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Thread: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

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    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Face it. You all know this feeling; it usually comes when you play one of the Hellenic or Mediterranean factions. You've crushed your enemies and your lands now stretch far and wide. You look at the date. 200 BC. Err...damn. Either you have to face another superpower in a war that will only stop once you've decimated all of your opponents, but you're still looking for a fun challenge! What to do, what to do?

    Well, I have the solution for you! We call it the "civil war"!

    I - Getting Started

    Most of the EB players are roleplayers, and the trait system in EB works very well for roleplaying; due to the various types of traits (ethnicity, loyalty, charisma, intelligence, etc, etc) you can easily roleplay whatever you'd like to do! Let's take an example from my current Epirote campaign:

    The current year is 237 BC. The faction leader, Pyrrichos Aiakides is in North Africa, campaiging against the treacherous Karchedonians who deceitfully attacked Neapolis (Capua) when he was ousting the Romans from northern Italy. When his grandfather, Pyrrhos, conquered the city-states of Hellas proper (Thermon, Athenai, Chalkis, Korinthos, Sparte), he allowed the various rulers to retain some level of autonomy (level III government).

    To properly roleplay a civil war, we need to keep three things in mind:

    - The authority your faction leader has (is he sickly, cruel, mistrustful, fearful, etc)
    - The loyalty of the governors back home (disloyal family members, especially those that are directly related to the crown, yet do not hold a high position, are more prone to rebel)
    - The influence of your rebelling family members and the the influence of your faction leader (when a uncharismatic family member rebels, perhaps he would only take one or two settlements, but if a very charismatic 9/10 influence governor rebels, perhaps you'd lose half your empire! Your mileage may vary, of course).


    So what are good reasons to start a civil war? I'll take Epirote examples again

    - All of the Italian Roman settlements have been taken, and the remaing Romans in Massilia, Tolosa and Emporion have come to your faction to ask for a truce. You accept, and the Tarentinian general that has fought against the Romans is disgruntled by this decision. He proclaims himself independent from your rule and takes control of all of your cities in Italy!

    - You have recently been crushed in a huge battle with the Gauls; and Pyrrhos nephew thinks he can do a better job than your faction leader can at governing this empire; had he been in command, the Gauls would have known defeat instead of you. He decides to rally the Greek city-states against you and proclaim himself the true governor of Epiros.

    - The year is 199 BC, and the last family member of the Aiakides family has died out when doing battle with enemy x; moments before he died, he announced that his Illyrian/Liburnian/whatever non-Hellenic friend would command the empire. Disgruntled and fearful that the empire would turn into a barbarian state, the Hellenic cities in your empire revolt.

    These are just some examples, you can think of good (or bad, or humourous!) reasons for yourself to be the victim of a civil war to spice up your game a bit. When we analyse those happenings, we'll find three causes:

    Cause 1: Civil war due to supposed betrayal
    Cause 2: Civil war due to the loss of armies
    Cause 3: Civil war due to ethnic problems/xenophobia

    II
    Zen and the Art of Modding

    Welcome, young grasshopper, to the world of modding. Mod-do is the path to enlightenment, if you master it.

    Once you've decided what kind of civil war you want, you will need to edit some files:

    .../Rome - Total War/EB/data/descr_sm_factions.txt
    .../Rome - Total War/EB/data/text/expanded_bi.txt
    .../Rome - Total War/EB/data/scripts/show_me/genericScript.txt

    Before you do anything, make copiesof these files and keep them in a safe place.


    1) descr_sm_factions.

