SB 1070 Or The Arizona Immigration Bill

[Strike For The South]

Good for Arizona. Too bad they can't dump them back over the border where they belong. How far we've sunk when both political parties are in paralysis out of fear of the Mexicans....

These people have no real understanding of how a civil society functions and it shows back home. Mexico can proudly boast of being the only non-first world nation in North America. They’ll become nothing more than Democratic block voters if they are given amnesty, and we already have one minority that specializes in that.

Fear of the Mexicans? No it's more like taking a sledgehammer to a broken arm.

We need to attack the buisness that hire illegals and stop giving them social services that they don't pay into. Frankly I really don't care if they are here when they can't get a job and can't suck of the system. I guran got dang tee you they will leave in droves.

How this law will not alienate Arizonas sizeable latino pop is beyond me. ESP when it lends itself so eaisly to discrimination. Either check everyones papers or no ones papers

Well, you could carry your passport instead.

I'm an American, I don't have one.

The only country worth visiting was Mexico and up until a little while ago you didn't need a passport for that.

Now I'm stuck paying market price for tequlia, perscription drugs, and donkey shows.

[The Stranger]

sounds alot like the ID-duty in europe where you must carry at all times your ID papers.

[Lemur]

I'm gonna go ahead and provoke a Godwin by noting that it's a lot of fun to yell, "SHOW US YOUR PAPERS!" in a German accent. The louder you yell it, the more fun you're having.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Für Husar!


This German Nazi is America's future!

[Husar]

I'm gonna go ahead and provoke a Godwin by noting that it's a lot of fun to yell, "SHOW US YOUR PAPERS!" in a German accent. The louder you yell it, the more fun you're having.

See Strike's signature.

And thanks Louis!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

1. Remove the jobs from the market -- no new laws required, just enforce existing. Needs people power.

2. Close the traffic in illegals across our border with Mexico -- needs new materials and people power.

3. De-criminalize drugs and tax it like any other import.

4. Inform Mexico that they are responsible for their citizens and their citizens general welfare. Farming out the responsibility and cost to us so as to obviate the need for Mexico to provide whatever support is deemed appropriate for their own citizens out of their own budget is no longer acceptable. If they want the rights and benefits of citizens of the USA, then they should petition for statehood (by regions).

5. Increase the number of legal immigrants.

6. Create a useful system for temporary work visas that doesn't require papal intercession to function quickly.


Arizona's law, however well intended, is likely to be too flawed in execution not to be struck down.

We already carry ID on us almost constantly.

[Kadagar_AV]

[About passports]

I'm an American, I don't have one.

The only country worth visiting was Mexico and up until a little while ago you didn't need a passport for that.

Now I'm stuck paying market price for tequlia, perscription drugs, and donkey shows.

Would be fun if it wasnt so true. The % of americans having visited another country is... Diminutive to say the least.


About the Arizona immigration bill... I find it logical.

I think we have the same rule in Sweden. Of course, if you are white you wont be asked by the police to show your papers. And if you speak an OK swedish you wont either.

Basicly, this is just a tool to make it easier for the police to catch the REAL illegal immigrants... If legal immigrants have to have some paper with them, who cares? They choose to immigrate! If they dont like it, go back.

I do not quite understand the backlash... You think the police will randomly hold up some white mother of 3, ask for her papers, and if she cant show them they will send her to mexico? Or what?

[Hosakawa Tito]

Hehehe, I just received this email from a friend:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".

Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...





You are part of the problem!

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
What are you waiting for? Pass it on.

Illegal immigrants need to get in line and go through the same process as the legal ones. Seamus has some good ideas on stemming the tide, but unfortunately re-election politics gets in the way. Welcome back Don! I feel your cynicism.

[Kadagar_AV]

I am a moderator who just got an email, and I will copy it here without any sources what so ever

*golf clap*

Would you mind backing it up with some, say, evidence? Statistics? Articles?

Whatever that isnt a ctrl-c of a mass-sent spam mail?

Don't get me wrong, I am very much against immigration... However, that also means I am against STUPID arguments/people/proof not backed up by evidence against immigration, as it hurts my cause.

An extra golden star as it was a mod who posted the ****.

[PanzerJaeger]

Fear of the Mexicans? No it's more like taking a sledgehammer to a broken arm.

The Democrats are drooling over the prospect of amnesty and millions of new little Democratos. They would never do anything to jeopardize that, regardless of the damage it does to the country.

The Republicans understand that Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in the nation, and if they were to vote in block for the Democrats along with other minorities it would force the GOP into permanent minority status and regional power. They know amnesty is coming, so they think they have to fight for the Mexicans while placating their anti-immigration base. That equates to some minor rhetoric against immigration with no real action - witness the presidency of George W. Bush.

What the Republicans don't realize is that they've already lost the Mexicans, so they might as well take a stand for what's right and let the cards fall where they may. Maybe they can pick up more white voters as the Democrats increasingly pander to the minorities. As we've seen, our lovely leader doesn't have any qualms about injecting race into the political dialogue and pitting one ethnic group against another.

The Democratic National Committee this morning released this clip of the president rallying the troops, if rather coolly, for 2010. Obama's express goal: "reconnecting" with the voters who voted for the first time in 2008, but who may not plan to vote in the lower-profile Congressional elections this year.

Obama speaks with unusual demographic frankness about his coalition in his appeal to "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."

So yes, everyone fears the Mexicans. They will be the game-changers in future elections.

*golf clap*

Would you mind backing it up with some, say, evidence? Statistics? Articles?

Whatever that isnt a ctrl-c of a mass-sent spam mail?

