Acropolis Now

**gaelic cowboy** · 05-18-2010, 21:41

I have a feeling that mad as it seems now but I think that in maybe 100yrs Ireland, Britain, France and Holland will end up being agri bread baskets for the for Asia and Mid East.

Maybe the kids should be doing agri-science and GM courses those bloody financiers cant outsource a field of Cork grass or a French orchard yet. There is probably still plenty of automation that can be put in the agri world there's robotic dairy farms, farm networks to track food and watch housed animals on web cams while the farmer works in part time job and tracks the intake and outputs in beef production on his iPhone it's all there.

Naturally this would be a shot in the dark for a major western country and the howls from the hedge funds would probably deafen you so you would get little investment due to long term payoff nature of the agri business but if you want summit solid then own land and plant some spuds.

Hell Greek debt crisis comes and society turns into a mad max hellhole anyone who can make it to mayo will be sound for a plate at the Cowboys house.

**Jolt** · 05-18-2010, 23:09

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

I have a feeling that mad as it seems now but I think that in maybe 100yrs Ireland, Britain, France and Holland will end up being agri bread baskets for the for Asia and Mid East.

Unless something drastically changes with European soil, I doubt very much. European soil isn't well suited for agriculture, which partly explains the low productivity of the European farmers in relation with other countries and the EU's ferocious protectionism of its agriculture.

**gaelic cowboy** · 05-18-2010, 23:45

Originally Posted by Jolt

Unless something drastically changes with European soil, I doubt very much. European soil isn't well suited for agriculture, which partly explains the low productivity of the European farmers in relation with other countries and the EU's ferocious protectionism of its agriculture.

Who said anything about growing anything in soil??????? And grass does not need huge fertility it's huge benefit in Europe is that it rains regular and that grass is cheap just ask NZ farmers. French products are mainly high value as Furunculus keeps telling us we need to move too and Holland has market gardening greenhouses etc and it would all be exported for cash because Europe is easily self sufficient many times over.

Your soil is easily treated and as I said there is still a vast amount of RnD and the like that can be do on this plus protectionism will be gone before the end of the century mark my words. Plus you focus on European soil when soil depletion and acidification and a multitude of other problems with soil are happening in America and Australia reducing land area but population is increasing and the more middle class the world becomes the more it will require to eat.

Europe has vast unused potential which is not explained by fertility it is more explained by low investment and high labour costs trust me just cos it might not produce four crops a year does not mean it wont be eaten. The people of the newer regions are growing bigger every day and they all want to eat and I am certain they will pay for it.

**Jolt** · 05-20-2010, 01:44

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Who said anything about growing anything in soil??????? And grass does not need huge fertility it's huge benefit in Europe is that it rains regular and that grass is cheap just ask NZ farmers.

EUSOILS reference to soils: "Agricultural soil is a precious and limited resource. Soil is the medium that enables us to grow our food[...] It is not an understatement to say that soil is one of the key issues on which agriculture is based and, thus, fundamental to the existence of human society."

It is not a matter of finding grass. There may be plentiful grass in mountainous areas, but you aren't going to plant much there.

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

French products are mainly high value as Furunculus keeps telling us we need to move too and Holland has market gardening greenhouses etc and it would all be exported for cash because Europe is easily self sufficient many times over.

Eh? What are you ranting on about? I didn't manage to catch anything on it.

First what does high added value products have to do with anything? Agricultural products are NOT high added value products in any way.

Second, large-scale agriculture (Required to become the breadbasket of anything - and you said of the world EDIT: Asia and Africa.), isn't done in greenhouse workshops. Sticking your agriculture to greenhouses isn't going to make you the bread-basket of anything.