    Logically, you'd want your rebel faction to look cool. You should pick the kind of faction that your family members will "rebel to", so to say. Keep in mind that this has to be an existing faction. There is another way, but that one is very tedious and involves heavy scripting. Find the faction that closely resembles your culture (and preferably shares your barracks building). There are seven cultures in EB:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Barbarian: Aedui (gauls), Arverni (scythia), Sweboz (germans), Lusotannan (Spain), Getai (Dacia), Casse (britons)
    WesternGreek: Makedonia (macedon), Koinon Hellenon (greek_cities), Epeiros (thrace)
    EasternGreek: Arche Seleukeia (romans_julii), Ptolemaioi (numidia), Baktria (romans_brutii)
    Roman: Romani (seleucid)
    Eastern: Pontos (carthage), Hayasdan (romans_scipii), Pahlava (parthia)
    Nomad: Saka-Rauka (pontus), Sauromatae (armenia)
    Semitic: Saba (saba), Kart-Hadast (egypt)

    The names between brackets are their internal names. This means that if you are looking for Epeiros in the descr_sm_factions file you should look for "thrace". There is just one thing you'd need to do here, and it's very optional. You could change the colour of your own faction as well as the "rebel" faction. For example, I used bright red for the rebelling faction in my Epirote campaign (the Achaian League) while I took on a dark-blueish colour.

    The factions that share barracks are these:

    Factional MIC:

    Aedui - Arverni - Casse
    Koinon Hellenon - Epeiros
    Makedonia - Baktria
    Arche Seleukeia - Ptolemaioi
    Romani
    Qart Hadast
    Getai - Swęboz
    Lusotannan - Sab'yn
    Pahlava - Saka Rauka - Sauromatae (nomad camps/courts)
    Pahlava
    Pontos - Hayasdan

    Regional MIC:

    Aedui - Arverni - Casse - Getai - Lusotannan - Swęboz
    Epeiros - Koinon Hellenon - Makedonia
    Arche Seleukeia - Baktria - Ptolemaioi
    Hayasdan - Pahlava - Pontos
    Saka Rauka - Sauromatae
    Qart Hadast- Sab'yn
    Romani

    Thanks to athanaric for clearing up how the barracks system works, exactly.


    2) expanded_bi

    This file is pretty cool. Here the names are defined of every faction in-game. So if you are Arche Seleukeia, and say, you RP that Syria is revolting, you could change the name of the Ptolemaioi to "Basileion Suriakon" or something like that, and gift them the settlements. Don't forget to do this for every line! So you should change "Ptolemaioi army" to "Syrian army", etc, etc.

    3) genericScript

    Okay, this can be one of the hardest parts.

    1) Check who you want to revolt to a different faction. If I want Alexandros Aiakides (for example) to revolt, I'm going to look him up on the campaign map. I remember where I found him (or use the toggle_fow cheat)
    2) Save the game under a different name! Like: EpirosCivilWar or something
    3) Go to the genericScript file and find these lines:

    Code:
    script
        console_command toggle_perfect_spy
    end_script
    And then add this line:

    Code:
    script
        console_command toggle_perfect_spy
    console_command control faction 
    end_script
    Of course, it shouldn't be "faction", but the internal name of the faction you want to control (in my case, greek_cities (Koinon Hellenon)).

    3) Save the file.
    4) Launch your EB campaign again, and press F1. Then click the question mark, followed by clicking "show me how" button.
    5) Your turn ends. This is normal. When your turn comes up, you'll notice you'll control the faction you wanted to control. Take a diplomat and move him to the character(s) you want to rebel. To avoid freakish RTW ai behaviour while you're away, you could just use the "move_character" cheat.
    6) Bribe the character(s). Make sure they are bribable in the first place, so you'll need a diplomat with some influence and the characters you need to bribe have the "seditious" or "venal" traits. I mean, disloyal characters wouldn't rebel in the first place, now would they?
    7) Save the game.
    8) Go back to the genericScript file. Change the lines to

    Code:
    script
        console_command toggle_perfect_spy
    console_command control originalfaction
    end_script
    Of course, originalfaction should not be written there! So if you are Seleukeia, type romans_julii

    9) Reload your game, follow step 5 again. Turn ends, and look! You are in control of your original faction again. Let the fun begin.


