How to win as Oda?

[gollum]

Version 1.12 (original STW with 1.12 patch without MI) is different in many respects to STW warldord/MI (that are the same) DEB8. In there ashigaru in huge take 2 turns to build, infrastructure takes twice as long and costs twice as much to build and Naginata have their original cool skin and not the yari sam immitation one. Also battle stats are different (better in terms of balance imo - but the stats in warldord/mi can be modded), battlefield ninja, kensai and naginata cav do not appear as do not the drill dojo and the battlefield ninja dojo. Also emmissaries cannot bribe and there aren't any faction reappearances and historical campaigns - only the sengoku campaign.

[ReluctantSamurai]

So I have had no such problem to date. Sometimes the AI will attack through the valley with some units, but usually NOT cavalry!!

A lot depends on who initiates the attack. If it is Imagawa, then his forces start in the valley and Takeda's begin on his left flank which puts them in a position to try to turn your right flank, which I've found the AI tries to do.

If Takeda initiates the attack, then he's the one in the valley with Imagawa on his left. That has it's problems, too, because those BFN have a heyday in those two patches of forest on your right flank.

I use muskets, not arquebus, so they still fire in the rain....just not as effectively. But the morale impact is the biggest factor in using guns (although they can rack up the kills) and this is unaffected by rain. Guns can do well even in hilly provinces. Give me a couple of honor 5 teppo just below the crest of that monster hill in Shinano and I will lay you out a carpet of samurai bodies to walk down the hill upon

[DEB8]

A lot depends on who initiates the attack. If it is Imagawa, then his forces start in the valley and Takeda's begin on his left flank which puts them in a position to try to turn your right flank, which I've found the AI tries to do. If Takeda initiates the attack, then he's the one in the valley with Imagawa on his left. That has it's problems, too, because those BFN have a heyday in those two patches of forest on your right flank.

You appear to be referring to a joint attack by Imagawa & Takeda. To date I have only had to deal with single clan attacks ( thank God ). I'll bear it in mind though for the future.

I use muskets, not arquebus, so they still fire in the rain....just not as effectively.

Ah, I had forgotten that muskets are better in MTW/WE 1.02 ( when compared to MTW 1.12 ) re rain. Perhaps I'll get some in due course.

A Question:

So far in my game, the Dutch have not arrived. It is rather unusual considering the late date. I note also that neither my clan or the last remaining AI clan ( Takeda ) have built any ( traced ) Portuguese Trading Posts. Is it possible the Dutch only "arrive" after a Portuguese Trading Post has been built by someone?

[ReluctantSamurai]

I can't recall any recent Oda 1580 campaign that I've played where they weren't allied. I've always had to face them both in Mino within the first year.......and every year thereafter until I kill one of them off

AFAIK, the appearance of the Dutch has no relationship to the Portuguese showing up. I could be wrong, tho'.....

I never wait for the Dutch anyways. I take the first Portuguese offer and run with it until I have a gun factory and muskets.

[Togakure]

IIRC, the Dutch appear like clockwork in 1561 in the SJ campaign, somewhere on the map in the west. Not sure about the added campaigns in WE. if you're playing an Eastern faction however, you won't likely see them until much later.

I did a quick search to see if anyone else noted the date the Dutch arrive and found these:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/451526-sh...ion/faqs/21099

Search on 1561 within the document to find the statement.

This, I noted, is hosted on the Mizu server somewhere:

http://files.mizus.com/files/STW_WE/.../Preview2.html

So I think it's a safe bet to assume that the Dutch arrive in the game somewhere in 1561, though you might not see them until later depending on what clan you are playing and where your empire is on the map.

[DEB8]

IIRC, the Dutch appear like clockwork in 1561 in the SJ campaign, somewhere on the map in the west. Not sure about the added campaigns in WE. if you're playing an Eastern faction however, you won't likely see them until much later.

Currently playing ODA in the standard campaign. The year is now two or three years past 1574.

[DEB8]

I can't recall any recent Oda 1580 campaign that I've played where they weren't allied. I've always had to face them both in Mino within the first year.......and every year thereafter until I kill one of them off

Ah, I see the misunderstanding. I am not playing the Oda 1580 campaign. Just a standard campaign.

[DEB8]

AFAIK, the appearance of the Dutch has no relationship to the Portuguese showing up. I could be wrong, tho'.....

To clarify my question, as it may have been misunderstood :-

The Portuguese turned up a long long time ago in my current game and I accepted an offer to trade with them. However, I have not built a Trading post until recently ( approx. 1575 ). It is now ( approx.) 1577. Up to the date I built the Portuguese Trading post, the Dutch have never visted me ( or if the lack of messages is to be believed ), anyone else. Indeed, although I have captured or viewed ALL of the ports around the whole of Japan, I have not seen any Trading posts of any kind ( Portuguese or Dutch ). Also I have not witnessed any "teppo" units of any kind.

Therefore, it "appears" the Dutch will not arrive until :-

a) the Portuguese have arrived
b) only after a Portuguese Trading Post has been built.

Does anyone agree or disagree with my surmise? Historically, it seems
( to me ), to be correct.

N.B. If a Portuguese Trading post is built by someone before 1561 ( this is normally to be expected ), then the Dutch may well arrive at that date. In my game however, that was not the case.

[Togakure]

I disagree with your surmise. In a Sengoku Jidai campaign, I believe the Dutch arrive somewhere on the map in 1561, as I stated previously. You may not see them--ever--but that's when they arrive.

In your game I would guess it to be a fluke; you just never saw them. I've seen the Dutch arrive in 1561 exactly, again and again and again when playing Shimazu, Mori, Takeda, Imagawa, etc.. That, combined with documented observations of others on the 'net, convinces me beyond reasonable doubt.

But it doesn't matter ;). Enjoy the game.

[caravel]

The Dutch/Potuguese arrivals are indeed independent, hardcoded events. There is no relation between the two. They arrive at their fixed hardcoded dates and then start to travel the map dropping in at ports en route. This is why you will first meet their emissaries at different dates depending on which faction you are playing.

[DEB8]

Version 1.12 (original STW with 1.12 patch without MI) is different in many respects to STW warlord/MI (that are the same) DEB8.

As previously stated, I have both - so I am aware of that...

In there ashigaru in huge take 2 turns to build, infrastructure takes twice as long and costs twice as much to build

As previously stated; I asked the question as I have not yet played with any unit size ( on either game ) at other than 60. Another poster appears to say Ashi's take 1 turn on hugh and Sami's 2 turns. So one of you would appear to be incorrect...

I have had a look at my MTW 1.12 at each of the various unit sizes :-

60 & 80 man units take 1 turn to build. 100 & 120 man units take 2 turns to build ( with Shinobi's, Ninja's & Emissaries taking 1 turn ).
Ashigaru's take the same time to build as Samurai etc. at each level of unit size. I took your comment as : Ashigaru's take two turns to build ( and the others take 1 turn ). Perhaps I was wrong.

TWD : Having reread your reply to Masamune's "misunderstanding" re the production of Ashigaru's, I now understand your comments. I presumed the same as Masamune in my comments above and in earlier posts. Apologies.

...battlefield ninja, kensai and naginata cav do not appear as do not the drill dojo and the battlefield ninja dojo. Also emmissaries cannot bribe and there aren't any faction reappearances and historical campaigns - only the sengoku campaign.

Again, I am aware of these things...