Do you think there are aliens?

[Kadagar_AV]

Why would aliens watch us? Why would aliens have eyes? Eyes are a very earthy thing in my opinion.

Lets just remember that if life exists elsewhere, its evolutionary course will be completely independent of ours. The likelihood is that this other life, be it intelligent or not, would be so (dare I say) alien that we would have difficulty recognising it as intelligent. Why, perhaps in some resource rich planet movement was not necessary for survival, and these aliens have developed no natural way to move around. Naturally such aliens would have no interest in exploration, let alone in building spaceships... When we encounter these super intelligent aliens, we will probably mistake them for some kind of primeval sludge, scoop up a handful of individuals (perhaps literally) and make a new type of glue out of them.

But does other life exist at all? Most people seem content to say "The universe is really big/infinite therefore the chances are pretty high", but if the universe isn't infinite, then there's no justification to this argument at all. We have no idea about the number of stars in the universe, nor do we have any idea what the probability of those stars supporting life is (our current sample is way too limited). The probability of life could just as easily be negligible compared to the number of stars.

Have you actually read up on the topic? I dont say this as a flame, just that some of your points are very much covered. Wiki the drake equation and take it from there :)

[Reenk Roink]

2. If there is one life form that makes it through, they are bound to be good. If they had not mastered their evil side, they would probably have killed themselves since long. I mean, look at us. We are a neutral as can be as a race. We can do sooo much good, and sooo much bad. However, we turn more and more towards good as a race. babysteps, sure, but we are still extremely young as a species.

The argument that technologically advanced alien lifeforms would be good because otherwise they'd have destroyed themselves seems very weak to me, as shown by what technologically advanced humans have done to not so technologically advanced humans in the past...

[Kadagar_AV]

The argument that technologically advanced alien lifeforms would be good because otherwise they'd have destroyed themselves seems very weak to me, as shown by what technologically advanced humans have done to not so technologically advanced humans in the past...

well, only a couple of hundred years ago, a drop in the ocean concerning universal time, we thought it natural to enslave others among our species and to kill off animals bordering to extinction.

Today, all over the world, slavery is frowned upon to say the least, and wild life preservations are all over the place, much funded by the average citizen. We are not born to be good, but generation by generation we are getting closer. Evolve that over some million years...

EDIT: I used these 2 examples as they mimic aliens stumbling upon us, or us stumbling upon aliens. If WE did, do you think we would send nukes, or try to make contact and learn from them?

[miotas]

it is imo conceited to believe that aliens are watching us. why us of all people? its ridiculous.

Well, there are always human scientists who research really obscure things that seem to have no possible use, maybe everyone back on planet zog is rolling their eyes at the weird scientist off at the other end of the galaxy researching these strange semi-intelligent creatures called humans.

EDIT
Or maybe we are being conceited, maybe they are coming to study our wildlife, or geographical formations, and we think they're here to see us.

[Reenk Roink]

well, only a couple of hundred years ago, a drop in the ocean concerning universal time, we thought it natural to enslave others among our species and to kill off animals bordering to extinction.

Today, all over the world, slavery is frowned upon to say the least, and wild life preservations are all over the place, much funded by the average citizen. We are not born to be good, but generation by generation we are getting closer. Evolve that over some million years...

EDIT: I used these 2 examples as they mimic aliens stumbling upon us, or us stumbling upon aliens. If WE did, do you think we would send nukes, or try to make contact and learn from them?

By the same token, we continue to spend a ton of money on military to ensure/aim for our dominance over the rest of the world. The last 100 years is by far the most violent in our history. Sure it has slowed down because of the superpowers have dwindled to two and later one, but the peace seems only kept as long as the status quo is kept.

There's almost no question in my mind that we'd exploit them BAD if we were stronger.

[Shaka_Khan]

I think outer space is so vast that there is a huge possibility that among the various aliens out there, there could be ones who look like us.

[Myrddraal]

My post was a bit cocky, but it's true nonetheless. I'll admit I haven't read of the Drake equation more than casually but... the equation is all well and good, but what is Fl? We can't even estimate its order of magnitude, so the Drake equation doesn't tell us very much about the likelihood of finding life out there without making some whopping assumptions.