    III
    So what now? - Getting used to civil wars

    Of course, it would be quite boring if you would manage to restore peace within a year. While it did happen, it's not as fun. It all depends on what kind of civil war you want to have. MarcusAureliusAntoninus pretty much let half of his empire rebel and lost some of his border provinces, but if you would like to just to lose a couple of provinces, that's fine too! It's about what you enjoy. Some tips:

    - Allow yourself some time before reacting, especially if your governor is far away. It would be even better if you managed to lose another few provinces (apart from the starting ones) to the rebels!
    - When in control of the other factions, bribe some armies hanging around as well. It's even better! You can take control of a guy and recruit some mercenaries that will aid him in his resolve.
    - Experiment around with the size of rebellions. Lose your capital! Lose all your family member, except your faction leader, and perhaps a brother or sons or something)! Raise the stakes! There are a lot of possibilities. Look at Rome and their constant rebellions from the first century onward. Look at the way the Seleucid empire disintegrated!
    - Don't forget to save. A lot. This is crucial to having fun, and it always allows you to revert back if you've lost your empire made a mistake.
    - To make sure the AI won't do weird things, try entering this line as well into the script:

    Code:
    command_console disable_ai
    This makes sure they don't go wandering around and gives you some more time to do stuff.
    If there's anything you don't understand, feel free to post here, or if you have anything to say at all, post as well. Enjoy your EB!

    - Hax

    Also, I will make one further post that deals with my current Epirote rebellion game. Pictures included!
    Last edited by Hax; 04-20-2010 at 19:31.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    There's only one appropriate answer to this effort:
    Thanks for explaining this so clearly. A very nice guide.
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    -count: a lot from Arthur, king of the Britons for some modding help.

  3. #3
    Pincushioned Ashigaru Member Poulp''s Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    Face it. You all know this feeling; it usually comes when you play one of the Hellenic or Mediterranean factions. You've crushed your enemies and your lands now stretch far and wide. You look at the date. 200 BC. Err...damn. Either you have to face another superpower in a war that will only stop once you've decimated all of your opponents, but you're still looking for a fun challenge! What to do, what to do?

    - All of the Italian Roman settlements have been taken, and the remaing Romans in Massilia, Tolosa and Emporion have come to your faction to ask for a truce. You accept, and the Tarentinian general that has fought against the Romans is disgruntled by this decision. He proclaims himself independent from your rule and takes control of all of your cities in Italy!
    Confess, Hax, you were actually monitoring my gamesave.

    Consider this thread bookmarked and soon put into good use. I've got the perfect candidate for a rebel prince, I have the screenshots. Once I find the dedication, I'll get a AAR done.

    One last word about all this: BACK UP everything before you start modding.

  4. #4
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Confess, Hax, you were actually monitoring my gamesave.
    You found out! Whatever am I to do? In any case, I'm making screenshots right now, so you all have a better idea of what it looks like.
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  5. #5
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Something about the barracks:

    It's important to note that there are factional and regional barracks, which have different alignments. Notably the regional MICs are grouped by culture, whereas the factional ones are more placed for gameplay reasons. Apparently you confused some of them. Here's a revised list:


    Factional MIC:

    Aedui - Arverni - Casse
    Koinon Hellenon - Epeiros
    Makedonia - Baktria
    Arche Seleukeia - Ptolemaioi
    Romani
    Qart Hadast
    Getai - Swęboz
    Lusotannan - Sab'yn
    Pahlava - Saka Rauka - Sauromatae (nomad camps/courts)
    Pahlava
    Pontos - Hayasdan


    Regional MIC:

    Aedui - Arverni - Casse - Getai - Lusotannan - Swęboz
    Epeiros - Koinon Hellenon - Makedonia
    Arche Seleukeia - Baktria - Ptolemaioi
    Hayasdan - Pahlava - Pontos
    Saka Rauka - Sauromatae
    Qart Hadast- Sab'yn
    Romani




    Swęboz guide for EB 1.2
    Tips and Tricks for New Players
    from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    awesome guide Hax! I might have to try this in one of my campaigns...