I had to make an essay of the CAP for International Economic Relations. The rationale behind CAP is for Europe to be self-sustainable in agricultural products, and to protect domestic players from extra-EU competitors. Such a protection is needed due to many reasons, amongst those is the productivity of European agriculture, which is very significantly impacted by the inadequateness of the European soil. A notable example of why the overall productivity of European agriculture is suffering can be given by the fact that EU subsdies do not even try to respect or foment an economy of scale. Simply put, they are more concerned with making up for the lack productivity with subsidies, to make sure our farmers don't go out of work while the markets are flooded by cheaper Extra-EU agricultural products, thus even supporting the larger agricultural firms to make sure their Intra and Extra-EU quota stays high and they stay competitive globally.

Another clear example is the price floor (Minimum price) the EU imposes for imported Extra-EU agricultural products so these can only be sold with a cost inside the margin of cost for the European producers, so the (large) European producers can easily compete with imported products.

The true breadbaskets are the same suspects as usual. We cannot have the productivity of the Pampas region, the Gran Chaco region, the Prairie States of the US and Canada, Ukraine and the Chernozem corridor of Russia.

**Furunculus** · 05-20-2010, 08:30

Germany's move to ban short-selling gets more disgust heaped upon it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-the-euro.html

**gaelic cowboy** · 05-20-2010, 22:14

Originally Posted by Jolt

EUSOILS reference to soils: "Agricultural soil is a precious and limited resource. Soil is the medium that enables us to grow our food[...] It is not an understatement to say that soil is one of the key issues on which agriculture is based and, thus, fundamental to the existence of human society."

Of course it is my fault I used the term breadbasket which has connotations of some kind of massive Iowa style farm I am talking cattle here.

It is not a matter of finding grass. There may be plentiful grass in mountainous areas, but you aren't going to plant much there.

You don't plant in grass you bale and feed it to housed cattle and make beef or milk.

Eh? What are you ranting on about? I didn't manage to catch anything on it.

First what does high added value products have to do with anything? Agricultural products are NOT high added value products in any way.

Sorry its following on from earlier in the thread about the outsourcing of manufacturing from europe Furunculus keeps saying adapt or die that you must sell high value products and many agri products are finished to a very high quality in europe and sold for a big markup due to the luxury nature of the product in question thats what I meant by high value.

Second, large-scale agriculture (Required to become the breadbasket of anything - and you said of the world EDIT: Asia and Africa.), isn't done in greenhouse workshops. Sticking your agriculture to greenhouses isn't going to make you the bread-basket of anything.
The true breadbaskets are the same suspects as usual. We cannot have the productivity of the Pampas region, the Gran Chaco region, the Prairie States of the US and Canada, Ukraine and the Chernozem corridor of Russia.

Not all agri product that have high value require a field flowers are an example of products that will make big money. Ok so maybe not everything is grown in a greenhouse but I am talking in a generic sense about investment in all sorts of thing and greenhouses are one of those investmenst I also mentioned agri science gm crops and the use of robots etc etc.

I had to make an essay of the CAP for International Economic Relations. The rationale behind CAP is for Europe to be self-sustainable in agricultural products, and to protect domestic players from extra-EU competitors. Such a protection is needed due to many reasons, amongst those is the productivity of European agriculture, which is very significantly impacted by the inadequateness of the European soil. A notable example of why the overall productivity of European agriculture is suffering can be given by the fact that EU subsdies do not even try to respect or foment an economy of scale. Simply put, they are more concerned with making up for the lack productivity with subsidies, to make sure our farmers don't go out of work while the markets are flooded by cheaper Extra-EU agricultural products, thus even supporting the larger agricultural firms to make sure their Intra and Extra-EU quota stays high and they stay competitive globally.

Another clear example is the price floor (Minimum price) the EU imposes for imported Extra-EU agricultural products so these can only be sold with a cost inside the margin of cost for the European producers, so the (large) European producers can easily compete with imported products.

The true breadbaskets are the same suspects as usual. We cannot have the productivity of the Pampas region, the Gran Chaco region, the Prairie States of the US and Canada, Ukraine and the Chernozem corridor of Russia.

