Dutch Marines Shove Wooden Shoe up Pirate posterior: Give Finger to EU

[Vladimir]

Go dutchies!

I'm really tempted to post this without commentary. As most of you may assume, I'd prefer to solve the Somali pirate crisis by taking out a town or two. Until then, we'll have to rely on the Dutch.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...4-H2wD9ETSR1O2

I like this one:

"The pirates surrendered the moment they saw the marines,"

Is there any doubt that a decent show of force would deter further attacks?

[Strike For The South]

Hans Lodder would make a good villian in DIE HARD

[Banquo's Ghost]

I tend to agree that acts of piracy should be met with appropriate force such as this. However:

Lodder first ascertained that the freighter's crew had locked themselves in a bulletproof room.

I'm not entirely sure how he guaranteed this, but such a situation helped his attempt. Further aggressive attacks will simply mean that the hostages are kept in areas of the ship where they can be threatened or used as human shields. Even the Dutch are unlikely to go Rambo when innocents are going to die en masse. (And for the record, the French Navy has been shooting up the Somalis for some time).

[Furunculus]

awesome story cheers.

[al Roumi]

As most of you may assume, I'd prefer to solve the Somali pirate crisis by taking out a town or two.

Is there any doubt that a decent show of force would deter further attacks?

yeah, charging in like that would be good.



Until there is an legitimate and acceptable (to Somali's, or whoever) legal punishment for piracy (i.e. not death at the hands of a foreign Government), there won't be a truly positive change. Unfortunately, that might require some sort of Somali state... oh dear.

Edit: My apologies for the pic but...

[Vladimir]

This is more appropriate:



And one for you as well.

There is a tried and true way to stop pirates; and the legal system isn't it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

There is a tried and true way to stop pirates; and the legal system isn't it.

Yes, it is - and has been for a couple of centuries. Barbarism merely creates more barbarism.

[Vladimir]

Yes, it is - and has been for a couple of centuries. Barbarism merely creates more barbarism.

You know better.

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Barbary_War

[Banquo's Ghost]

You know better.

You might do well to actually read what you linked, because it really doesn't support your view on ignoring legal process. Also, having an actual state leader to work with helps enormously, not to mention relying on the protection of the British.

[al Roumi]

And one for you as well.

There is a tried and true way to stop pirates; and the legal system isn't it.

LOL what are you going to do? Make them walk the plank?

Shiver me timbers that'l sort the lilly-livered lot out won't it, Bosun.

Make it legal, then you can go send your pimpslapping forces in.

[Fragony]

Make it legal, then you can go send your pimpslapping forces in.

We prefer 'practising flat hand theorists'

[Vladimir]

Make it legal, then you can go send your pimpslapping forces in.

[sith]I will make it legal.[/sith]

[Fragony]

Glad nobody got hurt that's all.

Even the Dutch are unlikely to go Rambo

Very unlikely

[Louis VI the Fat]

Go Dutchies!

I'm really tempted to post this without commentary. As most of you may assume, I'd prefer to solve the Somali pirate crisis by taking out a town or two. Until then, we'll have to rely on the Dutch.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...4-H2wD9ETSR1O2

I like this one:

"The pirates surrendered the moment they saw the marines,"

Is there any doubt that a decent show of force would deter further attacks?

Excellent, and good show.



The somewhat suggestive tone in the article about 'EU red tape that was by-passed, or else none of this action would've been possible', seems a bit overdone. The navies function mostly as national navies, their effectiveness greatly enhanced by the international cooperation that's orchestrated by the EU, all under the leadership of the Brits, under the assumption that the rosbifs know a thing or two about running a navy.
Not to mention, it is the EU that enables a coordination between military and non-military efforts to curb piracy, such as a simultaneous effort to police illegal fishing in the Somali waters. The EU coordinates, finances and facilitates the European effort, with the several navies involved assigned well-coordinated roles, with a clear chain of command.

What the EU ought to do, is to go on strike for a month or two, then let's see what happens as the different navies only get in each other's way, or each nation only takes care of its own ships, and what little cooperation there would be left is get lost in endless red tape because there is no single chain of command.

~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~

The NAVFOR website has a slightly different account of events. There had been an attempt at negotiations first, then a rescue opration. Somewhat less Die Hard / Rambo XXIV.

MV Taipan, a German flagged and owned container ship of deadweight of 12612 tonnes, was on route to Mombasa from Djibouti when pirates attacked and took control of the ship.
On the morning of the 5 April, 500 nautical miles east off the Somali coast, a Pirate Attack Group (PAG) attacked and got onboard the MV Taipan. As the pirates boarded the ship the MV Taipan crew followed EU NAVFOR Best Management Practice, retreated to a secure strong room and locked themselves in; they were able to stop all engines and thereby disable the ship, before alerting EU NAVFOR that the ship had been taken. HNLMS Tromp was sent immediately to the scene and located the pirated ship.

