Halberdiers

[gollum]

As you stated in the opening post, the halbs are not good for taking charges. I am not sure they can also be let loose against enemy infantry armored units, especially ap, armored infantry units; they have an attack of 1ap against infantry that is really poor and in my experience they often lose. Their advantage against cavalry is real however (ue to the +3/+1 anticav bonus) - provided that they are not chraged (because there is a very real danger they brake). Having a unit of pavise arbs/crossbows on hold position/formation and in loose formation stop an enemy cavalry charge and then bring the halbs in, will work. It is in my experience the only thing they can do, but not too many times, because they get tired and soon they are not able to do even that.

Dismounted CKs in vanilla can be switched between mounted and dismounted and although indeed expensive they are worth every penny they get - unlike imo the halberdiers.

[Prince Cobra]

As you stated in the opening post, the halbs are better not for taking charges. I am not sure is they can also be let against enemy armor units, especially ap, armored infantry units; they have an attack of 1ap against infantry that is really poor and in my experience they often lose. Their advantage against cavalry is real however - provided that they are not chraged (because there is a very real danger they brake). Having a unit of pavise arbs/crossbows on hold position/formation and in loose formration stop an enemy cavalry charge and then bring the halbs in will work. It is in my experience the only thing they can do, but not too many times, because they get tired and soon they are not able to do even that.

Dismounted CKs in vanilla canbe switched between mounted and dismounted and although expensive they are worth every penny they get - unlike imo the halberdiers.

To ruin the reputation of the halbs even more. In a certain battle, due to miscalculation how much I've been outnumbered, I was forced to send Byz cavalry and to stop a unit of Halbs. In order to give a chance of my cavalry army simultaneously used some Naptha to bombard the Halbs. It worked, though it was evertyhing a man should not do. In fact, the enemy army broke right there. But I presume I was lucky that day.

Do not tell me these Pavised poor souls have a chance against the GH cavalry... and until the slow halbs wrap around the cavalry... And not to forget that the GH cavalry tends to pull back and charge for a second time. Are you sure it will not make many wives unhappy (well, most of the wives; few may think of it as hitting the lottary...) ?

[caravel]

To ruin the reputation of the halbs even more. In a certain battle, due to miscalculation how much I've been outnumbered, I was forced to send Byz cavalry and to stop a unit of Halbs. In order to give a chance of my cavalry army simultaneously used some Naptha to bombard the Halbs. It worked, though it was evertyhing a man should not do. In fact, the enemy army broke right there. But I presume I was lucky that day.

Halbs are not good defenders vs cavalry, they're good attackers vs cavalry (but not head on). This is why attacking them with cavalry works well. Any infantry unit that is charged and routs due to poor morale is a sitting duck for cavalry anyway - but a heavily armoured, slow infantry unit with poor morale is quite simply good for nothing.

[gollum]

In fact the pavise halbs in hold formation/hold position can hold a charge Prince Cobra. If they are in loose formation the halbs (or other ap heavy infantry) can pass right through them and engage the MHC, while the arbs keep firing at them at point blank. This can be a useful tactic against the Horde: bring a single pavise unit and use it in loose formation at the front row - even after its ammo is off. They will attract all the ammo of the MHAs and MWs and also provide a usefull barrier between the MHC and the rest of the arbs that should be a bit further up the slope. Obviously they need protection from the MHC with heavy ap infantry and spears, in odrer not to be swamped or have too many casualties in melee.

[m52nickerson]

Perhaps Polish Halbs are better then most, but I charge cavaly head on with them all of the time in my campaigns. That includes heavys. Most of the time the cavalry routs after only a few moments. Yes the halbs take a few loses, but far far less then the cavs unit.

.....and yes Prince Cobra Pavised Arbs can hold up to a GH charge unitl the halbs engage. Not the best way to do it by far but it works.

From a battle with the GH in which I used my halbs.

how I lined up......

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

an early charge

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the halbs holding there own

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

....and again

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the final result

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My four unit of halbs killed 544 GH horses and lost 95 men out of 240 but never broke.

[gollum]

Your halbs have the silver armor upgrade, valor 2, and i dont know how much base morale (what church line buildings did the province you trained them in had?)

Without any additional morale, just by the valor, the halbs have +4 morale and +2/+2 att./def to their base stats. They take also another +3armor and +3defence from the armor upgrade. They also outnumber the cavalry because of the bridge situation and have their flanks covered because of the bridge situation. Not the best of examples.

[m52nickerson]

The halbs valor is from the general so not moral bonus. They were trained in a provence with a church and relquary. So that would be +3 morale. I agree that is it no the best example, but it was the one on hand. I use them simeratly in open field battles, to intercept any Cav that charge my lines.

.....and just so we are clear, I'm not claiming that out of tbe box halbs are going to do much. You do need to get them morale upgrades. Generals with + to morale also help.

[caravel]

What class of general were the AI fielding? I'm guessing a 0 star or very low. Also I can only see one valour pennon per unit and only in the forth screenshot down - in the other screenshots I cannot make out any pennons at all. Valour makes a huge difference and any such test must be carried out on a level field with equal valour and upgrade stats and 0 star generals on both sides. The bridge scenario also puts the attacker at a huge disadvantage.

The halbs valor is from the general so not moral bonus. They were trained in a provence with a church and relquary. So that would be +3 morale. I agree that is it no the best example, but it was the one on hand. I use them simeratly in open field battles, to intercept any Cav that charge my lines.

The units do get a morale bonus from the general, the bonus from the church and reliquary would also skew the results. Gonig by his personal on the field valour of 10, I would say your general could not have been less than a 5 star?