EDIT:

Read the wiki, from the criticism section:

Criticism of the Drake equation follows mostly from the observation that several terms in the equation are largely or entirely based on conjecture. Thus the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions of any kind. As T.J. Nelson states:[19]
The Drake equation consists of a large number of probabilities multiplied together. Since each factor is guaranteed to be somewhere between 0 and 1, the result is also guaranteed to be a reasonable-looking number between 0 and 1. Unfortunately, all the probabilities are completely unknown, making the result worse than useless

Sounds about right to me.

[Skullheadhq]

there could be ones who look like us.

Let's hope for the aliens that that isn't true.

[Wishazu]

I voted yes with a sense of hope rather than 100% conviction that "they" are out there. I think the Universe would just be so much more interesting if it is populated with more intelligent life other than ourselves.

I do believe however, that any Aliens we meet will most likely be machines. Most likely the civilisation itself will be more of a machine one than a biological one. I also think that convergence between ourselves and our technology is going to happen. With regards to exploring space at least, it would solve alot of the issues plaguing purely human space travel.

[rotorgun]

I believe our own history and myths point to the possibility that the Earth was visited quite regularly by extraterrestrials. The Sumerian accounts of the Anunaki, some interesting Biblical verses, many of the earliest oral accounts of stone age primitive cultures offer some tantalizing hints of possible "close encounters" with off-worlders. With so many planets in the vastness of our universe, how arrogant for the human race to ponder any other possibility. It's like an ant in some isolated place on earth thinking his is the only colony of ants that exists.

As to why we haven't any direct proof of contacts in recent history, I can't say. Perhaps when our wisdom catches up with our technology to destroy, or surpasses it, then such beings will reveal themselves. I say "..seek out new civilizations, and boldly go....etc."

[Kadagar_AV]

I voted yes with a sense of hope rather than 100% conviction that "they" are out there. I think the Universe would just be so much more interesting if it is populated with more intelligent life other than ourselves.

I do believe however, that any Aliens we meet will most likely be machines. Most likely the civilisation itself will be more of a machine one than a biological one. I also think that convergence between ourselves and our technology is going to happen. With regards to exploring space at least, it would solve alot of the issues plaguing purely human space travel.

If we limit ourselves to science as is now, the possibilities of bio-engineering far surpasses that of mechanical engineering. But then, at that level, it would be hard to separate one from the other.

[Banquo's Ghost]

My post was a bit cocky, but it's true nonetheless. I'll admit I haven't read of the Drake equation more than casually but... the equation is all well and good, but what is Fl? We can't even estimate its order of magnitude, so the Drake equation doesn't tell us very much about the likelihood of finding life out there without making some whopping assumptions.

One of the biggest assumptions made in these debates (and integral to the Drake equation) is that the evolution of life is a linear process and naturally proceeds from simple to complex.

This is not borne out by observation.

The evolution of life on our own planet indicates that single-celled life is very likely to evolve on any planet with the right conditions (which in themselves are rare enough). However, the sequence of catastrophic events that happened in just the right sequence to produce the bursts to multi-cellular life and then further jump-start evolution towards a human intelligence are so extraordinary, and so mathematically unlikely to fall in the same sequence anywhere else, that there is a very strong argument that we are the only intelligent life in the universe (which is not remotely infinite).

Think of that responsibility. It's us and ooze.

[A Nerd]

Perhaps we should look in parallel galaxies or dimensions then...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Perhaps we should look in parallel galaxies or dimensions then...

Or on that rotting fish in my fridge which I can't be bothered to throw away. A parallel universive with its own evolutionary processes it's become.

Eat that, Drake.

[rotorgun]

Al Gore is living proof of procreation between human and alien; he was born 9 months after the crash of the UFO at Roswell, New Mexico. I mean behold the man! What more proof do we need!

[Myrddraal]

The evolution of life on our own planet indicates that single-celled life is very likely to evolve on any planet with the right conditions (which in themselves are rare enough).

