A Question About Triarii Helmets.

[Badass Buddha]

The Triarii and I think the Early Consular Guard and Italic General units wear what I think is a Corinthian helmet pushed back to the point where the face is exposed, with ear-guards attached to the bottom. What was the point? Why not just wear it normally? Was it just for decorative/ceremonial purposes? Thanks.

[Atilius]

Why not just wear it normally? Was it just for decorative/ceremonial purposes? Thanks.

This is NOT a corinthian helmet, it's known as an Italo- or Apulo-Corinthian helmet. It mimics the appearance of a Corinthian pushed back on the head as you say. But it actually cannot be worn any other way - the face guard and eye holes are too small to be functional and there's no way to tilt them over the face anyway.

[Duguntz]

This is NOT a corinthiam helmet, it's known as an Italo- or Apulo-Corinthian helmet. It mimics the appearance of a Corinthian pushed back on the head as you say. But it actually connot be worn any other way - the face guard and eye holes are too small to be functional and there's no way to tilt them over the face anyway.

Thanks for the info. now, if I might add a question... what's the point of that? Ok, corinthian helmat had a history, history even in mythology sometime represented on mosaic or potery... well, what's the point to make a complicated imitation instead of wearing the original (maybe with modification, to enhence the hearing and the view, as we know/it is said that hearing was very reduces with a corinthian on the head...

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Thanks for the info. now, if I might add a question... what's the point of that? Ok, corinthian helmat had a history, history even in mythology sometime represented on mosaic or potery... well, what's the point to make a complicated imitation instead of wearing the original (maybe with modification, to enhence the hearing and the view, as we know/it is said that hearing was very reduces with a corinthian on the head...

Corinthian helmets, although not practical anymore, were still fashionable. (Hey, they're still fashionable now, when EB was in production a lot of fans complained about their favourite Spartans not having Corinthian helmets anymore, like they had in vanilla RTW.)

Take a Corinthian helmet and cut holes for the ears, you improve hearing a lot, and it still looks good. Make the eyeholes a lot larger, you can see a lot better, and it still looks more or less OK, although the eyeholes no longer appear black, so the effect is much less scary. But, the biggest change was to the mouth and nose area. Cut away the mouth and nose covering so you can actually breathe properly (i.e you are able to pant heavily after very strenuous exertion without wanting to tilt your helmet away from your face) - and hey, it doesn't look like a Corinthian helmet anymore. So that's the biggest problem.

A fake tilted-back Corinthian that lets you breathe properly looks better and more fashionable, while still remaining practical, than a real, improved Corinthian with too much of the front cut away.

[plutoboyz]

Thanks for the info. now, if I might add a question... what's the point of that?...

to trick predator? it works for some Caterpillar.

[Atilius]

...I might add a question... what's the point of that?

They simply liked the way it looked.

[plutoboyz]

...it's known as an Italo- or Apulo-Corinthian helmet...

may I ask? Is it the same helmet used by Pericles and Athena?

[mountaingoat]

Thanks for the info. now, if I might add a question... what's the point of that?

soldier1 @ distance 100 meteres " omg look how tall those barbarians are .. "

soldier1 @ distance 20 meteres " wiat....... THEY HAVE 2 HEADS ! ...ROLF.... RUN !"

[Dutchhoplite]

may I ask? Is it the same helmet used by Pericles and Athena?

Don't think so, tipped back Corinthians most likely.

[Ludens]

now, if I might add a question... what's the point of that?

To stand out from the crowd. In Classical society, it was important to be seen performing your duty as a citizen, especially if you were an aspiring politician. And what duty is more important than defending your city?

may I ask? Is it the same helmet used by Pericles and Athena?

No, they would have worn true Corinthian helmets, not some imitation from an Italian backwater. The Apulo-Corinthian helmet was most likely inspired by the style of those statues, though.

[Badass Buddha]

Excellent. Thank you all.

[-Praetor-]

To stand out from the crowd. In Classical society, it was important to be seen performing your duty as a citizen, especially if you were an aspiring politician. And what duty is more important than defending your city?

In addition, Pericles had a head that protruded to the back, sort of like a conehead. He also liked to use the helmet in that way in order to hide the characteristic shape of his head. (I don't know where I read that, so take this with a pinch of salt)

[jirisys]

soldier1 @ distance 100 meteres " omg look how tall those barbarians are .. "

soldier1 @ distance 20 meteres " wiat....... THEY HAVE 2 HEADS ! ...ROLF.... RUN !"

