Dinner Time!

[Brennus]

Wine back then would also have had alot of grit in it. Take for example the Vix krater, it comes complete with a sieve on the top to filter the wine. Does anyone know when spirits first began to be distilled in Europe? I know whiskey was present in Europe by the Dark Ages.

[Andronikos]

I have read, that ancient Egyptian or middle eastern beer was more like a soup than a drink.
Brennus, that is interesting, where have you tasted that beer I would like to taste something ancient even if it would be plain, but AFAIK there is no possibility in proximity.

[Macilrille]

You can come to Denmark and try some medieval and viking age beer. We do not know the exact recipies, but the experiments are foten damn good. One of the best I have tried used oak bark instead of hops.

[Ibrahim]

You can come to Denmark and try some medieval and viking age beer. We do not know the exact recipies, but the experiments are foten damn good. One of the best I have tried used oak bark instead of hops.

you scandinavians and your beer-swilling ways...bringing hops to the masses like that

since we are on the subject, what exactly is hops? I keep hearing about it, but being a complete virgin to alcohol (and not planning on changing that), I have no clue what it is.

[Brennus]

you scandinavians and your beer-swilling ways...bringing hops to the masses like that

since we are on the subject, what exactly is hops? I keep hearing about it, but being a complete virgin to alcohol (and not planning on changing that), I have no clue what it is.

Hopps is a plant. It began to be added to beer in Europe towards the end of the middle ages, starting in Germany and the low countries. Hopps makes the drink more bitter but allows you to extract a higher level of alcohol from your mash and thus enable beer to last longer. In the British isles it was introduced in the 15th century by Dutch refugees and it had the result of making the beer industry in England and Scotland professional and male dominated. Prior to hopps introduction the vast majority of beer was brewed by women in cottage industries.

[Brennus]

I have read, that ancient Egyptian or middle eastern beer was more like a soup than a drink.
Brennus, that is interesting, where have you tasted that beer I would like to taste something ancient even if it would be plain, but AFAIK there is no possibility in proximity.

I was at a conference in County Sligo, Ireland. One of the speakers was discussing a Neolithic feature (the name escapes me) which is found in Ireland. This feature is effectively a stone trough or cist which is sunk into the ground. Now people are not sure what these were used for and this speaker was suggesting that they could have been used for both baking bread and for brewing beer. He had conducted experiments with his own home made version of the feature and was kind enough to bring in samples of what he had brewed. His name was Gerard Flynn and I think his paper was published by the Institue of Technology Sligo, if you can find it I am sure the recipe is listed.

[Cadwalader]

There is a recipe for beer that was written down by the Sumerians in the form of a hymn to Ninkasi, the goddess of beer. It was made of honey bread, dates and (unmalted?) grain. Apparently they did not filter it after the fermentation and drank it fresh so it must have been very yeasty.

Before hops became popular, people used naturally occuring herbs like Sweet gale to flavour their beer, but I am not sure how old this practice is.

[A Nerd]

I'm not trying to be a goof, but will these beers and wines from antiquity make you tipsy? Or is the alcohol content weaker?

edit: garum sauce sounds good. What did it top?

[HunGeneral]

I'm not trying to be a goof, but will these beers and wines from antiquity make you tipsy? Or is the alcohol content weaker?

I read somewhere that ancient Wines and Beers had somewhat less alcohol then what is the average today. Beer had many ingrediants (aswell as plants with narcotic effects) so I quess it didn't have much alcohol but you still could get drunk from it.

I must say that I'm not sure wether that is true for Wine though - I read they drank it with 2/3 water ratio which means they added some water to it, which atleast here is almost considered an insult to the Drink. One can still get drunk from it but has to drink more for the effect.

Alittle off topic: how popular is Wine mixed with soda water in West Europe nowadays? I'm just curious...

[Cute Wolf]

I read somewhere that ancient Wines and Beers had somewhat less alcohol then what is the average today. Beer had many ingrediants (aswell as plants with narcotic effects) so I quess it didn't have much alcohol but you still could get drunk from it.

I must say that I'm not sure wether that is true for Wine though - I read they drank it with 2/3 water ratio which means they added some water to it, which atleast here is almost considered an insult to the Drink. One can still get drunk from it but has to drink more for the effect.

Alittle off topic: how popular is Wine mixed with soda water in West Europe nowadays? I'm just curious...

Same goes here, we're mixing tea with vodka / rhum / whatever high alcohol drinks....

[Andronikos]

Same goes here, we're mixing tea with vodka / rhum / whatever high alcohol drinks....

Isn't that considered an insult to the tea in your country? BTW, what about hot drinks in antiquity, was tea imported from India or China at least to eastern parts of the EB map? So that our debate about food doesn't turn totally into alcoholic one.

"Fröccs" = cheap white wine + soda
"Vadász/Leó/VBK" = cheap red wine + cola
"Dízel" = cheap wheat beer + cola
"Fény" = cheap vodka with raspberry syrup poured from soda syphon
I don't know it's slang name = energy drink + champagne

You also forgot Radler = Sprite + beer

[Mediolanicus]

Didn't the Gaul (or was in about the Belgae I read?) became completely wasted rather fast, because they drunk undiluted wine according to the Romans?

Alittle off topic: how popular is Wine mixed with soda water in West Europe nowadays? I'm just curious...

Not popular at all. Like you say, it is an insult to the drink.
I do know some people who put some ice cubes in their Rosé wines. That adds some water. But not in red or white wines. Never.

[HunGeneral]

Not popular at all. Like you say, it is an insult to the drink.
I do know some people who put some ice cubes in their Rosé wines. That's adds some water. But not in red or white wines. Never.

So I thought. Like I said adding normal water is considered an insult around here aswell although I should add that adding soda (what counts is the Carbon dioxide not the water) is quite common and very popular - its done with cheap wines in pubs to give them a better aftertaste. It really makes those better, but it should not be used with quality or sweet wine - most of the time it just spoils it.

[Mulceber]

I read somewhere that ancient Wines and Beers had somewhat less alcohol then what is the average today. Beer had many ingrediants (aswell as plants with narcotic effects) so I quess it didn't have much alcohol but you still could get drunk from it.

I must say that I'm not sure wether that is true for Wine though - I read they drank it with 2/3 water ratio which means they added some water to it, which atleast here is almost considered an insult to the Drink. One can still get drunk from it but has to drink more for the effect.

Alittle off topic: how popular is Wine mixed with soda water in West Europe nowadays? I'm just curious...

Well, that's true of the wine, but it should be remembered that undiluted ancient wine was actually a syrup, so it's not that we drink unmixed wine, we just have it pre-mixed. -M