Dinner Time!

[Brennus]

you scandinavians and your beer-swilling ways...bringing hops to the masses like that

since we are on the subject, what exactly is hops? I keep hearing about it, but being a complete virgin to alcohol (and not planning on changing that), I have no clue what it is.

Hopps is a plant. It began to be added to beer in Europe towards the end of the middle ages, starting in Germany and the low countries. Hopps makes the drink more bitter but allows you to extract a higher level of alcohol from your mash and thus enable beer to last longer. In the British isles it was introduced in the 15th century by Dutch refugees and it had the result of making the beer industry in England and Scotland professional and male dominated. Prior to hopps introduction the vast majority of beer was brewed by women in cottage industries.

[Apázlinemjó]

So I thought. Like I said adding normal water is considered an insult around here aswell although I should add that adding soda (what counts is the Carbon dioxide not the water) is quite common and very popular - its done with cheap wines in pubs to give them a better aftertaste. It really makes those better, but it should not be used with quality or sweet wine - most of the time it just spoils it.

I don't think that the Western Europeans know these drinks like:

"Fröccs" = cheap white wine + soda
"Vadász/Leó/VBK" = cheap red wine + cola
"Dízel" = cheap wheat beer + cola
"Fény" = cheap vodka with raspberry syrup poured from soda syphon
I don't know it's slang name = energy drink + champagne

[Cadwalader]

In Norway a mix of liquor and soda (originally brandy or whiskey) is called a "pjolter". I think you'd be laughed at if you ordered that now, as it's a bit old-fashioned. I could be wrong though, as I don't go to bars.

According to the wikipedia, "kongepjolter" is a mix of champagne and cognac, while "pjoltergeist" is a pun that describes alcohol-induced hallucinations.

[Lord Sweatpants]

I don't think that the Western Europeans know these drinks like:

"Fröccs" = cheap white wine + soda
"Vadász/Leó/VBK" = cheap red wine + cola
"Dízel" = cheap wheat beer + cola
"Fény" = cheap vodka with raspberry syrup poured from soda syphon
I don't know it's slang name = energy drink + champagne

Ah, but you forgot the famous combination of cola+soda!

Drink of the Gods! (of heart faliure)

[Cute Wolf]

Ah, but you forgot the famous combination of cola+soda!

Drink of the Gods! (of heart faliure)

did the Hellenes invent soda?

[ziegenpeter]

If I lived in Sweboz land... maybe I'll have enough fun hunting wild boars, but all I need for a complete set of Sweboz dinner is:

- some fresh vegetables with boiled eggs
- a big chunk of Roasted boar with honey...
- a dish of whale steak
- a soup made of cheesy cream with goat intestines
- and don't forget, a big tube of beers....

Well I fear I wouldn't like "germanic" food that much. It was mostly mash of barley, rye etc. sometimes even roots. Meat was rather rare (not medium ^^) And for the beer: I guess it wasn't that foamy and sparkling as modern german beer but flat and rather low on alcohol. Fortunatly there wa still mead!

[Andronikos]

Same goes here, we're mixing tea with vodka / rhum / whatever high alcohol drinks....

Isn't that considered an insult to the tea in your country? BTW, what about hot drinks in antiquity, was tea imported from India or China at least to eastern parts of the EB map? So that our debate about food doesn't turn totally into alcoholic one.

"Fröccs" = cheap white wine + soda
"Vadász/Leó/VBK" = cheap red wine + cola
"Dízel" = cheap wheat beer + cola
"Fény" = cheap vodka with raspberry syrup poured from soda syphon
I don't know it's slang name = energy drink + champagne

You also forgot Radler = Sprite + beer

[Lord Sweatpants]

did the Hellenes invent soda?

