So, I am the only one thinking things are going downhill in Europe?

[Beskar]

Well if nothing is ever your personal responsibility I don't have to think very hard for an answer.

So all those people who got fired/laid-off because of the recession, it was all their fault?

There is only so much personal responsibility, but we live in a system. Peoples actions work with other peoples actions to produce certain results, and these can affect others who had nothing to do with the original action.

In the same breath, there are those who have been given a free-ride and never needed to take personal responsibility. Can these ever be accurately weighed up against some one who has worked hard, but constantly ended up down on their luck because of the system?

We don't live in a bubble by ourselves, which is where all individualistic arguments constantly and always fall apart. If we did, then people would have to simply take responsibility for all their actions. There are obvious differences between those who try and those who don't.


Should some one from Arab decent who has worked hard and lived a very good "western lifestyle" be stigmatised and discriminated against, just because some random arab in the newspaper did something bad? These generalisations hurt everyone involved and all they do is infact, breed the generalisations more.

[Fragony]

Is it really stigmatation? Might be where you are from, and I do not doubt the rare immigrant has to face discrimination. In the same way the locals who can't get the hell out of mutually respected areas are.

[Ironside]

Is it really stigmatation? Might be where you are from, and I do not doubt the rare immigrant has to face discrimination. In the same way the locals who can't get the hell out of mutually respected areas are.

I would say that the ones stigmataized in Menendil's case is the decent Arabs and probably part of the reason for the rise of more devoted Islam. The Arab "chavs" steal their Arab identity and the natural French counterreaction is stealing their French identity so what is left?

Well if nothing is ever your personal responsibility I don't have to think very hard for an answer.

So why is nothing ever their personal responsibillity? What you're describing is a symthom, not the cause. It's as pointless as saying "toughen up" to a PST. Or telling a crazy person to not be crazy (since it's a state of mind). If one part of the population is having much larger propotions of "lost causes", then there has to be some factors involved creating this. Fix those and you fix the problem.
Shout lack of personal responsibility, do nothing and the problems will simply disappear like they always do, do they?

[Fragony]

Nothing is ever their responsibility because the left can't accept that their multicultural utopia doesn't exist and will claw anything that isn't 'ok'. Their ideals will always come first, and perception becomes more important then reality. I am fixing the underlined cause, I will vote on anyone who wants to destroy the leftist church it's the only way.

[Ironside]

Nothing is ever their responsibility because the left can't accept that their multicultural utopia doesn't exist and will claw anything that isn't 'ok'. Their ideals will always come first, and perception becomes more important then reality. I am fixing the underlined cause, I will vote on anyone who wants to destroy the leftist church it's the only way.

And that would solve the integration problem how? You're calling them the lost generation, so evidently you won't try to fix them, you can't deport them (citizens since birth) or purge them. So you're still stuck with them.

Say that you are to teach a moron advanced physics. Unfortunatly his insane parents will burn down your house with you in it, if you fail. Your solution amounts to saying that the moron is too stupid for it and should have more dicipline, while complaining on those who let them enter in the first place, in your opinion.

But you might have some decent ideas, so whoop away with the multiculturalists. I suppose that means that you intend aggressive assimilation then? How?

[Megas Methuselah]

Can someone explain why multiculturalism is working well in Canada but, as Fragony keeps whining, is going to the **** out in euroland or wherever he lives? I'm confused.

[Furunculus]

density certainly plays a part, england and the netherlands are two of the most densely populated countries in europe.

[Fragony]

I don't have a solution, not being the problem will have to do for now. Why are you asking me for one? We weren't allowed to point out a problem after all, that was not 'ok'. I don't think I ever posted something as harsh as Menendil did here, I also don't agree most Arabs I know are awesome people.

[Megas Methuselah]

Ok, sure. Right on. Let's just all avoid my question that's fundamental to the whole damn situation.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well Canada is a country built by immigrants. Plus part of their national identity seems to be being the liberal version of the USA, so maybe xenophobia is seen as being against their ideals.

[Fragony]

Can someone explain why multiculturalism is working well in Canada but, as Fragony keeps whining, is going to the **** out in euroland or wherever he lives? I'm confused.

Yes you are since I don't say that, that's a leftist reflex. Menendil's post says a lot, he knows what he is supposed to say, he knows what he is supposed to think. But he no longer has the faith to do it. 'Faith'? What's in a word.

[Husar]

Ok, sure. Right on. Let's just all avoid my question that's fundamental to the whole damn situation.

I agree.

I think Furunculus already answered it partly.

In Canada you can dump the natives somewhere in a forest but in the Netherlands you will come across them every day. the differences are more noticeable, especially when you interact with them more often.
And what Rhyfelwyr hinted at, diversity, in the Netherlands it's the Dutch vs. the Middle Easterners, in Canada it's the French vs. English vs. Germans vs. Indian tribe 1 vs. Indian tribe 2 vs. Mexicans vs. people from the US etc.
So the solution would be that the dutch do two things:
1) conquer more Lebensraum
2) get more diverse immigrants, China has too many people for example, Germany has many unemployed etc.

