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Thread: Attack on the Moscow metro
There has been a couple of explosions on the Metro in Moscow, killing at least 37 people. The early indications are that these were deliberately triggered explosions, leading to suspicions that it was a terrorist attack.
Metropolitan transport systems are entirely vulnerable to this kind of attack. The terror of travellers caught in such an incident doesn't bear thinking about.
My thoughts go out to the bereaved and the injured. I imagine we'll learn more during the day.
At least 37 people have been killed in two suspected suicide bombings on the Moscow Metro system at the peak of the morning rush hour, officials have said.
The first blast occurred in the central Lubyanka station at 0756 (0356 GMT). Police said the dead included 14 people inside a train and 11 on the platform.
The second explosion came about 40 minutes later at the Park Kultury station, where 12 people were killed.
The first blast occurred in the central Lubyanka station at 0756 (0356 GMT). Police said the dead included 14 people inside a train and 11 on the platform.
The second explosion came about 40 minutes later at the Park Kultury station, where 12 people were killed.
Metropolitan transport systems are entirely vulnerable to this kind of attack. The terror of travellers caught in such an incident doesn't bear thinking about.
My thoughts go out to the bereaved and the injured. I imagine we'll learn more during the day.
Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act? 
Ain't that great, rip dead, speedy recovery for the wounded.
It's very likely, but I feel I must point out the speed with which the media has copypasted Russia's knee-jerk assumption it has to be Chechens. Moscow has an interest in such a claim, after all.
But again, it's got the highest likelihood, I've got to admit.
But again, it's got the highest likelihood, I've got to admit.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
Anybody with an axe to grind against the Russians.Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
E.G.: Chechan separtists, Georgian nationalists, Putinistas seeking an opening to give their strong man more power for the greater good....
Chechan "Black Widow" operations seem most likely given recent threats and past operational history, but.....
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
A people who have been subject to some of the vilest war crimes of the modern age for the last decades, perhaps?Who in the world could possibly be responsible for such a barbaric act?
Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.
Or.... It could be some lunatic fringe of Russians, conspiracy nuts who thinks that such an act is actually a good thing for the russian people, for various reasons... Kinda like a Russian Timothy McVeigh, I guess...
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.
Blame the Caucasian Vendetta(tm!) too . There can't be no moral high ground on the side of a soldier of the vendetta. Different rules. People tend to forget Caucasus is a land of high traditions. High and noble traditions indeed, a bit erh, excacerbated (sp) by an horrid history. They've beeng gifted the sweet tradition of Wahhabism by Saudi Arabia (RIP Caucasian Sufism, that's some hell of a loss). Now they try to gift the exquisite tradition of vendetta to Russia.Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.
Brrrr... it's cold down there.
Are the Caucasus and the Balkans on the same latitude more or less?
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
Are the Caucasus and the Balkans on the same latitude more or less?
Chechnya, Kosovo and Detroit are all on the exact same latitude.Are the Caucasus and the Balkans on the same latitude more or less?
Could we be on to something here...?
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
A people who have been subject to some of the vilest war crimes of the modern age for the last decades, perhaps?
Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.
The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost. This is just heinous Muslim terrorism with no realistic political or strategic goals other than to inflict death and misery on as many innocents as possible.A people who have been subject to some of the vilest war crimes of the modern age for the last decades, perhaps?
Russia doesn't get the moral high ground because of this. This crime is nothing compared to the Russian crimes.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.
If it is so obvious why don' t you explain them?The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost. This is just heinous Muslim terrorism with no realistic political or strategic goals other than to inflict death and misery on as many innocents as possible.
Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost. This is just heinous Muslim terrorism with no realistic political or strategic goals other than to inflict death and misery on as many innocents as possible.
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah:
Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?
Yeah freedom fighters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG1aZSckpiwFreedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.
Really?The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.
Better tell the Russians, so they can put an end to the abuse, punishment and terrorism they perform down there.
Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.
Fire with fire?
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.
I didn't know you Americans were that fond of russian propaganda, you learn something new every day.The Second Chechen War is over by every measure, and the Chechens lost.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.
And that, I'm very sorry for all the russians who lost their life or family members in these acts of terrorism.Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.
You can't blame all Russians for what their government does in Chechnya, neither can you blame all Muslims for what their terrorist does in Moscow.
Terrorists aren't even elected usually. (No, that's a government consisting of some people who are/were terrorists, PJ and Frag)
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Really?
