"Hegemony - Philip of Macedon" Game

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Hey Longjohn, I think I've seen you on the Longbow forums. :P I can't wait for further patches for Hegemony (got an annoyingly persistant crash up in the far eastern Danube area) and for future games from Longbow based on this engine and some of the gameplay concepts. The combat is quite abstracted (or contrived, if you're in a bad mood :P) but I don't think it's really much more abstract than TW games, really. The tactical fights are obviously much more simpler but there is a lot greater strategic depth to it.

I've really only been playing games recently to hold me over until I get more patches for this. I've fallen for it pretty bad. :P

[al Roumi]

I was able to apply the impulse patch which fixed the zerg AI shortly after my last post. It is a massive improvement in terms of preventing the whack-a-mole game play. Best of all, if you still want that kind of head ache, you can get it by playing on Hard, rather than Normal.

The fixed AI has not stopped AI raiding compeltely, and I'm glad it hasn't. More powerful or embittered enemies (Athenians, Illyrians, Phocians...) still raid your territory but I found the Bylazoran tribes (can't remember their name) much quieter. I think the enemy factios only attack if they have the numbers to do it -I certainly don't see so many single unit raids (if any).

Anyway, the change really unlocked me strategically and freed up troops which had otherwise been tied down on garrison/defensive duty to be more offensive. My personal strategy has been to try to keep a rolling frontier of consistent dimensions, creating a hard/fortified border with an un-fortified/ungarrissoned centre. This allows me to reallocate the forces from an "internal" city to the frontier. Sounds pretty simple really but force concentration is what it's all (and has always) been about.

Unfortunately this same dynamic which we've seen on TW games, where it can be fairly simple to pacify internal regions and focus troops on the borders, means that the game gets easier the larger you grow your empire (assuming you grow it appropriately, e.g. creating as much of an internal "safe" space as possible). As the game gets easier, the challenge decreases and so does the reward and enjoyment (unless you like winning easy fights).

The challenges faced in the mid/late game are when confronting rivals of similar size -factions who have also expanded or control similar concentrations of resources. I think/hope Longbow have written in enough of these large enemies to make my continued experience as fun as the beginning has been.

Or I could just start a new game on hard and go back to spitting teeth

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I definitely think the early bits are some of the strongest, both due to your relative weakness and the scripted objectives and unique rewards for completing objectives. I want more quests to give me unique units or make my Hypaspists unit bigger, not more gold. I'm swimming in gold! It's not enough of a reward any more.

If you want a real fun fight though, conquer through to Thebes without dealing with the surrounding Athenians. They were pouring our of Euboea and the surrounding lands and I had my hands full for a straight half hour. Then my game crashed, and I had saved 30 minutes prior. :( But then I started the game over! :D

[al Roumi]

I've taken half the Epiric (is that how it's said?) lands, going to finish them off. Then it'll be Methone's turn. I'm not sure whether to open a second front with the Chalcideans at the same time... I may have the resources/units for it now, but I think the first few cities will take some fighting to claim as the Chalcideans will have a fair few troops.

I still don't have triremes although Bylazoran tribal cavalry are great!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

In my current (on hold) playthrough I blitzed Methone, Pydna, and Dion immediately after securing a border with the Illyrians. It's saved me a lot of frustration with Athenian raids.

[Longjohn4]

If I started again, I'd deal with Methone and Pydna early too. In my current game I got beaten up badly in first attempt at them, and left them alone for a while, but that was early on before I figured out how much catapults help.
They're still raiding a bit in the Chalcidike, and now that I've taken Thessaly I see their big stacks in Euboia, I know that once the winter is over, I'm going to raided big time. I think a few units of Thessalian cavalry will deal with them though.