Wouldn't put it past them. :P

[Brennus]

Right now I am in the mood for lying in the sun just outside Rhodes harbour with a kebab of roasted swallows and a side dish of fish fried in olive oil, some local olives and goats milk cheese. Drinking some diluted wine and just watching the ships come and go.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Right now I am in the mood for lying in the sun just outside Rhodes harbour with a kebab of roasted swallows and a side dish of fish fried in olive oil, some local olives and goats milk cheese. Drinking some diluted wine and just watching the ships come and go.

I can see it before me already, wow I would love that!!

I would also enjoy a sunny day as Romani aristocrat at my Campanian villa. Drinking some Falernian wine, eat some meat snacks served by my servants, maybe have someone play one of those authentic Romani themes. Ah... That would be life....

~Fluvius

[stratigos vasilios]

I would also enjoy a sunny day as Romani aristocrat at my Campanian villa. Drinking some Falernian wine, eat some meat snacks served by my servants, maybe have someone play one of those authentic Romani themes. Ah... That would be life....

So long as it's an EB Romani tune...

[antisocialmunky]

How would you put CO2 in solution back then other than letting something ferment in a pressure sealed container like a well corked amphora?

[Brennus]

Well how do we carbonise drinks now?

[MerlinusCDXX]

How would you put CO2 in solution back then other than letting something ferment in a pressure sealed container like a well corked amphora?

Well how do we carbonise drinks now?

I know for beer, water, and soda, you just use a CO2 tank, regulator and sealed pressure keg combo, cool the liquid to about 35 degrees Fahrenheit, and apply 15 to 20 psi of top pressure (NEVER use more pressure than a keg is rated for! That's a great way to blow up your keg.). If you want your liquid to dissolve a bit more CO2, gently agitating (usually by shaking) the contents every once in a while will help.

[Brennus]

Based on that information i seriously doubt the Greeks had fizzy drinks.

[Brennus]

This may seem like a silly question (forgive me I don't know much about civillian Roman life) but did the Romans (or anyone else for that matter) have restaurants in the form that we would recognise?

At the moment I think the best place to live in terms of food would be southern Gaul, quite close to Massalia, you would have access to the northern "barbarian" hearty meals but also be able to purchase exotic luxuries to improve your dinner.

[Cute Wolf]

in ancient Roman cities, we can found some eating houses sold baked breads, wine, and meats... it was mentioned in EB I think

just like today's pizza stall, but without tomato

[Brennus]

in ancient Roman cities, we can found some eating houses sold baked breads, wine, and meats... it was mentioned in EB I think

just like today's pizza stall, but without tomato

Interesting. Thanks Cute Wolf!

[Cadwalader]

I read in an article(yes, I know how meaningless that makes my post) that Roman noblemen sometimes wrote travel logs, complete with tavern recommendations. Strabo recommended one inn for its food. I'll try to find this article.

[Os-Q]

Maybe a little bit out of the timeframe, but I have this paragraph from "The Totally Useless History of the World" (I couldn't find my copy of the "Horrible Histories: The Rotten Romans" which actually has some reciepes it it, but I'll keep a lookout for it)

"Sow's womb and Mackerel Guts - by the 1st century AD only one in ten people in Rome had access to a hearth where they could cook - so the purveyors of takeaway food did a roaring trade. For the wealthy who dined at home, popular items included roast dormouse, kale covered in saltpetre, and sow's womb (served with or without udders). Spattered over everything was a ubiquitous fish sauce called garum, made from slow cooked mackerel guts (production of the pungent, salty sauce within the city was prohibited on account of the stench). A disk for special occasions was the porcus troianus (Trojan pig), a whole roasted pig stuffed with fruit and sausages. Brought to the table standing on its legs, its belly was then cut open, letting spill the sausages as if they were the animal's entrails. By this time the earlier fashion of allowing one's fish to expire at table (preferably in a sauce) had gone out of favour."

