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  1. #1
    Satalextos Basileus Seron Member satalexton's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Και η ελληνική πρέπει να είναι κοινή μας γλώσσα...




    "ΜΗΔΕΝ ΕΩΡΑΚΕΝΑΙ ΦΟΒΕΡΩΤΕΡΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΔΕΙΝΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΦΑΛΑΓΓΟΣ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΚΗΣ" -Lucius Aemilius Paullus

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    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by satalexton View Post
    gibberish
    in english, Arabic, or German please?
    I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.

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    JEBMMP Creator & AtB Maker Member jirisys's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by satalexton View Post
    Και η ελληνική πρέπει να είναι κοινή μας γλώσσα...
    Kai i elliniké prépei na einai koiné mas glossa

    And Greek should be our common language, Don't impress me

    ~Jirisys (ludens edited this and forgot to add something comical here)
    Last edited by jirisys; 04-17-2010 at 15:34. Reason: language
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Because we all need to compensate...

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    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    I made a speculative map. the antiquity without rome

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    Varangarchos ton Romaioktonon Member Hannibal Khan the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Until Satalexton launches a crusade to retake (All Hail!!!) Makedonia....
    from Megas Methuselah for helping with city names from Hooahguy for my sig


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    Klibanophoros Ton Rhomaioktono Member Duguntz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    answer to a comment : someone told that none seemend to believe celtic would've been able to form a great state... and the answer is... NO they would have not. they would have stayed petty kingdoms waging war on petty kingdom. Though celtic was a great and beautiful culture, they were innapt to become a ''civilisation'', and hence, left traces of a beautiful culture, way of life, but nothing to be compared to a civilisation of it's own. at sometime or another, maybe a great king would have risen... but for what, 15 years? he would have been swallowed by the first of his successor! that's why no one say words about celtics becoming a great kingdom until the medieval time. Don't think i'm blasting! i love celtic culture and I've gaul ancestry, but this is a realistic account,!
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  7. #7
    Sandwich Maker Member Kikaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    If Rome never became prominant, the Celts would have definitely dominated much of Italy and would likely have carried on until modern times. However, Carthage would probably have picked a fight with them, the Greeks, certainly Germans; there are virtually endless variables therein.

    Quote Originally Posted by plutoboyz View Post
    I made a speculative map. the antiquity without rome
    How did you make that? I have a near obsession with cartography and geography so I NEED to know.


  8. #8
    Sandwich Maker Member Kikaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plutoboyz View Post
    download some SVG file from Wikimedia. then you can edit it with Coreldraw or any vector based Image editing software or convert it into png and edit it in Photoshop..
    Thanks, would Gimp work well (if they're now Vista compatible) in this endeavor?


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    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kikaz View Post
    Thanks, would Gimp work well (if they're now Vista compatible) in this endeavor?
    I don't know about gimp. never try it. if its Vector-based, it should work well.

  10. #10
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by plutoboyz View Post
    I don't know about gimp. never try it. if its Vector-based, it should work well.
    it does.
    I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.

    my 4 year old modding project--nearing completion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219506 (if you wanna help, join me).

    tired of ridiculous trouble with walking animations? then you need my brand newmotion capture for the common man!

    "We have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if we put the belonging to, in the I don't know what, all gas lines will explode " -alBernameg

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    Lover of Beauty Member Imperator Invictus's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    The World without Rome:


  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    I don't understand why you people are thinking that American cultures couldn't form some great empires? Have you forgot the Incas and the Aztecs? They are a bit out of the timeframe but I doubt Carthaginians would've sent armies across the ocean to conquer some strange lands. First of all, Europeans only managed to conquer the New World because of their plagues and gunpowder. Civilizations in New World and in the Old World were not that different if we consider the technology. So, it would take a 20000-40000 men to start conquering the America. But considering the amount of money and supplies needed to support that money..
    Any empire in the Europe at that time would've been bankrupt very fast! They couldn't support larger armies for a long time in Europe why do you think they could support and army thousands of miles from Europe across the ocean? So, thinking that some Celtic people would colonize the Northern America and Carthaginians would take over Southern America is utopia and fantasy!
    There would be contacts of course but no conquests or something like that.