Initially HNMLS Tromp attempted to negotiate with the pirates to avoid casualties but when it became clear that the pirates intended resisting, HNMLS Tromp launched a highly professional operation to recapture the ship. Marines from the TROMP have now boarded and retaken control of the ship from the pirates. The crew of 13 (2 German, 3 Russian and 8 Sri Lankan nationals) have been released unharmed. 10 pirates have been taken into custody.


http://www.eunavfor.eu/2010/04/pirat...ted-mv-taipan/

Pirates are caught or repelled on a daily basis by the EU mission. Little red tape there.

[Husar]

Not only what Louis just said but also this quote from the link in the OP...

A spokesman for the EU mission acknowledged the Dutch action avoided a delay and was legitimate.

Don't really see the problem, and as Banquo said, they made sure the crew was safe and not taken hostage.
Of course had it been a rescue attempt by the US I'm sure they'd have carpet bombed the whole ship to make sure none of the bastards got away and then sent a gunship to obliterate the fishermen trying to pick up the dead bodies.
Oh look, I can make things up about other countries as well.

Seriously, Europe and the US have completely different views on how to handle such things and on who actually has a right to life and a fair trial, it#s somewhat pointless to debate this over and over again. I'm pretty happy with the way we do things here overall, you Americans can be happy with the way you do your gang wars, war on drugs, war on immigrants, war on your front lawn and whatever over there...

[Centurion1]

Don't really see the problem, and as Banquo said, they made sure the crew was safe and not taken hostage.
Of course had it been a rescue attempt by the US I'm sure they'd have carpet bombed the whole ship to make sure none of the bastards got away and then sent a gunship to obliterate the fishermen trying to pick up the dead bodies.
Oh look, I can make things up about other countries as well.

Seriously, Europe and the US have completely different views on how to handle such things and on who actually has a right to life and a fair trial, it#s somewhat pointless to debate this over and over again. I'm pretty happy with the way we do things here overall, you Americans can be happy with the way you do your gang wars, war on drugs, war on immigrants, war on your front lawn and whatever over there...

Actually we send in the navy seals they snipe them down in the dead of night on a rocking ship and then capture one and all the prisoners are kept intact.

We have a far worse gang probably that germany by the way. and not only because of the way we conduct our programs. as well i am not taking advice from a German on how to win a war.

death penalty is a legal solution to the problem. what you are arguing those against it is if it is ethical or not. if it works its fine by me. they should arm ships so that three pirates wielding rusty ak-47's from the bazaar at home cant capture an oil tanker.

and seriously they talk about ships like disappearing and being sold in illegal markets, in our world of satellites how the hell do you lose a ship.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Without rules of engagement, without democratic control, complete rule of the jungle will apply in the Somali waters.


Armed ships will mean even more Western/Asian thugs will deplete these waters from fishing stocks and use it to dump waste*. I don't want them armed, filled with mercenaries. We are not supposed to be the pirates here.


*Good business, BTW, it's expensive to dispose of waste in the West, especially toxic waste. Companies specialise in buying waste, then dumping it at great hazard to local populations wherever the rule of law has collapsed.

[Centurion1]

make sailors learn firearms. and then have them locked up until they are needed. solutuion there.

[rory_20_uk]

Without rules of engagement, without democratic control, complete rule of the jungle will apply in the Somali waters.


Armed ships will mean even more Western/Asian thugs will deplete these waters from fishing stocks and use it to dump waste*. I don't want them armed, filled with mercenaries. We are not supposed to be the pirates here.


*Good business, BTW, it's expensive to dispose of waste in the West, especially toxic waste. Companies specialise in buying waste, then dumping it at great hazard to local populations wherever the rule of law has collapsed.

If you want to dump waste illegally, why do it close to pirates when there are vast areas of the globe that are neither patrolled by warships or pirates? Use GPS, go out to a Pacific trench and drop it there. Why risk men with AKs and RPGs?

[Husar]

Actually we send in the navy seals they snipe them down in the dead of night on a rocking ship and then capture one and all the prisoners are kept intact.

That was after the prisoners jumped into the water and the pirates did not shoot them, thus giving the snipers a free line of fire.

We have a far worse gang probably that germany by the way.

Far worse indeed, and gangs aren't cool.

and not only because of the way we conduct our programs. as well i am not taking advice from a German on how to win a war.

First off, it's Germans teaching Americans on counter-terrorism tactics but going by the amount of cooperation going on between most western countries it should be fair to say they all have a very high standard and are mostly willing to share it.

death penalty is a legal solution to the problem. what you are arguing those against it is if it is ethical or not. if it works its fine by me.

So if the IRS tortured you to get their taxes that would be fine by me, who cares about ethics if it works, eh?

they should arm ships so that three pirates wielding rusty ak-47's from the bazaar at home cant capture an oil tanker.

Yes, exactly, turn every freighter into a moving fortress, fill the cargo bays with ammo, who needs all that oil anyway? Oh and who cares if some countries won't let them into port anymore? Like i said, who needs that oil anyway? Or just conquer those countries, right? Piece of cake as could be seen in Iraq.

and seriously they talk about ships like disappearing and being sold in illegal markets, in our world of satellites how the hell do you lose a ship.

Because you're probably overestimating our "world of satellites", don't worry, I thought that, too, then thought a bit more about it.