Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
Again with the universe though. What do the stars and other planets tell us about morality? You would be better off with a microscope than a telescope, and best off with an fMRI. Remember I said it would be based on the natural world (human nature) and not entirely on our opinions and beliefs.

You compare it to electricity, and point out that without us, electrons would still flow. But without us, would it still be wrong to cheat on your wife? There would be no wife and no cheater and no cheating...and no wrong.



Why do you say survival instinct? We have the brain structure required to make moral judgement, that is why we have morality.


VVVVV well said pizza
yes that doesnt change a thing. we the moral judgement brain structure adds morality to what is survival instinct. if we did not have that moral structure we would be like animals in that respect (or atleast our current conception of animals and their possibilities) a baboon has pretty much the same survival instinct as we do, yet a dominant baboon male killing an infant is not doing anything wrong. while if a human would do so, most people would say that he is doing something wrong.

the most basic (often referred to as objective, because they are found in almost if not every culture) moral claims are to be traced back to these instincts. they are not outside us, but they are inherently in us. if morality was something objective, outside us, within the universe (or why not also outside the universe, surely then things would still be moral if the universe would cease to exist) than it would also have to be shared atleast in some respect by other intelligent alien lifeform. not only that, but also to the gods.

and im very much doubting that.