  13. #13
    Uergobretos Senior Member Brennus's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator Invictus View Post
    The World without Rome:

    Nice map, but (forgive me if I am reading this wrong) what makes you think that Germans would have established themselves in Britain? Also your Gothic settlement of North America seems a little questionable- any possible evidence to suggest the Goths could have achieved such gains?


    With regards to Ibn-Khaldun, I doubt that Native Americans could have become major powers in Europe mainly becuase of their lack of metallurgical technology. However I agree with you there is no evidence to suggest Carthage would have become the Spanish Empire of an alternative future.

    Folks could you simply focus on Eurasia and Africa without theorising what goes on in the New World, please. Any theories of what would happen to America I think have the tendency to become clouded by nationalist feelings e.g. any Welsh forum users will likely colonize the Americas with Celts whilst Polish would probably do the same with Slavs... I only dread to think what Cute Wolf would colonize it with.



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    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator Invictus View Post
    The World without Rome:

    Phoenician seems too distorted. also why chola is in Indonesia? they in fact never managed to conquer anything here. inflience? yes, conquest? no.
    also there is any posibility for Native American to expand.

  15. #15
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    I wonder if capitalism and humanism would have developed? Or would it have taken a different shape or would we have stayed in a preindustrial cycle of fedual state -> centralized state and back and forth.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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    πολέμαρχος Member Apázlinemjó's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    I wonder if capitalism and humanism would have developed? Or would it have taken a different shape or would we have stayed in a preindustrial cycle of fedual state -> centralized state and back and forth.
    Without Rome, we would live on space stations already.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
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    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    btw, just remove Romani from EB and start a campaign with it. then see what happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kikaz View Post
    If Rome never became prominant, the Celts would have definitely dominated much of Italy and would likely have carried on until modern times. However, Carthage would probably have picked a fight with them, the Greeks, certainly Germans; there are virtually endless variables therein.


    How did you make that? I have a near obsession with cartography and geography so I NEED to know.
    download some SVG file from Wikimedia. then you can edit it with Coreldraw or any vector based Image editing software or convert it into png and edit it in Photoshop..
    Last edited by Ludens; 04-17-2010 at 11:43. Reason: merged posts

  18. #18
    Satalextos Basileus Seron Member satalexton's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by plutoboyz View Post
    btw, just remove Romani from EB and start a campaign with it. then see what happen.
    We actually have a concept for a submod with just that, lurking adrift in our group discussions.




    "ΜΗΔΕΝ ΕΩΡΑΚΕΝΑΙ ΦΟΒΕΡΩΤΕΡΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΔΕΙΝΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΦΑΛΑΓΓΟΣ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΚΗΣ" -Lucius Aemilius Paullus

  19. #19
    Lover of Beauty Member Imperator Invictus's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    ….all you talked about were Celts, Muslims and Carthage, but Celts will never unify or have a single religion (like the Dacians who could unify the Thracians and had Zalmoxianism) and Islam could not appear without Christianity (because Mohamed won’t have the opportunity to travel in Eastern Empire and learn about Christianity), Zoroastrianism will be the dominant religion, and Carthage, well they don’t have the capability to expand more than Western Mediterranean.
    You forgot about Dacians, with no Romans to conquer them I think that they will complete the unification, especially in the face of gothic and nomadic threats.
    !!You should think first and than post something!!


    Now, the real World without Romans:

    - many Celtic kingdoms in Western Europe (they will never unify!)

    - phoenic remnants in Italy, Spain and North Africa (some will be republics, they will colonize South America)

    - Dacian Empire in Eastern Europe (will keep the bloody nomads in Asia, I am sure, because they kept for so many years the scytians, sarmatians and bastarnae)

    - Goths in North Europe (will colonize North America)

    - Persians in Anatolia (with the Zoroastrianism, because Islam could not appear without Christianity)

    - In Asia the old civilizations Persia, India and China will have to couple with extra nomadic threats (Huns, Bulgars, Avars, Turks, Magyars) and their empires will fall a few times.