  7. #7
    Sovereign of all England! Member Donkey Kong Champion Arthur, king of the Britons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Real awesome guide! Some questions though.

    2) Save the game under a different name! Like: EpirosCivilWar or something
    Do you mean that one should copy their EB folder/file, change the name of that file and do the changes to the copied one?
    And are there any bugs/gamebreaking glitches associated with these changes?
    Last edited by Arthur, king of the Britons; 04-20-2010 at 15:18.


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    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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  8. #8
    Pincushioned Ashigaru Member Poulp''s Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur, king of the Britons View Post
    Do you mean that one should copy their EB folder/file and do the changes to the copied one?
    And are there any bugs/gamebreaking glitches associated with these changes?
    I think you should make a bacth copy/paste of your EB folder, and make another, different, game save (ie, what I should have done a few days ago...)

    Hax,

    After further reading I have two questions:

    - "disable_ai" what does it do ? Does it prevent the ai from donig anything ? moving troops, building... buildings ?

    - Do you require a dead faction to implement your civil war ?

  9. #9
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Do you mean that one should copy their EB folder/file, change the name of that file and do the changes to the copied one?
    And are there any bugs/gamebreaking glitches associated with these changes?
    Yes, the safest thing you can do is just to make a copy of that file. My EB folder looks something like this:

    .../EB/data/descr_sm_factions.txt
    .../EB/data/descr_sm_factions_orig.txt
    .../EB/data/text/expanded_bi.txt
    .../EB/data/text/expanded_bi_orig.txt

    In fact, I currently use four seperate EB installations (1.1, 1.2, 1.2 with mods and another backup 1.2 with some other things)

    And are there any bugs/gamebreaking glitches associated with these changes?
    Changes like these won't likely corrupt anything, but when modding, you should always be on the safe side. Like sex.

    - "disable_ai" what does it do ? Does it prevent the ai from donig anything ? moving troops, building... buildings ?
    Everything. It prevents the AI from doing anything at all. I've just found that it doesn't work in a script, but it does seem to work in the normal console box. So just open up your game, open the console box (~) type "disable_ai" and the AI will stop functioning. It will be reverted again once you restart your game.

    2) No, you require a living faction. I don't know what happens when you try to control a dead faction, but it won't work at all. Maybe this changes with the M2TW engine, but I'm not sure!


    athanaric: Thank you very much, I'll incorporate it in my beginning post
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    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Good Guide!!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Hax, a question.

    If the rebelling part of your empire needs to be modded to become another faction, does that faction need to be completely wiped out before the rebellion happens?

    E.g. if I am Epirus, and want my Epirote rebels to use the Koinon Hellenon faction slot (greek_cities), does that mean I have to wipe out KH first? Or should I leave at least one KH city (e.g. Rhodes) alone before I make the modding changes? Or will bringing a 'dead' faction back to life this way mess up the EB script?
    Last edited by Titus Marcellus Scato; 04-21-2010 at 07:39.

  12. #12
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    E.g. if I am Epirus, and want my Epirote rebels to use the Koinon Hellenon faction slot (greek_cities), does that mean I have to wipe out KH first? Or should I leave at least one KH city (e.g. Rhodes) alone before I make the modding changes? Or will bringing a 'dead' faction back to life this way mess up the EB script?
    No, the faction you use to rebel has to be alive with at least one city, somewhere. It won't work with dead factions at all.
    Last edited by Hax; 04-21-2010 at 08:46.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    excellent, truly excellent.
    definitely has given me some great ideas....
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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    This guide deserves a

    I did a civil war in my campaign, and it was such fun that I was truly happy when it was finally over. It ruined the finances of my empire, I lost Iran completely (and deliberately) and I had to simulate requirations and slave labour and stuff while restricting myself to a military-only spending policy. But it made the roleplay-progress plausible, and it was fun, and for that reason I can recommend a civil war to anyone.

