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Sex and the single black woman
How the mass incarceration of black men hurts black women
Apr 8th 2010 | From The Economist print edition
IMAGINE that the world consists of 20 men and 20 women, all of them heterosexual and in search of a mate. Since the numbers are even, everyone can find a partner. But what happens if you take away one man? You might not think this would make much difference. You would be wrong, argues Tim Harford, a British economist, in a book called “The Logic of Life”. With 20 women pursuing 19 men, one woman faces the prospect of spinsterhood. So she ups her game. Perhaps she dresses more seductively. Perhaps she makes an extra effort to be obliging. Somehow or other, she “steals” a man from one of her fellow women. That newly single woman then ups her game, too, to steal a man from someone else. A chain reaction ensues. Before long, every woman has to try harder, and every man can relax a little.
Real life is more complicated, of course, but this simple model illustrates an important truth. In the marriage market, numbers matter. And among African-Americans, the disparity is much worse than in Mr Harford’s imaginary example. Between the ages of 20 and 29, one black man in nine is behind bars. For black women of the same age, the figure is about one in 150. For obvious reasons, convicts are excluded from the dating pool. And many women also steer clear of ex-cons, which makes a big difference when one young black man in three can expect to be locked up at some point.
Removing so many men from the marriage market has profound consequences. As incarceration rates exploded between 1970 and 2007, the proportion of US-born black women aged 30-44 who were married plunged from 62% to 33%. Why this happened is complex and furiously debated. The era of mass imprisonment began as traditional mores were already crumbling, following the sexual revolution of the 1960s and the invention of the contraceptive pill. It also coincided with greater opportunities for women in the workplace. These factors must surely have had something to do with the decline of marriage.
But jail is a big part of the problem, argue Kerwin Kofi Charles, now at the University of Chicago, and Ming Ching Luoh of National Taiwan University. They divided America up into geographical and racial “marriage markets”, to take account of the fact that most people marry someone of the same race who lives relatively close to them. Then, after crunching the census numbers, they found that a one percentage point increase in the male incarceration rate was associated with a 2.4-point reduction in the proportion of women who ever marry. Could it be, however, that mass incarceration is a symptom of increasing social dysfunction, and that it was this social dysfunction that caused marriage to wither? Probably not. For similar crimes, America imposes much harsher penalties than other rich countries. Mr Charles and Mr Luoh controlled for crime rates, as a proxy for social dysfunction, and found that it made no difference to their results. They concluded that “higher male imprisonment has lowered the likelihood that women marry…and caused a shift in the gains from marriage away from women and towards men.”
Learning and earning
Similar problems afflict working-class whites, but they are more concentrated among blacks. Some 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock. The collapse of the traditional family has made black Americans far poorer and lonelier than they would otherwise have been. The least-educated black women suffer the most. In 2007 only 11% of US-born black women aged 30-44 without a high school diploma had a working spouse, according to the Pew Research Centre. Their college-educated sisters fare better, but are still affected by the sex imbalance. Because most seek husbands of the same race—96% of married black women are married to black men—they are ultimately fishing in the same pool.
Black women tend to stay in school longer than black men. Looking only at the non-incarcerated population, black women are 40% more likely to go to college. They are also more likely than white women to seek work. One reason why so many black women strive so hard is because they do not expect to split the household bills with a male provider. And the educational disparity creates its own tensions. If you are a college-educated black woman with a good job and you wish to marry a black man who is your socioeconomic equal, the odds are not good.
“I thought I was a catch,” sighs an attractive black female doctor at a hospital in Washington, DC. Black men with good jobs know they are “a hot commodity”, she observes. When there are six women chasing one man, “It’s like, what are you going to do extra, to get his attention?” Some women offer sex on the first date, she says, which makes life harder for those who prefer to combine romance with commitment. She complains about a recent boyfriend, an electrician whom she had been dating for about six months, whose phone started ringing late at night. It turned out to be his other girlfriend. Pressed, he said he didn’t realise the relationship was meant to be exclusive.
