Dutch Marines Shove Wooden Shoe up Pirate posterior: Give Finger to EU

[Vladimir]

Moar pirate related fun http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe2_1269809181

Well would you

Meet Sexy Women in your Area!

All I got out of that article is something about meeting sexy Dutch women.

Hat tip to Banquo and Mr. P.

[Tellos Athenaios]

And that Pirates will even attempt a raid on a Naval frigate to meet them, if only accidentally.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Bah. All this talk of escalating violence ignores the fact that pirates are looking for easy targets, not shootouts.

I remember when the Maersk Alabama was hijacked and the captain captured, and how so many people said it'd be terrible for crews to resist with gunfire. How it would lead to more violence from the pirates and dead crew.

But then pirates again attacked the Alabama and the crew (including private security forces) responded with gunfire and repelled the pirates. The crew members came out ahead, as none of them were kidnapped.

Even in that article some pansy foreign type moans about how the shipping community is 'solidly against' something proven to work, because of the 'idea' that states are supposed to provide security, and, I suppose, if they aren't doing that well enough you're just supposed to suffer and not try to protect yourself.

And yes, we should go to the pirate enclaves and sink a bunch of ships. Barbarism leads to more barbarism? BAH! These pirates are practically granted sanctuary. If they found repercussions extending beyond the immediate time of the attack, they'd go into something less dangerous. It's a simple balance of incentives.

CR

[Banquo's Ghost]

Of course. Because running around the world murdering random people with no due process and deeming them guilty by association/intention/existence just because you can, and need fear no reprisals, is the mark of a civilised nation. How silly of me to have thought otherwise.

[rory_20_uk]

There is no definition of civilised nation. Some uncivilised ones are very soft, some civilised ones are brutal.

A modern civillised nation gets its knickers in a twist worrying about the perceived rights of everybody except those living within its borders, who are to be viewed as criminals in the making and are to be spied on constantly.

We get to the point where UK citizens are shot by mistake whilst running for a train, and pirates are unstoppable.

Employ competent captains (surely commanding a warship and attendant sailors they have to be?) with the ability for autonomous action.

When training a dog you utilise punishments that are understood, which are different to those employed with children. Since citations aren't going to work, 9mm cannon will be required.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What good would hammering a pirate village do? Short of extermination, you'd only be (at best) smashing one set of pests. The problem would recur and deterrence would be minimal. The basic metric is: a) live in squalor in a failed state with poor resources, or b) kip over on a boat and take that big freighter out there, netting much money from the company who'd rather pay you than keep an expensive ship idling. Smashing the odd pirate nest does not address this.

With the Barbary pirates, there were locals to be suborned, specific acknowledged political leaders involved, a power structure to be influenced....the modern version is more akin to Malaccan corsairs -- no infrastructure of importance to hit.

By all means, hang any caught in the act; defend ships rather than play the extortion game; sink, take or burn any that can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt to be pirating or aiding and abetting same.

Punitive for the sake of punitive is likely to backfire and, as Banquo rightly notes, is morally unjustifiable.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Of course. Because running around the world murdering random people with no due process and deeming them guilty by association/intention/existence just because you can, and need fear no reprisals, is the mark of a civilised nation. How silly of me to have thought otherwise.

I talk about sinking ships - putting holes in inanimate objects - and you liken that to running around the world randomly murdering people? That's one of the most imrpessive strawmen I've ever seen.

Obviously you'd want to sink the pirate ships.

CR

[rory_20_uk]

As you rightly point out the current options are squalor or pop on a boat and grab some hard currency. Worst case you get to visit another country for a bit.

If a significant percentage of pirates did not return home the perceptions would change about the risk:benefit.

Hammering villages only indicates that there is almost equal risk on going to sea as staying on land and is counter productive.

[Pannonian]

As you rightly point out the current options are squalor or pop on a boat and grab some hard currency. Worst case you get to visit another country for a bit.

If a significant percentage of pirates did not return home the perceptions would change about the risk:benefit.

Hammering villages only indicates that there is almost equal risk on going to sea as staying on land and is counter productive.

Pompey's solution was to resettle them in inland areas elsewhere where there were other ways to make a livelihood.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I talk about sinking ships - putting holes in inanimate objects - and you liken that to running around the world randomly murdering people? That's one of the most imrpessive strawmen I've ever seen.

Obviously you'd want to sink the pirate ships.

CR

If I misinterpreted your recommendations, then I apologise. I'm not entirely sure how you'd sink their fishing boats in harbour without also hitting civilians or fishermen (if that is in fact, what you're recommending) but it's a plan, I suppose.

I thought my original post made it clear that I would support actions such as that of the Dutch marines, where appropriate. I would also support arming vessels as you suggested, but I also suspect most American and Europeans would have a hard time accepting tankers delivering their oil into home ports crewed by assorted unvetted chaps from the Middle East armed to the teeth.

[Furunculus]

Of course. Because running around the world murdering random people with no due process and deeming them guilty by association/intention/existence just because you can, and need fear no reprisals, is the mark of a civilised nation. How silly of me to have thought otherwise.

i like the new edgier BG. *claps*

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the point about giving naval captains leeway is worth mentioning, the invention of the radio destroyed the ability for independant action from hitherto sovereign decision makers, maybe we should give them back their ability to deal with piracy withou recourse to the downing st hotline.

sink pirate ships, and international shipping will soon see the benefits.