Dutch Marines Shove Wooden Shoe up Pirate posterior: Give Finger to EU

[Boohugh]

Yep, the legal aspects are the problem, not the solution. It's sad that a ship carrying millions of dollars of cargo is penalized for carrying a security element. I am confused: Are you saying that it's a bad thing one of the pirates died? From your post it seems like international law is the problem and armed resistance is the answer. It's also easy to identify the pirates if they're shooting at you.

There are 3 basic questions I can gather from your post:

1) Is it bad a pirate died? No. My point was that despite a pirate dying, it hasn't deterred further attacks, both against that same ship (in the case I linked the pirates attacked again) and in general as there are still plenty of pirates out there. Arming civilian ships therefore doesn't seem to act as a deterrent against attack.

2) Is armed resistance the answer and international law the problem? No. In this instance, the ship was able to eventually repel the pirates, however that wouldn't necessarily be the case every time and more armed ships would likely encourage the pirates to employ heavier weaponry, increasing the likelyhood of deaths on both sides. If the pirates did succeed in taking a ship, they'd be more likely to kill hostages in anger/revenge and could still ransom the ship (which, as you pointed out, has the valuable cargo on board). For this reason I wouldn't argue that armed resistance is the answer and is only likely to escalate the situation rather than diffuse it. I see nothing wrong with international law (piracy is illegal under international law afterall), but it could certainly be implemented more robustly, i.e. more military vessels to patrol the area whilst a diplomatic effort is reached (which means building a Somali state).

3) Will pirates always be shooting at you? No. The pirates currently try to dump their weapons overboard if they are about to be caught by a military vessel, they don't shoot at them. If possession of weapons by all vessels is fine, then the only way to identify pirates is by catching them in the act, which is far more difficult to achieve than to catch them with weapons.

From my perspective, I don't see the logic in arming all civilian vessels. It may prevent some hijackings, but it could cause many more deaths and escalate the whole situation which just stores up longer term problems. The only real legal problem is the lack of a suitable place to prosecute the pirates once they have been caught.

[rory_20_uk]

I think one can tell the difference between an oil tanker and crew with guns and a fishing boat with AK-47s 300 miles off the Somalian coast. If not, arrest and seek ID from their bosses.

[gaelic cowboy]

Arming tankers and cargo ships sounds cool but in practice it will fail there is no shortage of weapons in somalia an all it takes is one group of lads to threaten to fire some anti armour rocket at the ship and everyone on board would have to surrender.

[Centurion1]

these pirates are not good fighters. neither do they have excellent weaponry. rpg's and ak-47's are popular because they are cheap and reliable not because they are the best weaponry.

you issue lisences to carry arms in international waters.

and one anti tank round is not going to blow an oil tanker sky high.

as well the pirates are **** can fighters. They have no training or discipline, just because you grow up in a war torn weaponry and have access to second rate weaponry does not make you a soldier.

i recently read a military theory article that said the afghan security forces are suffering because as it is such a strong tenet of the faith to not shoot fellow muslims they often partake of the spray and pray method even after training. as a result even when fighting non-muslims they are so inured to this type of fighting that it persists. Ironically Al Qaeda does not because they know to fight compared to say afghan security or taliban militias.

[gaelic cowboy]

one anti tank round is not going to blow an oil tanker sky high.

Not every boat is a heavily constructed tanker remember the kidnapped old couple on a boat supposedly in safe water. Also if you had enough RPG's you could hardly miss a Tanker and if it was one of the early single hull types it could be in danger. But the reall worry would be a speed boat loaded with explosives that would sink it and fast

i recently read a military theory article that said the afghan security forces are suffering because as it is such a strong tenet of the faith to not shoot fellow muslims they often partake of the spray and pray method even after training. as a result even when fighting non-muslims they are so inured to this type of fighting that it persists. Ironically Al Qaeda does not because they know to fight compared to say afghan security or taliban militias.

Thats actually not unusual most soldiers actually missed on purpose in WW1 and it has been a problem ever since and was probably one before that too. Hence today we have a greater emphasis on indoctrination of soldiers nowadays into reacting to set conditions in certain ways to increase the chance they will shoot to kill.