The skewed sex ratio “puts black women in an awful spot,” says Audrey Chapman, a relationship counsellor and the author of several books with titles such as “Getting Good Loving”. Her advice to single black women is pragmatic: love yourself, communicate better and so on. She says that many black men and women, having been brought up by single mothers, are unsure what role a man should play in the home. The women expect to be in charge; the men sometimes resent this. Nisa Muhammad of the Wedded Bliss Foundation, a pro-marriage group, urges her college-educated sisters to consider marrying honourable blue-collar workers, such as the postman. But the simplest way to help the black family would be to lock up fewer black men for non-violent offences.
Sex and the single black woman
How the mass incarceration of black men hurts black women
Apr 8th 2010 | From The Economist print edition
IMAGINE that the world consists of 20 men and 20 women, all of them heterosexual and in search of a mate. Since the numbers are even, everyone can find a partner. But what happens if you take away one man? You might not think this would make much difference. You would be wrong, argues Tim Harford, a British economist, in a book called “The Logic of Life”. With 20 women pursuing 19 men, one woman faces the prospect of spinsterhood. So she ups her game. Perhaps she dresses more seductively. Perhaps she makes an extra effort to be obliging. Somehow or other, she “steals” a man from one of her fellow women. That newly single woman then ups her game, too, to steal a man from someone else. A chain reaction ensues. Before long, every woman has to try harder, and every man can relax a little.
Real life is more complicated, of course, but this simple model illustrates an important truth. In the marriage market, numbers matter. And among African-Americans, the disparity is much worse than in Mr Harford’s imaginary example. Between the ages of 20 and 29, one black man in nine is behind bars. For black women of the same age, the figure is about one in 150. For obvious reasons, convicts are excluded from the dating pool. And many women also steer clear of ex-cons, which makes a big difference when one young black man in three can expect to be locked up at some point.
Removing so many men from the marriage market has profound consequences. As incarceration rates exploded between 1970 and 2007, the proportion of US-born black women aged 30-44 who were married plunged from 62% to 33%. Why this happened is complex and furiously debated. The era of mass imprisonment began as traditional mores were already crumbling, following the sexual revolution of the 1960s and the invention of the contraceptive pill. It also coincided with greater opportunities for women in the workplace. These factors must surely have had something to do with the decline of marriage.
But jail is a big part of the problem, argue Kerwin Kofi Charles, now at the University of Chicago, and Ming Ching Luoh of National Taiwan University. They divided America up into geographical and racial “marriage markets”, to take account of the fact that most people marry someone of the same race who lives relatively close to them. Then, after crunching the census numbers, they found that a one percentage point increase in the male incarceration rate was associated with a 2.4-point reduction in the proportion of women who ever marry. Could it be, however, that mass incarceration is a symptom of increasing social dysfunction, and that it was this social dysfunction that caused marriage to wither? Probably not. For similar crimes, America imposes much harsher penalties than other rich countries. Mr Charles and Mr Luoh controlled for crime rates, as a proxy for social dysfunction, and found that it made no difference to their results. They concluded that “higher male imprisonment has lowered the likelihood that women marry…and caused a shift in the gains from marriage away from women and towards men.”
Learning and earning
Similar problems afflict working-class whites, but they are more concentrated among blacks. Some 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock. The collapse of the traditional family has made black Americans far poorer and lonelier than they would otherwise have been. The least-educated black women suffer the most. In 2007 only 11% of US-born black women aged 30-44 without a high school diploma had a working spouse, according to the Pew Research Centre. Their college-educated sisters fare better, but are still affected by the sex imbalance. Because most seek husbands of the same race—96% of married black women are married to black men—they are ultimately fishing in the same pool.
Black women tend to stay in school longer than black men. Looking only at the non-incarcerated population, black women are 40% more likely to go to college. They are also more likely than white women to seek work. One reason why so many black women strive so hard is because they do not expect to split the household bills with a male provider. And the educational disparity creates its own tensions. If you are a college-educated black woman with a good job and you wish to marry a black man who is your socioeconomic equal, the odds are not good.
“I thought I was a catch,” sighs an attractive black female doctor at a hospital in Washington, DC. Black men with good jobs know they are “a hot commodity”, she observes. When there are six women chasing one man, “It’s like, what are you going to do extra, to get his attention?” Some women offer sex on the first date, she says, which makes life harder for those who prefer to combine romance with commitment. She complains about a recent boyfriend, an electrician whom she had been dating for about six months, whose phone started ringing late at night. It turned out to be his other girlfriend. Pressed, he said he didn’t realise the relationship was meant to be exclusive.