I don't think they were that stupid... i mean, it was obviously a helmet, but... what do i know, maybe it was for intimidation, besides that, were they equipped with ear-guards like in the game (of course you idiot or else it wouldn't be in the game)

~Jirisys

[plutoboyz]

I don't think they were that stupid... i mean, it was obviously a helmet, but... what do i know, maybe it was for intimidation, besides that, were they equipped with ear-guards like in the game (of course you idiot or else it wouldn't be in the game)

~Jirisys

why not? it work well with samurai armor.

[Megas Methuselah]

From what the historians have been repeatedly saying in this thread, I don't think the helmet was meant to inspire fear. It was supposed to make you look fancy and heroic.

[Cute Wolf]

No, they would have worn true Corinthian helmets, not some imitation from an Italian backwater. The Apulo-Corinthian helmet was most likely inspired by the style of those statues, though.

Seconded ... the second best Luden's quote ever

[Duguntz]

Luden's quote is almost worthy of Romaioktonoi! !!!

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Yay Ludens! You get a balloon for that line!

[jirisys]

I wonder why so many romaioktonon frequent roman-esque titled threads, maybe to spam and to flame? It seems obvious, but, what should I know

~Jirisys (no comment, too bored, oh wait I have one: "Kind of an intellectual bumper sticker: Honk, if your honk is broken. That oughta' hold the average american for a bout a mile and a half" - George Carlin)

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

~Jirisys (no comment, too bored, oh wait I have one: "This is an intellectual sticker: Honk, if your honk is broken. That'a hold the average american for a bout a mile and a half" - George Carlin)

Well, if you want to adopt the Pahlavan shot towards me, then go ahead. (Copying is what the Romans do best, I suppose. Why do we even need Xerox?) But I wasn't even truly flaming, simply congratulating our good man Ludens for telling the truth! And now that is wrong?
Btw, about that "barbarians who haven't had a bath for decades," part in your sig, this is coming from someone who probably uses soap (which those so called "barbarians" invented, what do you know?), the cleaning method of those you defame for being "unwashed".

[jirisys]

Well, if you want to adopt the Pahlavan shot towards me, then go ahead. (Copying is what the Romans do best, I suppose. Why do we even need Xerox?) But I wasn't even truly flaming, simply congratulating our good man Ludens for telling the truth! And now that is wrong?
Btw, about that "barbarians who haven't had a bath for decades," part in your sig, this is coming from someone who probably uses soap (which those so called "barbarians" invented, what do you know?), the cleaning method of those you defame for being "unwashed".

Well, not in favour of flame wars, first bath is not the same as soap, bath is an action that barbarians haven't done for decades (lol ) and soap, is the thing that they use once those miracolous bath are taken , the fact that a "barbarian" invented soap, i do not care, second, what the hell is the "Pahlavan shot", third, copying is wrong, then you shouldn't wear a thureos (hellenics) or use imitation phalanxes (celts), but the mighty helmet, OMG! they are worse than a xerox machine (yeah rite ), third, you only quoted my pre-signature, so your response has no relation whatsoever with my commentary, fourth, while it is true that the romans copied everything, they conquered almost the whole known world, fifth, tell me from whom the marian roman legion was adopted from? sixt, the etruscans also copied the greeks (although they had their own helmets, so it's alright) in the phalanx, they were descendent from the greeks, sevent, it's just a game, it's not like you could travel in time and destroy the roman empire, deal with it, eight, while my sig, contains that part, it's a quote, so i take no responsability of it, besides the fact that i'm wearing it, ninth, i don't go around threads posting: "Yeah! what you said was roman liker! you should be sigged, without adding any useful comment on the query or the thread poster, tenth, i would like to say that, while this points may begin an argument, i wish none, since that would provoque the closing of this thread before it'd due time, i am just defending myself at the post of hannibal, eleventh, i do not care about the roman empire so much that i adore it, no, i just simply like it when playing a game revolving around that time period, i even started a greek campaign to see what it's like, and it's very challenging, even without the roman, AS or epirote threat, twelfth, if any moderator considers this post flaming, please delete the part above

Back to topic, i wonder, wouldn't it be uncomfortable to carry that helmet around (i believe there wasn't much grip to it, so it might fall down very easily), and i ask one more time: were the apulo-corinthian helmet supplied with ear guards like in the game? and, an adittion, triarii are my favorute unit in game (aesthetical-wise) i always try to draw them, but, never get them looking good

~Jirisys (this space gets more and more boring every time)

[Megas Methuselah]

~Jirisys (no comment, too bored, oh wait I have one: "This is an intellectual sticker: Honk, if your honk is broken. That'a hold the average american for a bout a mile and a half" - George Carlin)

I like you.