    …so Brennus, you can give now your balloon
    Last edited by Imperator Invictus; 04-17-2010 at 10:44.

  20. #20
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    I think Christianity would exist. but fewer follower because no Roman. Islam exist because its never relied on Christianity and yes fewer follower, because Persian still Zoroastrianism. although there are similarity between Islam and Christianity, it was because they came from same roots. not because Islam was influenced by Christianity.

  21. #21
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    I think Christianity would exist. but fewer follower because no Roman.
    Christianity needed a Romanesque society to flourish.
    This space intentionally left blank.

  22. #22
    Lover of Beauty Member Imperator Invictus's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    Christianity will not exist because the Parthians will conquer the Seleucid domains and Judea will be an ally or protectorate of Parthians and the Jewish society won’t require a messiah to free them.
    Probably the Hasmoneans and the Ptolemeis will remain in power as puppets of Parthians. First, they will require Parthian help against the Seleucids, and later to remain in power. I imagine this because in real history they allied with the Romans against Seleucids, and with no Romans it's naturally they will go tho the Parthians

    Maybe John the Baptist and Jesus will manage to reform the Orthodox Judaism but it will be a reformed Judaism (not Christianity), only for Jews. So please try to imagine the historical evolution without Christianity and Islam......
    You have Zoroastrianism, Zalmoxianism, Germanic and Celtic Polytheism....etc. so live Christianity and Islam
    You could imagine however how the Phenician religion will evolve in South-West, perhaps will evolve in monotheism, with Baal as the only god.
    Last edited by Ludens; 04-17-2010 at 13:56. Reason: merged posts

  23. #23

    Default Re: SPQR? Who?

    on religion:
    Christianity would be unlikely to become more than a small regional cult if at all. Islam could exist and spread but It's unlikely that it would exist at all. You know the granpa paradox? imagine you'd just shoot your grandpa into the leg. that way it is still possible that you were born but though altering the timeline it is still VERY unlikely.

    on Celts hmmm well I too doubt that they would have united out of nowhere to a great pan Celtic empire or less than 10 somewhat powerfull national states by 0ad. but I'd give them 400 years under constant german pressure to evolve into "something" that could maybe even withstand the hunnic invasion. maybe just a loose league of petty kingdoms somewhat like the Hellens. Surely tho they would have had some teconological advances on their own speaking of which I think that the Mediterranean area would not be much less technically evolved but that differences would be much greater in terms of who has developed what thus there would be great potential in technological exchange.

    we have to remember that if Dacians or Celts or even Germans could withstand Nomadic invasions there would have been no dark ages, no middle ages and certainly no need for Renaissance. thus progress would have been much more linear than it was. without thousand years of darkness europe and north africa would have been further advanced compared to .... china(an area without much roman influence)

    concerning supermacy, I'm not sure if carthage would have expanded as agressive as that surely they would have estabished a mighty trade empire throughout the Mediterranean and have contors on virtually every coast, I'm not certain that they would have gone further. they are the best candidate for discovering the new world(maybe a greek or celt would do it but they would fund it) but I doubt they would rule over italian mainland for any supstancial amount of time.
    as I'm not very well informed about the Italic peoples I'm unsure who would have pervailed but as rumor has it its the samnites^^ and then we have our dear Phyrrus who has somewhat became an EB mascott.^^ beat the Samnites? yes maybe. ruled over italy? no, not him. he would have just been driven out of italy later. And we'd still call a Phyrric victroy a phyrric victory just not in english but some strage Greco-celtic dialect ;)
    sofar I've somewhat ignored the Parthians as it seems. I'd say Parthian rule over anatolia. and if more, ... well atleast they are not as destructive as their nomadic brothers and carry with them the persian culture. :D thus they would not spur a dark age upon conquering eastern europe.
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