Acropolis Now

[Furunculus]

The part where he insinuates France and Germany are almost at war again.

he didn't, he said that political convergence necessary to keep france and germany as the engine of european federalism is in danger of stalling as a result of different policy objectives over the euro crisis.

germany is being pragmatic and restricting economic governance to the Eurozone, thereby damaging the political ideal that everyone goes down the ever-deeper-union path together.

france is being idealogical and attempting to rope the whole EU into economic governance because they are afraid that an a-la-carte EU will destroy momentum for a federal union.

[Husar]

he didn't, he said that political convergence necessary to keep france and germany as the engine of european federalism is in danger of stalling as a result of different policy objectives over the euro crisis.

Oh yes, he did, he was obviously looking forward to us "going at it again" like we did in WW1, WW2 and the Franco-Prussian war etc. What you describe is the link he posted and used to build his guerretic-voyeurist propaganda on top of it.

[Furunculus]

Oh yes, he did, he was obviously looking forward to us "going at it again" like we did in WW1, WW2 and the Franco-Prussian war etc. What you describe is the link he posted and used to build his guerretic-voyeurist propaganda on top of it.

sorry, i thought you were responding to me.

[rory_20_uk]

he didn't, he said that political convergence necessary to keep france and germany as the engine of european federalism is in danger of stalling as a result of different policy objectives over the euro crisis.

germany is being pragmatic and restricting economic governance to the Eurozone, thereby damaging the political ideal that everyone goes down the ever-deeper-union path together.

france is being idealogical and attempting to rope the whole EU into economic governance because they are afraid that an a-la-carte EU will destroy momentum for a federal union.

France is not being idealistic as desperate to keep hold of German subsidies. If Germany stopped believing - and therowing money liberally to almost everyone else then France would have to sort out itself. France has been reliant on foreign support from at least 1939, and arguably since 1914.

[Vladimir]

France is not being idealistic as desperate to keep hold of German subsidies. If Germany stopped believing - and therowing money liberally to almost everyone else then France would have to sort out itself. France has been reliant on foreign support from at least 1939, and arguably since 1914.

Aren't we all?

[Louis VI the Fat]

France is not being idealistic as desperate to keep hold of German subsidies. If Germany stopped believing - and therowing money liberally to almost everyone else then France would have to sort out itself. France has been reliant on foreign support from at least 1939, and arguably since 1914.

What kind of tabloids do you read?


If you mean strategically - all countries except a hegemon rely on a balance of power and on alliances. Only during Louis XIV and the Revolutionary era did France not need alliances.

The kiddie version of history in the UK is that the silly continentals can't help misbehaving themselves, repeatedly start petty wars, which are then sorted out by Britain, which a most ungrateful continent is never thankful for. Reality is that Britain and its enormously overstretched empire, fully part of Europe, relied on a balance of power, the aggressive maintenace of which has always been Britain's policy.
For example, the UK did not fight in Flanders because the English like the French so much better than they like Germans. The British allied with France to stop Germany, the largest power of Europe, from its threat to topple Britain, in particular its fleet building policy. Britain did not save France, Britain saved its Empire, with Belgium coming in as a handy battlefield. In 1914, the Empire was defended to the last Frenchman, in 1940, it was defended to the last Russian. Both World Wars also showed Britain was not at all capable of defending its Empire on its own.

If you mean economically dependent - massive French financial, political and intellectual expenditure has been quite instrumental in maintaining and spreading democracy and stability in Europe, including the British Isles. As has been German desire to create a peaceful Europe, and a European Germany.

[gaelic cowboy]

Both World Wars also showed Britain was not at all capable of defending its Empire on its own.

I would agree with this entirely, after all every Totalwar game that has a British Isles in it the English are usually weaker and poorer than Europe. Safe behind a channel without fear of attack it can involve itself in wars on the mainland to disrupt any one nation dominating Europe

[Vladimir]

I would agree with this entirely, after all every Totalwar game that has a British Isles in it the English are usually weaker and poorer than Europe. Safe behind a channel without fear of attack it can involve itself in wars on the mainland to disrupt any one nation dominating Europe

And in every Total War game the British Isles are the perfect place to forge an unbeatable empire. Not a good comparison.

[gaelic cowboy]

And in every Total War game the British Isles are the perfect place to forge an unbeatable empire. Not a good comparison.

Wrong it's because it is disadvantaged that Britain is so strong, it 's a geopolitical reality that Britain must always prevent a single nation dominating Europe.

Once Europe is divided Britain can rest easy in the knowledge her empire will not be troubled.


This is real reason Britain is in the EU to my mind, Britain ensure's it does not get overly powerful and overshadow it. They can never hope to dominate it themselves but they must ensure that Germany and France also do not

[Vladimir]

Wrong it's because it is disadvantaged that Britain is so strong, it 's a geopolitical reality that Britain must always prevent a single nation dominating Europe.

Once Europe is divided Britain can rest easy in the knowledge her empire will not be troubled.


This is real reason Britain is in the EU to my mind, Britain ensure's it does not get overly powerful and overshadow it. They can never hope to dominate it themselves but they must ensure that Germany and France also do not

Wrong (let's just keep saying it back and forth)

But seriously, that's silly. You're saying they're strong because they're weak. What you mean to say is that Britain is easily defensible once it has naval superiority. Internal lines of communication give it the ability to respond quickly to invasion and the channel presents a logistical challenge to any would-be invader.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I would agree with this entirely, after all every Totalwar game that has a British Isles in it the English are usually weaker and poorer than Europe. Safe behind a channel without fear of attack it can involve itself in wars on the mainland to disrupt any one nation dominating Europe

And in every Total War game the British Isles are the perfect place to forge an unbeatable empire. Not a good comparison.

The two don't exclude the other. On the contrary...