EDIT: here.

[satalexton]

THe Corinthian Helmet is notorious when it comes to obscuring the hoplite's senses in battles, that's why they changed it: A compromise between one's history and practical needs.

Btw, imitation is no sin. Why not adopt something that works well? The Hellenes and Kelts were wonderful in that department, as did many culture like the Getai and the many kingdoms of the east. It's the Barbarians that did an arse job of it that's all.

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Btw, imitation is no sin. Why not adopt something that works well? The Hellenes and Kelts were wonderful in that department, as did many culture like the Getai and the many kingdoms of the east. It's the Barbarians that did an arse job of it that's all.

Yes, my Basileius, I didn't mean it that way, I just hate it when someone attributes anything to the Romans that they actually copied Not that jirisys actually did that.

[jirisys]

Yes, my Basileius, I didn't mean it that way, I just hate it when someone attributes anything to the Romans that they actually copied Not that jirisys actually did that.

Everybody knows it was made from another thing, hence the name apulo-Conrinthian

[Fluvius Camillus]

Yes, my Basileius, I didn't mean it that way, I just hate it when someone attributes anything to the Romans that they actually copied Not that jirisys actually did that.

You never realized the fact that without the HELP of the Romani, the Hellenic culture wouldn't have spread so much? The Romani copied the things that helped them, that adaptability made them the new prominent world power. The Romani became a world power, and the lasting presence and long period they ruled cultivated the lands. Hellene and Romani ideas were now spread amongst the complete empire. And all the admiration for Roma also promote the Hellene culture. If the collapsing Hellenic world was divided amongst Celtic tribes, Eastern peoples (Pahlavan's) and Arabians, the culture would also be somewhat absorbed and spread, but to a lesser extent as the Romani did.

Romani and Hellene culture made the Byzantine empire, Constantinople was the most important center for trade, intellectuals and power for a long time. Why not be proud of that?

And even if the Romani have copied more, they copied what was useful, the Greeks copied from Egyptians and Mesopotamians. The collection then formed of Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotamian ideas created a huge resource of useful knowledge. Why should you try to invent something radically different if the current is working perfectly. I didn't see the Greeks looking for an alternative for farming. As Satalexton said earlier:

Btw, imitation is no sin. Why not adopt something that works well?

And about the soap quote, you have to see it in the context, everyone sees that the quote is full of stereotypes, the "olive Greek" is no less a stereotype than the "unwashed barbarian". And you don't have to tell everybody that the Greeks actually don't bathe in oil all day, just as there are very few people in this well learned forum, that need informing about who invented soap.

Anyway, emotions from both sides seem to stack up far too much lately, if my school pressure gets lower, it would be a good idea to take up the gladius and the sarissa again and let off steam, in a new tournament.

But actually we were talking about a helmet.

~Fluvius

[Belisarius II]

I believe that the Apulo-Corinthian helmet relates to a thread I saw a while ago concerning Phrygian helmets.

Both helmets were created for a unique look as well as practical use. Not only did the helmets look good on the wearer, but also acted like any other helmet in protection of the wearer. To the Romans and Greeks, it was a win-win scenario.

Then again, any Mediterranean nation wanted to have the sexiest looking soldiers.

[Ludens]

Btw, imitation is no sin. Why not adopt something that works well? The Hellenes and Kelts were wonderful in that department, as did many culture like the Getai and the many kingdoms of the east.

Absolutely. There is no such things as a pure culture: societies interact and change all the time. Not always for the better, but it ridiculous to reject useful inventions solely because they are foreign.

By the way, the Romans were very good at copying a foreign invention and then adapting it for mass production. They may not have been great inventors, but it was their efficiency that made them an empire.

[jirisys]

Now, mirroring the trolling from the romaioktonoi...

Absolutely. There is no such things as a pure culture: societies interact and change all the time. Not always for the better, but it ridiculous to reject useful inventions solely because they are foreign.

By the way, the Romans were very good at copying a foreign invention and then adapting it for mass production. They may not have been great inventors, but it was their efficiency that made them an empire.

Seconded it! Best Ludens quote ever

Wow, Ludens' quote is almost worthy of romaiophilioi

Yay Ludens! You get a ballon for that

GTHO



~Jirisys (very pissed off, yet, not cursing nor violating any rules)