The skewed sex ratio “puts black women in an awful spot,” says Audrey Chapman, a relationship counsellor and the author of several books with titles such as “Getting Good Loving”. Her advice to single black women is pragmatic: love yourself, communicate better and so on. She says that many black men and women, having been brought up by single mothers, are unsure what role a man should play in the home. The women expect to be in charge; the men sometimes resent this. Nisa Muhammad of the Wedded Bliss Foundation, a pro-marriage group, urges her college-educated sisters to consider marrying honourable blue-collar workers, such as the postman. But the simplest way to help the black family would be to lock up fewer black men for non-violent offences.
Honest answers please folks.
I want it understood that voting "no" does not imply any xenophobia or racism, it could simply be recognition of what clearly exists as a fact, i.e. that attractiveness for some people includes a affinity to the same race, for a variety of different reasons, in addition to all the other social and cultural reasons that spark attraction between two individual.
If you are an overly sensitive PC type who is subject to this then please, vote first and comment later to anonymize your shame rather than pander to the liberal stereotype of being hip and 'modern' about all things racial, i want genuine reactions.
This post/poll is prompted by my surprise that african american woman weren't prepared to look outside the limited pool of african american men for a partner, a fact which i find strange, so I am wondering how prevalent this attitude is outside the single demographic mentioned..........................?
I personally would be delighted to go out with a smokin' hot lady of african descent, the more exotic the better in my opinion, as too me that in itself is a powerful cause for physical attraction.
But i realize not everyone has the same impulses for attraction.
Go for your life.
I want it understood that voting "no" does not imply any xenophobia or racism, it could simply be recognition of what clearly exists as a fact, i.e. that attractiveness for some people includes a affinity to the same race, for a variety of different reasons, in addition to all the other social and cultural reasons that spark attraction between two individual.
If you are an overly sensitive PC type who is subject to this then please, vote first and comment later to anonymize your shame rather than pander to the liberal stereotype of being hip and 'modern' about all things racial, i want genuine reactions.
This post/poll is prompted by my surprise that african american woman weren't prepared to look outside the limited pool of african american men for a partner, a fact which i find strange, so I am wondering how prevalent this attitude is outside the single demographic mentioned..........................?
I personally would be delighted to go out with a smokin' hot lady of african descent, the more exotic the better in my opinion, as too me that in itself is a powerful cause for physical attraction.
But i realize not everyone has the same impulses for attraction.
Go for your life.
i like most girls who are good looking, i have had asian and latino girlfriends. honestly though im not really attracted to blakc women.
For me the problem wouldn't be that people of different races aren't attractive (although I've got to say I never really think black women look that attractive).
But when I think of having half-black or half-Chinese children, I just can't imagine seeing them as my own.
Terrible thing to say I know, but that's just the way it is. Maybe it's nature, maybe it's a social thing, idk.
But when I think of having half-black or half-Chinese children, I just can't imagine seeing them as my own.
Terrible thing to say I know, but that's just the way it is. Maybe it's nature, maybe it's a social thing, idk.
Originally Posted by :
This post/poll is prompted by my surprise that african american woman weren't prepared to look outside the limited pool of african american men for a partner, a fact which i find strange, so I am wondering how prevalent this attitude is outside the single demographic mentioned..........................?
I would say it's a culture thing more than a race thing...that would be my guess (in America anwyay).This post/poll is prompted by my surprise that african american woman weren't prepared to look outside the limited pool of african american men for a partner, a fact which i find strange, so I am wondering how prevalent this attitude is outside the single demographic mentioned..........................?
I don't think I could stick with a 250 metre, since I am a big fan of the 100 metre.
que?
Originally Posted by Centurion1:
i like most girls who are good looking, i have had asian and latino girlfriends. honestly though im not really attracted to blakc women.
that's ok, you aren't expected to find every race equally attractive.i like most girls who are good looking, i have had asian and latino girlfriends. honestly though im not really attracted to blakc women.
