Last edited by athanaric; 03-26-2010 at 16:53.




    Swêboz guide for EB 1.2
    Tips and Tricks for New Players
    from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.

  23. #23
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    You can. Advance Roman-style with a charge-proof checker-board system under heavy cover fire. Hit their HAs with foot archers, and the Noble HAs with slingers. Bring some Skythian HA mercs of your own, and one or two units of Teceitos, falxmen, or clubmen to take out their FMs (who are immune to arrows).
    A must to draw their fire, as if the HA concentrate firing in foot archers, due to the system, the footmen will be devastated... (foot archers- HA ratio in EB are too small)

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  24. #24

    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    I'm sorry to open again an old discussion, but I'm wandering about those units that are mentioned above:
    Skadugangaz
    Wodanaworgaz
    Vojinos
    Tindanotae
    Gaizaz Alje
    I've never saw them in any EB1.2 campaign.. I'm playng a Sweboz campaign now and I' ve conquered a lot of provinces, but I still cant find those units... Instead other units like Worgozez and Woithiz Watha are present in the game but not in the recruiment viewer (wich I still not understand how use it preperly yet).
    Do somebody know something abuot it? I mean, is the game or RV that not work proprly or I'm missing something?
    Thank in advance to anyone hwo could dissipate my doubts..

  25. #25

    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    I think most of the units have been renamed in 1.2. Hence the names in this thread may have changed. Bear in mind I am not a Sweboz player, so there could be a mistake or two in here.

    http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...hp?mp=unitlist
    is quite useful to check as well.

    Skadugangaz = Germanic Naked Spearmen - Silengolandam only.

    Wodanaworgaz = Worgōzez (Wild Mercenary Infantry) ?? - Not available for MIC recruitment. Can't remember if they have been dropped or are as the name implies mercenaries only. I think the latter.

    Vojinos = Slavic Light Spearmen. In the Baltic (from Venedu Tauta onwards)

    Tindanotae = (Mercenary) Gallic "Naked Fanatic" Infantry. Mercenaries

    Gaizaz Alje = Celto-Germanic Spearmen. Lugouw, Nervae-Belgae and other Celtic lands.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Tindanotae are actually the Galatian version of the celtig naked fanatic.

    for the rest d'Arthez is totally correct^^
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
    - Pyrrhus of Epirus

    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  27. #27

    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Sweboz units get a big bonus in woods, I dont think it will matter too much which units you actually use if fighting Romans in a forest...

    About the skirmishers, I found them to be a great value for money unit. When the enemy has been weakened or tired then skirmishers can even fight the enemy in hand to hand, especially in the woods... At the start I had as many skirmishers as line infantry, later I dropped to 1/3.

    I would prefer to use better troops, but until the economy is very strong having skirmishers is a good way to bulk up the army without going broke. Also its more historical :)

  28. #28
    Member Member mikepettyrtw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sweboz Battlefield Tactics, AKA "Quinctilius Varus..."

    Just started my first Sweboz(In EB) campaign on VH camp difficulty. Now in 264BC. Some good stuff. Here is a good strategic tip:
    Don't assault cities after your first 2 years; wait until they sally: battles are way more fun! I found myself trying to remember Hannibal's plan for the battles of Trebia, Lake Trasimene and Cannae. Think of Hannibal's campaigns and you will do well and will maximize your fun. I found this campaign fun very fast. The first 2 years are rough as you have to assault cities so you don't go 40k in debt (I started economic recovery at about 35k in debt). But after that, its amazing to see Eleutheroi stacks get monstered by the same army with the same commanders over and over again. Its amazing to see such a simple starting army (spearmen and FM) take 7 cities. This campaign really tests your tactical know how as early on you have one basic army with no more than 3 different units in it. I am also amazed at the moral of German troops. I could not do the same things with Roman troops. I look forward to more battles!
    PS. Put all your FM in one stack, and combine all troops. Its the bee's knee's!
    I am a Nomad steppe Kha-khan and have been since my first Parthia campaign in vanilla some years ago.
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