I have a little cleaning up to do in Illyria and Thrace, and then it'll be time to attend to religous duties, and start the Sacred War. After that maybe I'll take your tip, and deal with Euboia before going after Thebes

[al Roumi]

I dealt with Methone and Pydna after securing Larissa and the northern/inland cities of the tyrants of Pherae. Most of my force moved up via Dion and then on to Pydna and Methone. I had more mercenary Hoplites by then and the forces I had in the Macedonian cities south west of Pella were garrison troops, so i had more strength based around Larissa.

That's also something else I was slow to learn, Macedonian "national" cities don't need garrisons if they are walled, although they may need defensive forces to counter raids. At the begininning of the game I thought every city would need (or would be wise to have) a garrison of spearmen, whereas I now realise that unless the city is on the border/shore, it won't need a defensive garrison. I had been eating up my macedonian manpower with units with poor combat capability (spearmen), I've since culled many of these spearmen units and replaced them with Phalangites -much more useful in combat!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Quite. Also, walls cost 2 manpower of the culture the city is. So walls on a Macedonian city cost 2 Macedonian manpower, and walls on a non-Macedonian city cost 2 mercenary manpower. I don't think the game ever lays it out for you but they posted it on their forums and it's true in game. So if you need more phalangites just go Mr. Gorbachev all over the place. Cities without walls will never rebel, regardless of the culture.

[al Roumi]

Also, walls cost 2 manpower of the culture the city is.

I did not know that... Thanks ATPG!

moar Phalangites...

Watch out Athens, Philip's gonna get ya!

[Meneldil]

I played it finally, and tbh, I thought the game has great potential but fails to deliver.

The battles just plain blow. I didn't expect them to be of MTW quality, but seriously? Units that break formations as soon as they start fighting? Useless archers and skirmishers? A bunch of companions who rush straight into a squad of Hoplite and rout them without taking any casualty? Units that don't answer to threat and will let the city they garrison be taken by the ennemy without even fighting?
The sieges are horrid, even when you stack a bunch of catapults. It's slow, long, boring. We're in 2010, units shouldn't hit a city's wall in order to capture it anymore.

No diplomacy? In a wargame? Who got this wonderful idea, pray tell? As if Philip didn't try to ally and establish links with the surrounding people.

A bunch of MMORPG-like quests? Invisible walls that prevent you from attacking an area before you've completed one quest? I'm not playing Warcraft3 but a 4X wargame. Why can Athens attack me while I'm can't fight back until I defeat the Illyrians?

It's too bad, cause the game really had some nice ideas, especially the whole food gestion part.

[al Roumi]

This are mostly fair points, although its clear you've only played the demo - there are no artificial barriers to your expansion in the full game.

I'm not sure you've learned how to use the units properly either, not much stands up to head on melee with hoplites except other hoplites or Phalangites (who win). Archers and Peltasts are great and very effective when deployed behind/to the side of a line of battle. Cavalry charges in the side/rear of engaged units are also effective.

I completely agree on the diplomacy point, although at least in the current build your neighbours do not attack you as default behaviour -you usually have to provoke them.

[Meneldil]

I played the full game, though the wall south of Macedonia disappeared at the end of the tutorial. Fair point. My mistake if there is no other of those.

I've learnt to use the units: you need phalangites, catapults and companions and can wtfpwn everything. Even when considering the different population costs, the archers and spearmen aren't worth it. Companions can defeat pretty much everything head to head. Spearmen, hoplites, they all die in seconds, even when charged from the front. Maybe it's different if you play the hardest difficulty, but in normal, my Companions win battles by themselves.
Even all that isn't that bad, you can defeat the AI in most Total Wars by stacking a single kind of unit. But overall, the battles feel pretty arcade. Saddly.

It might sound like I'm really hating the game. I actually had a lot of fun playing it, but the weak points appear pretty quickly and they kind of ruin the game for me. But it has a great potential, if they make a new version or patch it up, I'll probably go back to it.

[Longjohn4]

The companions are a little uber, but you do only get one unit of them, so once you start fighting on several fronts they don't unbalance the game. The battles are a bit arcadey, but they do encourage combined arms, and integrate nicely into the campaign game.