Remember this is just a thought experiment its not talking about today but the future in 2100 its just a thought on a possible future. I am well aware of the black soil in Ukraine but the foods in Europe are higher value Grapes which make wine pork which becomes parma ham I could go on and on. CAP is not the only thing that affect farmers in europe labour, energy, hygiene and quality standards etc etc these all add to the price.

In the idea the world would be richer and full of maybe 8-9billion people who will to be fed one region won't feed that many we will have to use more land ie more investent more use etc etc.

In short just to recap I was talking in a generic sense about a possible future that could be invested in to secure both manufacturing jobs processing jobs and production jobs and all the attendent services along with it too and many other skills in the wider economy by moving to big agri production. Look I understand its not really going to happen but hell stranger things have happened. Mainly this is not going to happen because the economy would have to reorient itself to achieve this senario however it would be more secure you cant outsource a field and be practically gauranteed a market with the rise of Asia.

**Furunculus** · 05-21-2010, 11:02

the euro, as we currently know it, is a finished:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...t-is-dead.html

interesting erad

**Fragony** · 05-21-2010, 11:25

Good read and good riddance. Benelux + Germany = win. What's the rest of Europe going to do about it if we hang them out to dry. We are Europe's engine we can do as we please.

**Meneldil** · 05-22-2010, 09:36

Down with their head I say. It's time the population stands up and invade the City.

The world will be a better place when the last banker will be hung with the last stock-trader's guts.

**Vladimir** · 05-22-2010, 15:06

Originally Posted by Meneldil

Down with their head I say. It's time the population stands up and invade the City.

The world will be a better place when the last banker will be hung with the last stock-trader's guts.

Hmm, this sounds somewhat familiar.

**gaelic cowboy** · 05-18-2010, 23:54

I think this is good I dunno at least they bought the bonds and expect to get paid back I suppose.

NTMA raises €1.5bn in bond sale

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Seeing as it a Greece thread then here is summit else from same paper.

Greece gets first installment of loans

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**gaelic cowboy** · 05-19-2010, 02:05

I cannot see this happening myself but sure we will see I suppose.

Lenihan says State will recoup Greek loan

In case any of you think you have a tough job Brian Lenihan is our minister for Finance and he also has cancer the poor fella hated and pitied at same time below is a statement from his personal website on it where outlines how he will soldier on.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

During the week before Christmas, I underwent tests in hospital which identified a blockage at the entrance to my pancreas. A stent was inserted and the pancreas is now functioning normally. Cancerous tissue has been identified in the material that has caused the blockage. My medical advice is that chemotherapeutic and radiotherapeutic treatment are required. I will begin the treatment later this week.

Notwithstanding this medical condition, I am feeling fit and well. Having discussed the matter with the Taoiseach and having consulted my medical advisers, it is my intention to continue to serve as Minister for Finance. I will not be accepting invitations for speaking engagements in the next few months. I will continue to fulfil the essential functions of my office. I will supervise the work of my Department and meet delegations relevant to this work. I will prepare for and attend Government meetings. I will make myself accountable to Dáil Éireann and carry out my parliamentary duties. I will convene and attend any meetings required for the implementation of Government policy. I will be available for media interviews about my work as Minister, as required. I will continue to represent the constituency of Dublin West to the best of my abilities.

The Government is determined to implement the plan for economic recovery set out in the last two Budgets. That plan has been endorsed by every member of the Government. With the full support of my colleagues I will continue to oversee its implementation.

I am well aware of the importance of the office I hold. My doctors have advised that I am fit to continue to fulfil my duties. If that position were to change in the course of my treatment, I would be the first to recognise it. At all times, I will act in the best interests of the country and in accordance with any medical advice received. I do not intend to issue any further statements about this matter.

I want to thank the very many well wishers who sent me messages of support following media reports of my illness. I have been overwhelmed by the goodwill shown to my family and myself from all sides. I am aware that many have remembered me in their thoughts and prayers. I thank them for it. I hope I can repay this goodwill by continuing to serve to the best of my ability as I undergo treatment for my medical condition.