From "The Totally Useless History of the World" by Ian Crofton

[artavazd]

Ancient Armenia: Beer, wine, grains, mutton, beef, fruites ( especialy grapes, pomogranites, apricuts) and nuts

[moonburn]

for the co2 i believe romans used special waters in m land there are 2 very famous types of water who already posses the co2 in them and it is said that romans used to import them in large quantities since they where considered medicinal

garum probably isn´t much diferent from sardine or any other type of fish paté i mean people eat tuna sandwishes nowadays

as for the menu i would probably pick either egypt or seulecia since i like my food spicy so living without indian scpices would be a rather dull meal (i mean my ancestors went into the sea to get those spices)

as for adding stuff to the wine depends alot on the wine if you dare to touch a massala a rioja a oporto or a madeira wine you´re practically comiting sacrilege but if it´s a bad wine most people do like the spanish and add soda and/or ice cubes and call it "tinto verano" or summer red wine

as for soda being invented by the greeks i don´t know but as i said first sparkly water ocurs naturally in nature you just had to find a way to add sugar to it

[MerlinusCDXX]

for the co2 i believe romans used special waters in m land there are 2 very famous types of water who already posses the co2 in them and it is said that romans used to import them in large quantities since they where considered medicinal

garum probably isn´t much diferent from sardine or any other type of fish paté i mean people eat tuna sandwishes nowadays

as for the menu i would probably pick either egypt or seulecia since i like my food spicy so living without indian scpices would be a rather dull meal (i mean my ancestors went into the sea to get those spices)

as for adding stuff to the wine depends alot on the wine if you dare to touch a massala a rioja a oporto or a madeira wine you´re practically comiting sacrilege but if it´s a bad wine most people do like the spanish and add soda and/or ice cubes and call it "tinto verano" or summer red wine

as for soda being invented by the greeks i don´t know but as i said first sparkly water ocurs naturally in nature you just had to find a way to add sugar to it

Actually, garum would most likely resemble namh pla (Thai or Vietnamese fish sauce), they are made by a similar method. They probably used different types of fish though.

[Duguntz]

I read in an article(yes, I know how meaningless that makes my post)

And tell me why does it make your post meaningless? I read a lot, and though can quote my stuff, though, i've a serious memory problem with names, i can't never remember who wrote that... still, i don't consider my posts meaningless! All knowledge is good, all ignorance is bad!

[Cute Wolf]

I still wonder, can I have rice when I was in Roman, Carthaginian or Western Greek lands?

[Apázlinemjó]

I still wonder, can I have rice when I was in Roman, Carthaginian or Western Greek lands?

In EB timeframe, I don't think so. However in the late Roman Empire, I'm pretty sure you could get rice if you were enough rich to buy it.

[Cute Wolf]

In EB timeframe, I don't think so. However in the late Roman Empire, I'm pretty sure you could get rice if you were enough rich to buy it.

wonders... did the poor eat wheat bread... or did they eat porridge?

[Cadwalader]

And tell me why does it make your post meaningless? I read a lot, and though can quote my stuff, though, i've a serious memory problem with names, i can't never remember who wrote that... still, i don't consider my posts meaningless! All knowledge is good, all ignorance is bad!

I expect people here to want some sourced is all. And I couldn't find this article or any other mention of travel guides.
I couldn't even find the article in my browser history, which is strange. It's like I dreamt it, only it seems beyond me to make up an article in my sleep.

[alexanderthegreater]

BOOZE!
If i were rich, I would go on a drinking yourney, drinking all 5 kinds of ancient Egyptian beer, all undiluted wines (apparantly the hellens dilute it the wusses), oh and has garum alcohol in it?
Anybody know what the strongest drink was they could serve in antiquity?

What would Romans eat at your average orgy anyway? It sure sounds like those people knew how to party

[Brennus]

BOOZE!
What would Romans eat at your average orgy anyway? party

Pussy. Sorry that was poor taste but I couldn't resist. Probably foods associated with Venus?

I was wondering at what point pasta became a staple food in southern Italy and what it replaced.