Dutch Marines Shove Wooden Shoe up Pirate posterior: Give Finger to EU

[Louis VI the Fat]

Without rules of engagement, without democratic control, complete rule of the jungle will apply in the Somali waters.


Armed ships will mean even more Western/Asian thugs will deplete these waters from fishing stocks and use it to dump waste*. I don't want them armed, filled with mercenaries. We are not supposed to be the pirates here.


*Good business, BTW, it's expensive to dispose of waste in the West, especially toxic waste. Companies specialise in buying waste, then dumping it at great hazard to local populations wherever the rule of law has collapsed.

[Centurion1]

make sailors learn firearms. and then have them locked up until they are needed. solutuion there.

[Fragony]

make sailors learn firearms. and then have them locked up until they are needed. solutuion there.

These pirates are heavily armed, crew don't stand a chance.

[Subotan]

Piracy is only going to come when both a solid state is established in Somalia (That isn't likely to happen any time soon) and economic development comes. Otherwise, no matter how many times you swat them away, the chance to earn a cool million dollars in a place like Somalia will prove too hard to resist.

[rory_20_uk]

Without rules of engagement, without democratic control, complete rule of the jungle will apply in the Somali waters.


Armed ships will mean even more Western/Asian thugs will deplete these waters from fishing stocks and use it to dump waste*. I don't want them armed, filled with mercenaries. We are not supposed to be the pirates here.


*Good business, BTW, it's expensive to dispose of waste in the West, especially toxic waste. Companies specialise in buying waste, then dumping it at great hazard to local populations wherever the rule of law has collapsed.

If you want to dump waste illegally, why do it close to pirates when there are vast areas of the globe that are neither patrolled by warships or pirates? Use GPS, go out to a Pacific trench and drop it there. Why risk men with AKs and RPGs?

[Louis VI the Fat]

If you want to dump waste illegally, why do it close to pirates when there are vast areas of the globe that are neither patrolled by warships or pirates? Use GPS, go out to a Pacific trench and drop it there. Why risk men with AKs and RPGs?

THE huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami in December are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste illegally dumped in the war-racked country during the early 1990s. Apart from killing about 300 people and destroying thousands of homes, the waves broke up rusting barrels and other containers and hazardous waste dumped along the long, remote shoreline, a spokesman for the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep) said.
“Initial reports indicate that the tsunami waves broke open containers full of toxic waste and scattered the contents. We are talking about everything from medical waste to chemical waste products,” Nick Nuttal, the Unep spokesman, told The Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle418665.ece

Somali pirates have accused European firms of dumping toxic waste off the Somali coast and are demanding an $8m ransom for the return of a Ukranian ship they captured, saying the money will go towards cleaning up the waste. The ransom demand is a means of "reacting to the toxic waste that has been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly 20 years", Januna Ali Jama, a spokesman for the pirates, based in the semi-autonomous region of Puntland, said.

"The Somali coastline has been destroyed, and we believe this money is nothing compared to the devastation that we have seen on the seas."
The pirates are holding the MV Faina, a Ukrainian ship carrying tanks and military hardware, off Somalia's northern coast.

Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy for Somalia confirmed to Al Jazeera the world body has "reliable information" that European and Asian companies are dumping toxic waste, including nuclear waste, off the Somali coastline. "I must stress however, that no government has endorsed this act, and that private companies and individuals acting alone are responsible," he said



Allegations of the dumping of toxic waste, as well as illegal fishing, have circulated since the early 1990s.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...223218644.html

I don't want these international thugs sailing around on armed semi-warships. The last thing we need is even more floating fortresses and mercenaries abusing the failed states of the world. The world needs to be made safe for democracy, not democracy turned into the accomplice of crooks. Gung-ho populism and mistrust of the state in the democracies would abandon governmental oversight, and swap the rule of law for an entire world turned into a Somalia, where armed gangs of thugs, or their more organised variant, large corporations, plunder us all into destitution.

[rory_20_uk]

Sorry ot break it to you, but that's pretty much the case. The Western Thugs merely wear suits and have PR departments. Although some are defined as being connected to states and some are multinational, both act in a very similar way.

I did not mean to imply I was questioning that illegal dumping had taken place in the past. It has always struck me as a rather odd place to do it so close to the coast.

[al Roumi]

Sorry ot break it to you, but that's pretty much the case. The Western Thugs merely wear suits and have PR departments. Although some are defined as being connected to states and some are multinational, both act in a very similar way.

I did not mean to imply I was questioning that illegal dumping had taken place in the past. It has always struck me as a rather odd place to do it so close to the coast.

There are probably more loop-holes or gaps in the law and its enforcement to exploit in a failed-state's waters than at open sea, where international laws are enforced. Less chance of anyone stopping you or investigating afterwards.

One of the justifications the Pirates have provided for their actions is that they are defending their coastline against dumping and fishing... as well as making a damn good living, of course.

[Boohugh]

Just an observation from reading over this thread, many of you are debating the morality of having armed ships and whether it would be abused by gangs or effective against the pirates but you completely ignore the legal aspects. By arming a ship with the intent of defending itself against aggression, you significantly change how it is viewed under international law, which could then cause a multitude of problems regarding where it would be allowed to make port, how it is insured, etc. Arming all civilian vessels just isn't a practical solution and, if anything, would escalate the situation.

There was also a link earlier regarding a ship that had private security guys on board and fought off some pirates, the key point being they had to be fought off, the pirates weren't deterred straight away. Here is another case where there were private security contractors who managed to repel the first wave of an attack but didn't deter the pirates trying again, eventually leading to one of the pirates dying. The pirates only seem to surrender when faced with overwhelming force (i.e. a warship), otherwise they just retreat if they can't capture the ship.

Someone also mentioned we should just sink the pirate ships - well that is exactly what we do, if there is evidence they are pirates. As that evidence is generally a supply of weapons, allowing every ships' crew to run around armed just makes identifying the pirates even more difficult, as the pirates would just start claiming they were fishing vessels defending themselves against pirates! Just take a look at the link Louis provided earlier to see much of the good work done by the EU task force.

[Vladimir]

Yep, the legal aspects are the problem, not the solution. It's sad that a ship carrying millions of dollars of cargo is penalized for carrying a security element. I am confused: Are you saying that it's a bad thing one of the pirates died? From your post it seems like international law is the problem and armed resistance is the answer. It's also easy to identify the pirates if they're shooting at you.