A question about walls

[Raygereio]

The biggest improvement for me in Medieval 2 were the castles, both sieging them and being besieged in them was more fun then the regular cities as it was less predictible what would happen - at least in my experience.

Now don't worry, I'm a well aware of the fact that castles themselves are a bit anachronistic in EBII's time period. But will EBII do anything with the concept of having multiple walls you need to defend/attack, instead of just one around the city?

[Megas Methuselah]

Interesting question. I know Carthage (from its description in EB) had something of a double/triple wall. Maybe a large double wall can be built in some settlements, limited by hidden rare resources or something.

Also, I remember reading that the EB Team was planning to do something with this castle/city situation. I'll do a search, brb with a link...

Here. Look under "Nomad Camps."

[Raygereio]

Maybe a large double wall can be built in some settlements, limited by hidden rare resources or something.

Yeah, or perhaps something like the wooden wall the barbarian factions had in EB1; a wall like that could probably be build in more places. Mind you, I have no idea how feasible it is to create those walls in the medieval 2 engine and if it's even possible to have multiple walls in a city.

[Andy1984]

I guess it's impossible to create multiple walls in cities. If it were possible, we would probably have seen them in the Roman preview. (I'm not sure how to read the settlements depicted in the Boii preview, since the large city does seem to contain a very feeble second wooden wall.)

The only alternative around the lack of citadels in non-nomadic settlements would be to switch cities with castles and vice versa: i.e. to give castles to citadel-building cultures and cities to nomadic cultures, contrary to what the team said in the Massilian preview. This would however give birth to two problems: (1) Nomadic settlements would turn out to have a bigger population than their non-nomadic counterparts, which seems unrealistic to me. And (2) nomadic settlements would have more upgrades (6 kind of settlements) than the non-nomadic (who would end up having only 5 levels of castles). Therefore, I believe the team decided to drop the feature of castles with their ring-walls altogether, and to use the castle/city-dichotomy merely to portray nomadic settlements more accurately. A hard decision, but nonetheless perfectly understandable.

kind regards,

Andy

[Megas Methuselah]

IA hard decision, but nonetheless perfectly understandable.

I don't mind, though. The walls are a small issue in the grand sphere of things. I mean, look at what the EB Team has done already! I'm so damn excited!

[satalexton]

I know wall models and skins aren't the highest on the team's priority atm, though it would feel weird to have medieval wooden walls and houses in say.....a nomad camp. >_>

[Horatius Flaccus]

You can probably not build walls in nomad camps?

[Cute Wolf]

I think it was merely change the city_defences, and castle_defences on both building trees, walls on cities and casltes are not a same building in the M2TW EDB though,... but the map plan may speak some difficulty...

[Andy1984]

I don't mind, though. The walls are a small issue in the grand sphere of things. I mean, look at what the EB Team has done already! I'm so damn excited!

So true. It would still be a nice addition however, making plundering and looting provinces (rather than destroying impregnable cities) maybe more rewardfull. Yes, this guy is dreaming of a game that actually gives plunderers and looters the chance to sustain an economy of plunder by devastating enemy tiles. I guess this could be implemented by dropping all prices and incomes for buildings and units drastically, which increases the relative income of plunder and loot. It could also be realized by adding the 'lives off the land'-line of traits as standard for most family members, increasing loot income by several hundreds of percentages. I'm dreaming of a system that gives huge demographic growth penalties to family members whose farms were plundered, triggering food shortages and or pestilence in the next turns,... Dreaming can be sweat. :)

I know wall models and skins aren't the highest on the team's priority atm, though it would feel weird to have medieval wooden walls and houses in say.....a nomad camp. >_>

Since the team is reworking the buildings, I see no reason to assume they aren't going to redo (are have already redone) the skins of the walls.

You can probably not build walls in nomad camps?

That would be an unexpected turn of the team: adding fortifications and (multiple) walls to people who generally didn't even have a fixed residence, and not giving the same citadels to Romani, Hellens or Poeni, who not only had fortifications, but in many occassions also military strongholds in the center of their cities. Livius constantly mentions them through Italy: one city after another that wasn't stormed because of their fortifications. And even if they are stormed and taken, in some occassions the Roman soldiers simply didn't (try to) take the citadels. We know of several Hellenic and Greek cities to have had akropoleis, while Megas Methuselah states the same (or at least the presence of several walls) for Carthage.

I think it was merely change the city_defences, and castle_defences on both building trees, walls on cities and casltes are not a same building in the M2TW EDB though,... but the map plan may speak some difficulty...

An interesting suggestion.

hoping citadels and ringwalls can be integrated in some way into EB2,

Andy

[podoh]

When I read all this, I think it makes sense to switch to current plan into: "castles" for settled provinces, "cities" for nomadic provinces. But probably the team has thought of problems with this we haven't thought of. I'd like to know their thoughts on this idea though.


EDIT: Ow, that's a lot of "thoughts" for such a short post. :)

[Foot]

When I read all this, I think it makes sense to switch to current plan into: "castles" for settled provinces, "cities" for nomadic provinces. But probably the team has thought of problems with this we haven't thought of. I'd like to know their thoughts on this idea though.


EDIT: Ow, that's a lot of "thoughts" for such a short post. :)

Making suggestions without explaining things is remarkably unhelpful. Why would we switch the two, when the mechanics for the castles fit the pastoral settlements (no tax options, endless happiness) better than the city options. If you are thinking of the battlemap then you've mistaken the moddibilty of that area.

Foot

[Cute Wolf]

Making suggestions without explaining things is remarkably unhelpful. Why would we switch the two, when the mechanics for the castles fit the pastoral settlements (no tax options, endless happiness) better than the city options. If you are thinking of the battlemap then you've mistaken the moddibilty of that area.

Foot

Eng... foot, I think I've mention the city_defences and castle_defences structures on the EDB..... and you must allready done the settlement plan swap, right? I meant the battle plan described on descr_cultures thingies or something.... I think that was changeable a bit...

[podoh]

If you are thinking of the battlemap then you've mistaken the moddibilty of that area.

That was indeed what I was thinking about.
I was already fearing that it would be impossible, but I didn't know that for sure. Thanks for clarifying.

[bobbin]

Eng... foot, I think I've mention the city_defences and castle_defences structures on the EDB..... and you must allready done the settlement plan swap, right? I meant the battle plan described on descr_cultures thingies or something.... I think that was changeable a bit...

descr_cultures defines what cities look like on the strat map not the battle map.

It is not as simple as just swapping entries in the EDB, that wouldn't do anything on the battle map, you have to edit things called .world files and it is by far the single most difficult thing to do in modding M2TW, don't expect much in this area for a long time.

[Raygereio]

It is not as simple as just swapping entries in the EDB, that wouldn't do anything on the battle map, you have to edit things called .world files and it is by far the single most difficult thing to do in modding M2TW, don't expect much in this area for a long time.

Oh, bugger. Well it would have been nice, but you can't have everything I suppose.