More detailed sieges and diplomacy would be nice, but I don't really miss them. The game is a great new way to do historical games, so you have to cut them some slack and accept that not every feature can be in the first version.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The companions are a little uber, but you do only get one unit of them, so once you start fighting on several fronts they don't unbalance the game. The battles are a bit arcadey, but they do encourage combined arms, and integrate nicely into the campaign game.

More detailed sieges and diplomacy would be nice, but I don't really miss them. The game is a great new way to do historical games, so you have to cut them some slack and accept that not every feature can be in the first version.

Quite. I don't think I've ever seen the objectives thing done that way before, and I'm hoping they'll expand it for their next games while refining things like combat.

[Martok]

[Martok prepares his dark magic, recites the proper incantations, and casts Minor Necromancy]




Longbow has announced their new expansion Hegemony Gold: Wars of Ancient Greece. This is especially good news for existing owners, as it will be free for those who've already purchased the game. It looks like it's going to add a ton of new stuff, including the following features:

* Two New Scenarios Based on the Peloponnesian War (Coming Soon)

* Sandbox Mode: Play as any faction on the map without objectives. (More factions coming soon).

* Dynamic Diplomacy System: Make truces and alliances between factions in the new diplomacy window.

* Revolt Tweaks: Rather than being able to eliminate revolts by tearing down walls, it now just greatly reduces the garrison needed to prevent revolts. As before, the size of the garrison is also tied to the faction's hostility but now that hostility is dynamic don't be too hasty to break an alliance because it could mean you need more revolts.

* New Population System: The global population system has been replaced with a pool of recruits local to each city that are used to build units and replace troops that are killed in battle. Units no longer recruit in the field but draw recruits from their home city when they are in resupply range of a friendly building and there is an open supply route back to their home city.

* Cavalry Charge: Cavalry now receive a combat bonus against light infantry when they can run into combat.

* Flanking Bonus: Units now receive a significant morale penalty if simultaneously attacked from opposite directions.

* Camping/Foraging: Rather than reduce food consumption, camping now produces a small amount of food so that units with high logistics can potentially recharge their food supplies in the field.

* Close to Home Bonus: Units fighting within their home city's resupply range no longer receive morale penalties and can fight to the death.

* Supply Line Upgrades: Longer supply lines can now be upgraded at a cost to act like shorter supply lines and transfer more food per week.

* Unit Stat Adjustments: Unit siege strength has been reduced to make it harder to siege well supplied cities without catapults and phalangites have been made more defensive in order to hold enemies in combat while cavalry flank and charge.

For me, I think Hegemony just went from, "I might purchase it at some point" to, "OMG I need to get this into my grubby little paws ASAP!" The addition of diplomacy and sandbox mode address the two main things that were holding me back on getting this before; now, it's almost certainly a "must-buy". (Yeah, I still wish it was turn-based and not real-time, but hey, you can't have everything.) Unless the new diplomatic system turns out to be utter rubbish, this is definitely going on my "List".

[al Roumi]

There has recently been an update too -although I've no idea what it specificaly updates (it's been available for the last few weeks on Impulse). Thanks for the scoop Martok, you are right that this should make the game much more attractive and replayable.

[Meneldil]

Yep, I can see how that'd greatly improve the original game. I might even pick it up on Impulse now.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'm really excited about this since I'll get it for free! Might even be enough to drag me away from Civ V and Minecraft.

[Beskar]

I got $30 left, and this game is $31.25

Damn Stardock, use rounded figures!

[Beskar]

Game is now $16.26, but it comes out on Steam tomorrow. I will go for the cheapest version.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

At that price even the very first versions would be a must-buy and it's currently in a much better (and frequently improving) state.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It's €17.95 in GamersGate currently.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Bought it. It's downloading as we speak.

Will let you folks know what I think about it.
.