    Now that I think of it, I had even two... you can always let some provinces rebel and have a nice, tiny, cozy civil war witout much teleporting and cheat-building of armies. Everyone should have a civil war, and everyone should mod his game to simulate a progress if you play a non-reform faction.

  15. #15
    Gentis Daciae Member Cronos Impera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    One small question regarding the console_command control. Do I activate the GenericScript after the EBBS or before the EBBS? Do I activate the EBBS at all when changing factions with the console_command?
    And after pressing the ShowMeHow button do I press the End Turn button, the X marker for dismissing the advice or click on the portrait?
    Does it work also with RTW 1.5 or 1.6?
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  16. #16
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    One small question regarding the console_command control. Do I activate the GenericScript after the EBBS or before the EBBS? Do I activate the EBBS at all when changing factions with the console_command?
    Eh...it's been a while. If you activate the EBBS at all, you activate the GenericScript afterwards. To be on the safe side, I wouldn't activate the EBBS, though (since I believe certain things like victory conditions are found in the EBBS, and it might get confused.

    After pressing the ShowMeHow button, press the X marker.

    It works with RTW 1.5 and 1.6.
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  17. #17
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    Don't know why I've never seen this thread before and sorry for the necro but I'm a bit confused.

    So, in your game the KH had one settlement left, Rhodos I guess?
    When doing this it will turn the whole chosen faction into my new rebellious faction right? So, it is not advisable to use the Ptolemaioi to emulate a civil war in Syria (when playing the AS) if they still control most of their territories, because all of egypt would turn into the "Basileon Suriakon" as well, right?

    Have more people experience with this? What would you suggest doing for a roman civil war?
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Hax's Great Guide to Civil War

    I think a Roman civil war would be the hardest to do, because the Romans don't share a culture or either factional or regional barracks with any other faction.

    Probably the best way to do it would be to have the rebellion happen outside of Italy, and have a regional rebellion based on a local culture. So if the rebellion happens in Gaul, use a Gallic faction as the original faction to become the Roman rebels (assuming they are still 'alive' with one settlement left). If the rebellion happens in Greece, use a Greek faction. If in Spain, use the Lusotanns. If in Africa, use the Carthaginians.

    This happened historically, in a way, since (from Ceasar's point of view) Pompey was a rebel, and Pompey's power base was in Roman-occupied Greece and Asia Minor (former Macedonian and Seleucid territory).

    It would be nice, for a Roman civil war, if you could mod EB to limit another faction to recruiting Roman-style units, the closest local equivalents to Roman units, by making their 'non-Roman-style' units unavailable.

    Examples of 'pseudo-imitation legionaries':
    Boii Swordsmen: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...it&unit=celtic infantry boii&text=&ownership=any&class=any&category=any
    Elite African Infantry: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...t=carthaginian infantry dorkim afrikanim aloophim&text=&ownership=any&class=any&category=any
    Hellenic Spearmen: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...it=hellenistic infantry thureophoroi&text=hellenic&ownership=any&class=any&category=any
    Greek Heavy Hoplite Phalanx: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...nit&unit=greek infantry epikletoi hoplitai&text=greek&ownership=any&class=any&category=any
    Hellenic Heavy Spearmen: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...nit&unit=greek infantry thorakitai&text=hellenic&ownership=any&class=any&category=any
    Pontic Heavy Infantry: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...t&unit=eastern infantry pontic thorakitai&text=&ownership=any&class=heavy&category=infantry

    But a better alternative would be to mod another faction to be able to recruit Roman units and use the Roman barracks - but I've no idea how to do that.
    Last edited by Titus Marcellus Scato; 11-30-2011 at 13:49.

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