Does it even indicate that much? If I remember correctly, isn't it proven that all life on earth has a single common ancestor? So we have one cell appears on one planet. Statistically it's hardly a large enough sample to make any deductions about it happening elsewhere.

EDIT:
Having said that I also seem to remember reading something about bacteria on Mars, though I can't remember the details.

[A Nerd]

To think that we are the best and brightest in the universe based on an opinion that scientific and statistical cirumstance are so slight is somewhat self-inflating in my opinion. It borders on certain religious superiority thinking in my opinion. Chances can be repeated, epecially when coupled with the time-line of infinity. To think that the occurances on Earth are completely unique to equate to thinking that every star, compositon, effects, life/death were completly unique as well. Appearances might vary, perhaps even intelligence and how its used, but the willingness to use it and it's application (especially at the top of the food chain) are not and will yeild a rather predictable result.
Parallel universers/dimensions may be possible if one considers the universe to be flat. What might lie above and below it? Surely that increases the slight chance of intelligence recognizable to our own to exist some where. Couple that with other above and belows to other universes on the same plane as our own to infinity, the chances are quite, well, infinate.
I don't know much about string theroy (other that what I saw on the discovery channel), but it does open up the possibilities if you believe it and it's true.

[LittleGrizzly]

It boils down to the ability of inteligent life to evolve, Earth has the best conditions of any planet we know and even if we only consider the timeframe there has been life on earth intelligent life has not been around for much of it. Even once it takes hold and starts to develop one big enough aestroid, a world war or any number of things can wipe it out completely before it can escape any planetry disasters. Even ignoring all those problems civilisations can hold themselves back for all kinds of political, religious, economic or any other number or reasons. I consider this combined with the rareness of Earth like planets to mean intelligent life is rare, though due to the huge amount of planets that are out there and the potential infinite number there could be I think there must be intelligent life just it is spread very thinly and reaching one another would require very advanced technology and willingness to use it to find intelligent life (going with my spread thinly theory I think accidently finding is unlikely, although not impossible)

[Scienter]

I think there are other forms of life out there. But, I don't have my tin foil hat ready. If there are "advanced" alien races out there, they aren't interested in us. I don't think that people on earth see UFOs. If an alien race is advanced enough to travel to earth, they're smart enough to observe us without being detected. I'd be happy if we meet an alien bacteria on Mars.

[A Nerd]

I don't have my tin foil hat ready

This might be the best way to meet and get to know them. Old fashioned mind wave transfer.

[Viking]

I consider this combined with the rareness of Earth like planets to mean intelligent life is rare, though due to the huge amount of planets that are out there and the potential infinite number there could be I think there must be intelligent life just it is spread very thinly and reaching one another would require very advanced technology and willingness to use it to find intelligent life (going with my spread thinly theory I think accidently finding is unlikely, although not impossible)

Some suggest that Earth-like planets are common. At this point we guess much and know little.

[Ja'chyra]

Thinking that we are the only intelligent, and that is debatable, life in the universe is only exceeded in it's ignorance and arrogance by thinking that because we don't know how to do something that it can't be done i.e. faster than light travel.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Thinking that we are the only intelligent, and that is debatable, life in the universe is only exceeded in it's ignorance and arrogance by thinking that because we don't know how to do something that it can't be done i.e. faster than light travel.

That position in itself, is pretty unbending.

It is not ignorant or arrogant to explore a hypothesis and consider what it might mean. Given that it's the hypothesis for which we have the most direct evidence to date, it's even more worthy of consideration.

[Ja'chyra]

That position in itself, is pretty unbending.

It is not ignorant or arrogant to explore a hypothesis and consider what it might mean. Given that it's the hypothesis for which we have the most direct evidence to date, it's even more worthy of consideration.

Very true, but a lot of people simply believe what we think we know as the truth, there's quite a bit of that in this thread already. Consideration and debate is a good thing, absolutes, especially in negatives, aren't.

That being said, I was being a bit too harsh when I shouldn't have been so I apologise.

[Moros]

I think yes.




Now tell me chances are slim extraterrestrial life doesn't exist.