[Beskar]

I played a bit, but I am having a serious whack-a-mole problem.

Simply put, I don't have the population to maintain enough separate small forces to protect my border. This gets even more pressuring as the game keeps on saying "Invade this bit, invade this bit!"

I am not too far in the game, but Athens keep using Naval strike forces to keep dropping stuff off and attacking my capital. The country in the south (they are red), keep sending up forces to the North. Then there is teal (surrounding West, and North) who keep sending in units. There there is another in the North East, which keeps harassing my border.

[al Roumi]

I played a bit, but I am having a serious whack-a-mole problem.

Simply put, I don't have the population to maintain enough separate small forces to protect my border. This gets even more pressuring as the game keeps on saying "Invade this bit, invade this bit!"

I am not too far in the game, but Athens keep using Naval strike forces to keep dropping stuff off and attacking my capital. The country in the south (they are red), keep sending up forces to the North. Then there is teal (surrounding West, and North) who keep sending in units. There there is another in the North East, which keeps harassing my border.

What difficulty are you playing on? This was certainly a problem in the early versions of the game but was "fixed" in a patch if you played on normal difficulty. I haven't played the latest patched versiona t all, so my experiences and advice may be a bit dated.

The Athenians will bug you throughout, especially around your starting city, until you clear out their 3 cities (Methone I think is one), immediately to the to the south/South-east of your starting city. The Illyrians keep up the pressure too (on your west flank), although I remember them being green? The states to the East of the Macedonian capital didn't attack me unless I did them. My tactic with the Illyrians and northern tribes was to take their cities in phases, pushing the frontier out and enabling you to keep a pacified (non-walled, non-garrisoned core of cities.

Unless the logisitics/population mechanisms have changed, this allows you to focus your troops -which is what you'll need to do to beat anyone or take a city. It can definitely be a gamble timing the early offensives, but always strike raiding enemies when their morale falters (usually due to supplies), and try to keep your farms! I'd also try to avoid recruiting spearmen, they are not good for anything but supportive flank attacks or garrison duty. I had a bunch in my cities defending against the athenian naval raids and they had pretty bad results each time. Hoplites, or even better phalangites, are much much better at fighting

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Exterminate the Illyrians and/or the Athenian cities immediately to your southeast. For the Illyrians, at least liberate all the Illyrian-held Macedonian cities and then do any missions that changes an Illyrian city to a Macedonian city culture-wise (I think there's just one). That should put the hurt on them, though they will probably occasionally still raid you. It might also be worth subduing the Paeonians (grey guys to the north) because their cavalry units that you can recruit as mercenaries are sick. Use them to garrison borders you want left alone, and occassionally use them to steamroll skirmisher raids.

If you haven't done so already deal with the nearest Athenians then head east to liberate Macedonian cities from the Chalcidean league (but put off finishing them off if you can; going beyond the non-Macedonian cities can quickly bog you down because they have few farms and an Athenian stronghold in the middle).

[Blxz]

Thought I would bump this thread. The game is good and getting better. The new 'Gold' version is currently in beta (totally workable though) and is free for anyone who has already bought the first one. Diplomacy is in, AI spam attacks are fixed, manpower is fixed, crushing a faction wthout wiping them out will mostly take care of them (which is good) and sandbox mode is useable so you can play as any faction you want.

The scale of the game is incredible. I had a game as Sparta and thought "wow my empire is huge" then I zoomed out and thought "bugger, only control half the peloponnese". My current Macedon game has been going for 12 hours and I've only got a thin empire stretching across from Epirus over east of Pella down the Chalcidice region.

Worthwhile for anyone who has played this before and got fed up with its old issues and for anyone into wargames.

[Ca Putt]

good that you remind me, I've gotta get that game as soon as my main PC is connected to the Internetz

[Sdragon]

Thanks for this! I watched this game during it's development but I lost track of it and couldn't remember it's name.

[Blxz]

Glad to be of service to you both =)