SPQR? Who?

[Imperator Invictus]

The World without Rome:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I don't understand why you people are thinking that American cultures couldn't form some great empires? Have you forgot the Incas and the Aztecs? They are a bit out of the timeframe but I doubt Carthaginians would've sent armies across the ocean to conquer some strange lands. First of all, Europeans only managed to conquer the New World because of their plagues and gunpowder. Civilizations in New World and in the Old World were not that different if we consider the technology. So, it would take a 20000-40000 men to start conquering the America. But considering the amount of money and supplies needed to support that money..
Any empire in the Europe at that time would've been bankrupt very fast! They couldn't support larger armies for a long time in Europe why do you think they could support and army thousands of miles from Europe across the ocean? So, thinking that some Celtic people would colonize the Northern America and Carthaginians would take over Southern America is utopia and fantasy!
There would be contacts of course but no conquests or something like that.

[Brennus]

The World without Rome:

Nice map, but (forgive me if I am reading this wrong) what makes you think that Germans would have established themselves in Britain? Also your Gothic settlement of North America seems a little questionable- any possible evidence to suggest the Goths could have achieved such gains?


With regards to Ibn-Khaldun, I doubt that Native Americans could have become major powers in Europe mainly becuase of their lack of metallurgical technology. However I agree with you there is no evidence to suggest Carthage would have become the Spanish Empire of an alternative future.

Folks could you simply focus on Eurasia and Africa without theorising what goes on in the New World, please. Any theories of what would happen to America I think have the tendency to become clouded by nationalist feelings e.g. any Welsh forum users will likely colonize the Americas with Celts whilst Polish would probably do the same with Slavs... I only dread to think what Cute Wolf would colonize it with.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

@Brennus, I think you misunderstood. I never said that Native Americans would become major powers in Europe. I meant that Europeans were not that technologically superior over the Americans. If there would've been some trading between the Native Americans and Europeans then most likely the former would have learned how to make iron etc and the difference between the two worlds would've become even smaller.

[Brennus]

@ Ibn-Khaldun I do apologise, i see what you mean now. Yes your quite right cross-Atlantic trading links could have enabled Native Americans to have developed a level of technology on par with Europe. Thinking about it now the Vinland settlement did not enjoy any great technological advantage of the native neighbours, and the massive Spanish gains can be attributed to sheer good luck on Spain's part.

And thats the last I am saying on America or I will be a hypocrite, now, back to Eurasia!

[plutoboyz]

@Brennus, I think you misunderstood. I never said that Native Americans would become major powers in Europe. I meant that Europeans were not that technologically superior over the Americans. If there would've been some trading between the Native Americans and Europeans then most likely the former would have learned how to make iron etc and the difference between the two worlds would've become even smaller.

Maybe in late medieval times, some Polynesian encounter american and boom! American Have army polynesian have navy. if they not at war of course.

[Cute Wolf]

and yes, if without Rome, means no Islam, then Majapahit empire will conquer All asia....... HAHAHAHAAHAH

[plutoboyz]

and yes, if without Rome, means no Islam, then Majapahit empire will conquer All asia....... HAHAHAHAAHAH

but will never whole Java! hahahhahaha....

[Cute Wolf]

but will never whole Java! hahahhahaha....

pretty true, especially when I made most Pajajaran units have 2 HP... (btw, they are fewer, lightly armoured but more skilled = result in having bunch of 2 HP guys running arround)

[plutoboyz]

The World without Rome:

Phoenician seems too distorted. also why chola is in Indonesia? they in fact never managed to conquer anything here. inflience? yes, conquest? no.
also there is any posibility for Native American to expand.