Don't get me wrong, I am very much against immigration... However, that also means I am against STUPID arguments/people/proof not backed up by evidence against immigration, as it hurts my cause.

An extra golden star as it was a mod who posted the ****.

He wasn't writing a thesis, and I don't think he posted it as solid evidence of anything. It's just a hypothetical situation that highlights some of the inequalities in our system.

[Kadagar_AV]

said stuff.

I know he wasnt writing a thesis. But still one would have hoped that spam-mail didnt work as discussion-material here. Or?

Following your logic, we would all have enhanced penises by now.

So why dont we get back to.... You know... Facts?

I have come to learn that facts is of no value in religious discussions, but can we PLEASE at least try to adhere to it when we talk about politics?

EDIT: This was in reply to the post before you edited it. Was a whole other content then.

And yes, I am very much aware that mods have no specific standards.

[Strike For The South]

Would be fun if it wasnt so true. The % of americans having visited another country is... Diminutive to say the least.


About the Arizona immigration bill... I find it logical.

I think we have the same rule in Sweden. Of course, if you are white you wont be asked by the police to show your papers. And if you speak an OK swedish you wont either.

Basicly, this is just a tool to make it easier for the police to catch the REAL illegal immigrants... If legal immigrants have to have some paper with them, who cares? They choose to immigrate! If they dont like it, go back.

I do not quite understand the backlash... You think the police will randomly hold up some white mother of 3, ask for her papers, and if she cant show them they will send her to mexico? Or what?

Looking white and speaking English are not Criteria for being an American, that's my exact problem with the bill it lends itself to discrimanation if you have a poor grasp of the english language or look like a poor Mexican.

The Democrats are drooling over the prospect of amnesty and millions of new little Democratos. They would never do anything to jeopardize that, regardless of the damage it does to the country.

The Republicans understand that Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in the nation, and if they were to vote in block for the Democrats along with other minorities it would force the GOP into permanent minority status and regional power. They know amnesty is coming, so they think they have to fight for the Mexicans while placating their anti-immigration base. That equates to some minor rhetoric against immigration with no real action - witness the presidency of George W. Bush.

What the Republicans don't realize is that they've already lost the Mexicans, so they might as well take a stand for what's right and let the cards fall where they may. Maybe they can pick up more white voters as the Democrats increasingly pander to the minorities. As we've seen, our lovely leader doesn't have any qualms about injecting race into the political dialogue and pitting one ethnic group against another.

One only needs to look at Texas And California to see that a conservative Mexican is alive and well in the States, I reject that narritive as I feel as more generations are born the more hispanics will break evenly.

By all social strata latins are already assimalating very quickly




So yes, everyone fears the Mexicans. They will be the game-changers in future elections.



He wasn't writing a thesis, and I don't think he posted it as solid evidence of anything. It's just a hypothetical situation that highlights some of the inequalities in our system.

[Husar]

Maybe the republican party should not just ignore the needs of the new minorities that are nonetheless US citizens.
If it ignores a large part of the voters it shouldn't blame the voters for it's own downfall.

Or do you allow illegal immigrants to vote?

[CountArach]

*golf clap*

Would you mind backing it up with some, say, evidence? Statistics? Articles?

Whatever that isnt a ctrl-c of a mass-sent spam mail?

Don't get me wrong, I am very much against immigration... However, that also means I am against STUPID arguments/people/proof not backed up by evidence against immigration, as it hurts my cause.

An extra golden star as it was a mod who posted the ****.

Settle down mate, the laughing at the start of the post clearly shows he didn't take it as a serious analysis. Further, Mods aren't held to any different standards as far as sourcing goes.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Democrats and Catholics support Mexican immigration, both for obvious reasons of demographic gain.

Both also have commendable respect for the human dignity of the immigrant. 'Profiteering criminals' is not the whole story. Many illegals live in deprived circumstance. There is a regimen of racial profiling, paramilitary abuse of force by out-of-control Border Patrol agents, the denial of due process, limited access to legal protection, destruction of families through deportations. They suffer exploitation and abuse, simply for seeking a better life.

I am vehemently opposed to amnesties, nor particularly fond of runaway mass immigration, least of all for reasons of political paralysis and outright social engineering. Nevertheless, one is dealing with people. Dignity and equality must be always maintained, if some fraternity can be thrown in that would be great too. I must grudgingly admit it is the left and the Catholics who provide it. A priest does not ask for a green card before giving food or shelter to someone in need.

Racial profiling is demeaning, not so much for the illegal as for the legal immigrant. Raids on workplaces, controls of papers, police stops - these thing make me uncomfortable, they are not a sign of a civilised state, they perpetuate a state of fear for illegals, increasing their defenselessness against exploitation and abuse.

Gah! Difficult subject.

the laughing at the start of the post clearly shows he didn't take it as a serious analysis.

Can you back this statement up with a serious source, or do you only have one gaming site forum post as proof there was laughing?

[rory_20_uk]

"Civilised" is merely defined by the times. Generally the yardstick that is used is the dominant society at the moment. Victorian England would not be counted as civilised by many by the standards we have today. The feeling might well be mutual.
A Priest generally has different priorities to a nation state.

The risks are currently seen to be lesser than the rewards. Only when the trip is not seen as profitable will the flow decrease.

[rory_20_uk]

I don't understand why screening and risk stratification are such taboo words. Medics do it all the time, as do vast number of other industries. We do it as it aids efficiency.

No one likes crime, but better the police randomly ask people if they did it than employ any methods that will target the greatest amount of crime with the least amount of resources in both time and money.