On a more serious note, it's a complex subject and I don't think the solution is easy because the people involved are rather diverse, even those "two groups" have many shades of grey in between. Nonetheless Canada is a very different country from the Netherlands as we tried to say.

[Fragony]

Why do I always get the feeling that Hussy is hiding his superpowers

[Beskar]

Why do I always get the feeling that Hussy is hiding his superpowers

There are reasons surrounding his title of "Bratwurst Man" which he doesn't want too public, as he will get flooded with popularity.

[Fragony]

Captain Sausage just sounds better, also has the advantage of not excluding ICH BIN EIN FRANKFURTER as a proper battlecry.

edit ' Major Sausage' of course gawd

[Skullheadhq]

1) conquer more Lebensraum

Yeah, we'll send our mighty army forward to conquer Belgium.
Pic related, it's the average soldier of the Glorious Royal Dutch Army...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'll think we'll go for option two, Chinese people make good food and is underrepresented in crime, how much better can you have it?

[Fragony]

Army allows gays yes, they fight just as well so what's your problem. I know that it's haraam and they ought to be thrown from the highest floor, as we can hear, but really why would you do such a thing. And where did you find that pic, are you sure you hate gay people?

[Skullheadhq]

It's not that gay people are in the army, it's just that they are ******* that will cry if their Frikandelen and Haburgers won't be flow in in in the war zone, seriously, I heard they have barbecue every weekend. The Dutch army is one waste of money.

[Vladimir]

Homosexuals in the army isn't a bad thing. It's the gay people who shouldn't be let in.

[Husar]

Homosexuals in the army isn't a bad thing. It's the gay people who shouldn't be let in.

I agree, making it an emo army would be a lot more effective.

[Vladimir]

I agree, making it an emo army would be a lot more effective.

We can have the emo kids do psyops.

"Sir,

I don't know why all the Taliban we capture have slits on their wrists."

Stupid Taliban; they don't know to cut lengthwise.

[Fragony]

It's not that gay people are in the army, it's just that they are ******* that will cry if their Frikandelen and Haburgers won't be flow in in in the war zone, seriously, I heard they have barbecue every weekend. The Dutch army is one waste of money.

They do cry when their legs are blown of, do you think it's fun over there. They have more to worry about have a little respect, or don't, and tell them in their face buenos dias.

[PanzerJaeger]

It's not that gay people are in the army, it's just that they are ******* that will cry if their Frikandelen and Haburgers won't be flow in in in the war zone, seriously, I heard they have barbecue every weekend. The Dutch army is one waste of money.

How do you say idiotic in Dutch?

The only thing "wrong" with the Dutch military is the same thing that is wrong with most European militaries - it is too small and somewhat underfunded. They have fought bravely and performed very well in combat situations in Afghanistan.

[Tellos Athenaios]

For your future reference: an idiot is een idioot, en idiotic is idioot.

I agree that the current Dutch military is a capable force. I am not sure whether or not the force is underfunded per se; or at least the discrepancy in funding and ambition seems less compared to either UK or US forces. Then again, I'd say that the best use of the Dutch armed forces is as highly trained professionals co-operating with other European/NATO forces in joint missions, rather than a stand-alone army (for which we have no real need, since conventional 20th century warfare is not likely to break out in our immediate vicinity any time soon).

[Fragony]

How do you say idiotic in Dutch?

The only thing "wrong" with the Dutch military is the same thing that is wrong with most European militaries - it is too small and somewhat underfunded. They have fought bravely and performed very well in combat situations in Afghanistan.

It's neither, they have more than enough to play with. It's build with cooperation in mind how are we going to defend our hub anyway, that spot on the worldmap under the crumbs of your sandwich, that's us.

edit ah what he said. See them as an specialised unit, it's a trikeforce not a defensive army.

[PanzerJaeger]

I trust that you guys know more about the Dutch military than I. Probably explains their exemplary performance.

[Beskar]

The Spartans used to love the homosexuals in their armies, they even put them in the same unit. The idea being, they will fight harder because their partner is there, and if anything happened to their partner, they will fight even harder in the battle to revenge their death.

[Vladimir]

I don't remember seeing these guys in 300.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Colin and Justin can stay home.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Seriously though...These guys are awesome.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Spartans used to love the homosexuals in their armies, they even put them in the same unit. The idea being, they will fight harder because their partner is there, and if anything happened to their partner, they will fight even harder in the battle to revenge their death.

Actually, that was the Thebans, they beat the Spartans, and then the Macedonian farmboys rolled over them (litterally).

On topic: the density thing is a huge issue. Europe is overcrowded as is, that's part of why our birth-rate is falling; people know this. However, then you add in immigrants, increase the population, over-burden services.

There isn't a way to make that better, it just isn't going to happen.

Anyway, Meth, you're always going on about how dreadful white Canadians are to Native Americans, so multi-culturalism can't be working that well in canada either.

Unless that's a bunch of crud, which is it?

[Fragony]

Yep, going downhill, Sweden 2010

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/9485...n_restecp.html

Leftist people know that it is an enrichment to our culture, but I am not 100% sure if that is the truth.