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
For me the problem wouldn't be that people of different races aren't attractive (although I've got to say I never really think black women look that attractive).
But when I think of having half-black or half-Chinese children, I just can't imagine seeing them as my own.
Terrible thing to say I know, but that's just the way it is. Maybe it's nature, maybe it's a social thing, idk.
not really, personal preference trumps all, whatever that might be. this is your own personal preference we are talking about, not society's group expectations.For me the problem wouldn't be that people of different races aren't attractive (although I've got to say I never really think black women look that attractive).
But when I think of having half-black or half-Chinese children, I just can't imagine seeing them as my own.
Terrible thing to say I know, but that's just the way it is. Maybe it's nature, maybe it's a social thing, idk.
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro:
I would say it's a culture thing more than a race thing...that would be my guess (in America anwyay).
sure i accept culture is part of it, might be a bit of a nature/nurture argument where is it impossible to properly disentangle the two for absolute accuracy.I would say it's a culture thing more than a race thing...that would be my guess (in America anwyay).
I don't mind, every race has beautiful women and if the character fits, might actually be more exciting due to the cultural differences etc.
Not that I'm talking from experience or anything.
Not that I'm talking from experience or anything.
None of the responses really fits my view. If she is good looking, she's good looking. However, finding someone who's a good, decent person ranks slightly higher on my priority list. My answer would be a "yes", but not really because I have an affinity for "exotic" girls or only want one who's "sorta white". Like Husar, I'd say there's plenty of pretty girls in most races. It comes down to the girl, not the race.
Originally Posted by Furunculus:
Honest answers please folks.
I can't really answer honest when I have to choose between Honest answers please folks.
a ) Yes - The more exotic the better from my point of view
or b)Yes - Provided they are not too disimilar (e.g. different asiatic, or different caucasian))
A middle ground would be nice.
I won't answer about "marriage", but I cannot say that I've encountered "ugly races". Nice question, though.
perhaps we can take (a) to mean that race is simply not an issue, and that other factors will determine attraction.
That's what I assumed.
Originally Posted by Viking:
I can't really answer honest when I have to choose between
a ) Yes - The more exotic the better from my point of view
or b)Yes - Provided they are not too disimilar (e.g. different asiatic, or different caucasian))
A middle ground would be nice.
I won't answer about "marriage", but I cannot say that I've encountered "ugly races". Nice question, though.
Absolutely agree. It's not really a matter of race. I will even put the way "b" is formulated under a criticism. I've met some really attractive African women and I doubt that any person from whatever race he/she is will question their beauty.I can't really answer honest when I have to choose between
a ) Yes - The more exotic the better from my point of view
or b)Yes - Provided they are not too disimilar (e.g. different asiatic, or different caucasian))
A middle ground would be nice.
I won't answer about "marriage", but I cannot say that I've encountered "ugly races". Nice question, though.
I will say that while I find beautiful women of all races......I find more white women to be beautiful then women of any other race.
so while it is certainly possible that I would marry outside my race I don´t find it the most likely scenario.
so while it is certainly possible that I would marry outside my race I don´t find it the most likely scenario.
personally i would say that finland, poland and slovenia are tied for creating the prettiest ladies, so perhaps there is a Caucasian element to my preference, but I am certainly keen yo 'experience' beauty wherever it is to be fond, and that beauty to me is at least in part defined by its difference to what i perceive as the norm.
no english roses for me i'm afraid.
no english roses for me i'm afraid.
Vietnamese chicks
As for marriage, too late. I am not at all likely to marry outside my own race and 100% likely to already be married within it.
As for a broader question of attraction, I am certainly not equally attracted to women of varying races. I'd say I prefer women of my own race, then women of mixed races including my own, and then women entirely of others, with some races more preferred than others. I would separate attraction and beauty, though, as I can recognize women as beautiful (sometimes stunningly so) but still not my type, and not a source of attraction.
Ajax
edit: for marriage of course, other factors play at least as big a role as beauty/attraction, or at least I certainly think they should.
As for a broader question of attraction, I am certainly not equally attracted to women of varying races. I'd say I prefer women of my own race, then women of mixed races including my own, and then women entirely of others, with some races more preferred than others. I would separate attraction and beauty, though, as I can recognize women as beautiful (sometimes stunningly so) but still not my type, and not a source of attraction.