Better tell the Russians, so they can put an end to the abuse, punishment and terrorism they perform down there.
There is no doubt that the war got ugly on both sides, but the war is over. Russia has pulled out the vast majority of its troops. The counter-insurgency operation ended last April and negotiations commenced. Zakayev, the Chechen separatist leader, declared an end to the conflict last August. Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people. Only a tiny group of fringe fanatics remain in the Northern Caucauses. The world has moved on. If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought, and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia. Really?
Better tell the Russians, so they can put an end to the abuse, punishment and terrorism they perform down there.
Originally Posted by Megas:
Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?
The French Resistance did not target civilians. Further, the French had a realistic expectation of victory as the war continued on in other theatres after the fall of France. In contrast, the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.Freedom fighters, I say. Just like the French resistance after the Nazis overran their country in WW2, right?
Originally Posted by Husar:
Terrorists aren't even elected usually. (No, that's a government consisting of some people who are/were terrorists, PJ and Frag)
Did I say anything?Terrorists aren't even elected usually. (No, that's a government consisting of some people who are/were terrorists, PJ and Frag)
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people.
Are you serious? Do you only know who are Kadyrov and his clique? Do you remember the circumstances of his "election" and have you heard of the level of corruption in Chechnya?Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought
Vendetta needs no viable strategic justifications, and ten years is still a short delay for the achievement of vengeance.If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia
I'm definitely sorry to agree. But things are much more complex that you seem to believe.and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia
Originally Posted by Fragony:
Did I say anything?
Obviously not because I struck you down like an elephant that steps on a flower before you even got a chance to say anything, hah! Did I say anything?
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.
That's why there terrorists.....Yeah, but killing innocents isn't really the answer. Kill Putin, Medvedev or some general who was in charge, don't kill people going to work to provide for their families. There is no excuse or moral high ground for the terrorists.
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people.
AhahahahahahahahahahahaRussia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Ahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hore Tore, I understand that since one can't cry everytime the statement deserved a good laugh, but erh, could you be more specific in your reactions?Ahahahahahahahahahahaha
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
There is no doubt that the war got ugly on both sides, but the war is over. Russia has pulled out the vast majority of its troops. The counter-insurgency operation ended last April and negotiations commenced. Zakayev, the Chechen separatist leader, declared an end to the conflict last August. Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people. Only a tiny group of fringe fanatics remain in the Northern Caucauses. The world has moved on. If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought, and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia.
...the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.
There is no doubt that the war got ugly on both sides, but the war is over. Russia has pulled out the vast majority of its troops. The counter-insurgency operation ended last April and negotiations commenced. Zakayev, the Chechen separatist leader, declared an end to the conflict last August. Russia is spending billions to rebuild Grozny and the rest of the region. Reputable Chechen leaders are working within the Russian government to promote the interests of the Chechen people. Only a tiny group of fringe fanatics remain in the Northern Caucauses. The world has moved on. If these Muslim women wanted to die for Chechen independence, they had 10 years to do so. At this point, they have no viable strategic justifications for the carnage they have wrought, and their supporters and enablers deserve nothing less than the kind of justice that can only be found in Russia.
...the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.
To borrow from Tristuskhan's sig: "Les Cons ça ose tout, c'est même à ça qu'on les reconnait"
RIP to the innocent that were killed.
Originally Posted by PenzerJaegar:
They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.
In short - you are advocating to Nuke the Middle East?They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.
Originally Posted by Beskar:
In short - you are advocating to Nuke the Middle East?
In short - you are advocating to Nuke the Middle East?
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger:
In contrast, the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.
I believe he was talking specifically about the type that strap explosive devices to their bodies and set themselves off in the most crowded area they can reach. Or you believe that entire Middle East is populated by fanatical Muslims?In contrast, the war in Chechnya is over, with even the Chechen's de Gaulle, Zakayev, declaring as much. These people are not freedom fighters, they are not even true Chechens. They are the same fanatical Muslim types that hit NYC, London, Madrid, Bali and Beslan and that will refuse to accept reality until they are exterminated.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
I believe he was talking specifically about the type that strap explosive devices to their bodies and set themselves off in the most crowded area they can reach. Or you believe that entire Middle East is populated by fanatical Muslims?
Nope, but many people who advocating nuking the Middle East do. Plenty of them around to ask.I believe he was talking specifically about the type that strap explosive devices to their bodies and set themselves off in the most crowded area they can reach. Or you believe that entire Middle East is populated by fanatical Muslims?
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