Ajax
edit: for marriage of course, other factors play at least as big a role as beauty/attraction, or at least I certainly think they should.
Originally Posted by The Article:
But the simplest way to help the black family would be to lock up fewer black men for non-violent offences.
I don't agree with the undercurrent of the article, which essentially follows the oft-repeated theme of blaming every one and every thing for black society's problems except for black people. The simplest way to help the black family would be for fewer black men to commit criminal offences. Oh, and to start acting like men, not dogs. But the simplest way to help the black family would be to lock up fewer black men for non-violent offences.
I believe PJ is using "dogs" here in its metaphorical sense, i.e. behaving in a self-serving manner and not setting aside personal interest in favor of family and committment. As such, it is not intended as a racist slur, but is a behavioral critique. SF
I live in a majority black city, and I must say that I am not at all impressed with American "black" culture as I have experienced it. As I believe Sasaki mentioned, though, it is about culture - not race. Many blacks do not live their lives in the way the article describes.
As for the OP's question... probably not.
It is (another) good argument against the war on drugs though.
Decision already made for me. Turns out I married another white Catholic like myself. Can't say as race figured into it so much as her being attracted to me did. Nineteen years together and I still can't believe I got that lucky.
Race? Race is a very small thing when you really think about it. Rather said it has marred so much of our history as a species.
Poll also lacks a: "couldn't care less one way or the other" option.
Race? Race is a very small thing when you really think about it. Rather said it has marred so much of our history as a species.
Poll also lacks a: "couldn't care less one way or the other" option.
For some reason, I don't see attractiveness in other races. Don't see a lot of it in any girl/guy.
for some interesting and unknown factor, I always think that Chinese, Korean, or Vietnamese girls are much prettier than Japanese, even when most can't tell the difference between them..... maybe that was the result of watching too much JAV...
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
Poll also lacks a: "couldn't care less one way or the other" option.
i kind of intended for the for option to include that viewpoint, but seeing as you're the second person to point out the flaw in the phrasing of option (a) I would be happy for you to edit the poll to include a more specific "couldn't care less one way or the other" option.Poll also lacks a: "couldn't care less one way or the other" option.
Funny really, I don't see 'mom' as black. She is of course but she's just 'mom' to me. It's worked out well for 'mom' and my dad. Two very different cultures but somehow they seem to dovetail together nicely. We treat her to yorkshire pudding and curries, traditional English foods and she treats us to jerk chicken and gumbo, traditional black American foods. She does have a very good sense of humour which helps. It took her some time to 'get' the English humour but now she has, she thinks it's hilarious. Plus she loves the UK, like she said she didn't have to learn a new language when she first moved over here, she just had to learn how to spell properly.
People are just people.
As for myself, I had a negro girlfriend when I was in my teens. Never really thought anything of it. If you fancy a bird you ask them out. If they say no, hard cheese, if yes, whoopee!
People are just people.
As for myself, I had a negro girlfriend when I was in my teens. Never really thought anything of it. If you fancy a bird you ask them out. If they say no, hard cheese, if yes, whoopee!
I voted for option four, not because I find non-white women unattractive, but because my ideal is the "English Rose", one of the most attractive things for me is alabaster skin, along with slightly flushed cheeks and full mouth, add dark hair and warm dark eyes and I'm likely to be poleaxed.
Having said that; I've met some real corkers from other locales.
Having said that; I've met some real corkers from other locales.
Jerk chicken is more of a carribean specialty. Gumbo is Cajun.
interesting results so far, with twelve votes for totally unconcerned, and twelve votes where race plays some part in determining attraction, with just half a quarter of those who have a decided preference.
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
Jerk chicken is more of a carribean specialty. Gumbo is Cajun.
Indeed. Curry on the other hand is a well known English dish. Jerk chicken is more of a carribean specialty. Gumbo is Cajun.
Originally Posted by InsaneApache:
Indeed. Curry on the other hand is a well known English dish.
To each their own "cup of tea," but I though Tim was a yank....Indeed. Curry on the other hand is a well known English dish.
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