What of the nation state?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I guess this is a very big topic and a lot of it will be speculation, but nonetheless...

What is the future of the nation state? Is it the final point in a strict process of increasing centralisation, with the relatively homogenous populations of the nation state being the foundations for a well functioning state?

Combined with neoliberalism and the collapse of ideologies that were global in their outlook like imperialism or communism, are we really at the 'end of history' as Fukuyama put it?

Or will the development of multi-level governance herald the end of the nation state? I think we are seeing this already. The high point of the nation state was with the totaliatarianism of the mid-20th century, ever since then it has been in decline. There are external factors, like multinational organisations, most obviously the EU. But also internal. For example, in the UK the erosion of the welfare state has left a much less centralised government.

And now the UK itself is breaking up with devolution, and the EU offers an alternative form of independence for Scottish and Welsh nationalists. These small states wouldn't be the traditional sovereign nation state, but of course be heavily intertwined in the European framework.

This EU isn't unique in this though. In Canada, the Quebecers look to NAFTA to make an independence Quebec viable, complementing their nation building at the regional level.

It almost like with all these different layers of government (local, regional, national, continental, global), we are returning to a situation more like the Middle Ages, where you had the local nobles/town, then the duke/county/whatever, then the kingdom, then things like the HRE or the Papacy. The 20th century model with everything being run from the nation's capital certainly seems to be disappearing.

Any thoughts?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I guess this is a very big topic and a lot of it will be speculation, but nonetheless...

What is the future of the nation state? Is it the final point in a strict process of increasing centralisation, with the relatively homogenous populations of the nation state being the foundations for a well functioning state?

Combined with neoliberalism and the collapse of ideologies that were global in their outlook like imperialism or communism, are we really at the 'end of history' as Fukuyama put it?

Or will the development of multi-level governance herald the end of the nation state? I think we are seeing this already. The high point of the nation state was with the totaliatarianism of the mid-20th century, ever since then it has been in decline. There are external factors, like multinational organisations, most obviously the EU. But also internal. For example, in the UK the erosion of the welfare state has left a much less centralised government.

And now the UK itself is breaking up with devolution, and the EU offers an alternative form of independence for Scottish and Welsh nationalists. These small states wouldn't be the traditional sovereign nation state, but of course be heavily intertwined in the European framework.

This EU isn't unique in this though. In Canada, the Quebecers look to NAFTA to make an independence Quebec viable, complementing their nation building at the regional level.

It almost like with all these different layers of government (local, regional, national, continental, global), we are returning to a situation more like the Middle Ages, where you had the local nobles/town, then the duke/county/whatever, then the kingdom, then things like the HRE or the Papacy. The 20th century model with everything being run from the nation's capital certainly seems to be disappearing.

Any thoughts?

Global Papist plot?

[Beskar]

It almost like with all these different layers of government (local, regional, national, continental, global), we are returning to a situation more like the Middle Ages, where you had the local nobles/town, then the duke/county/whatever, then the kingdom, then things like the HRE or the Papacy. The 20th century model with everything being run from the nation's capital certainly seems to be disappearing.

Wrong imagery.

United Global Federation yes, akin to USA on Mass Scale. Middle Ages? Completely different. Chalk and Cheese.

[Centurion1]

United Global Federation yes, akin to USA on Mass Scale. Middle Ages? Completely different. Chalk and Cheese.

more like apples and oranges, they are both fruit, yes. but their the similarities end.

Rhy let me tell you know what is ending the capital run nation state. MAD and nuclear weapons. the kind of warfare that was prevalent in that era and created the nationalism that is now dissapearing but was the glue that help these sorts of governments and regions together has completely dissapeared. As mass warfare has dissapeared with the nuclear weapon so too has radical nationalism

[Megas Methuselah]

I like to think my reserve is a nation-state.

[Centurion1]

I like to think my reserve is a nation-state.

hey i watched last of the mohican a couple hours ago it realy helped me understand you and your people

i really respect your opinion and your semi sovereignty.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

seriously dont unload on me it was a joke megas *cringes*

native americans (i dont know about canada) enjoy a form of sovreignity as well very complex legally but i know it involves the ability to have casinos *stereotypical, yes but a good example* and ignore certain laws (probably state, i believe they answer only to the federal government but dont quote me)

though from what i know of life on american reservations i question how much of these "benefits" are a good thing

[Rhyfelwyr]

Global Papist plot?

Oh come on I managed to resist, gimme a break!

Wrong imagery.

United Global Federation yes, akin to USA on Mass Scale. Middle Ages? Completely different. Chalk and Cheese.

I'm not so sure. I think this may be your idealism getting the better of you here. My point is that while the nation state might be on the decline, this doesn't appear to be due to the centralisation to a more global level that you might expect.

A lot of actors now cross state borders, such as big business etc, and this fact appears to reduce the sovereignty of any state.

The nation states are increasingly interconnected, but we are not seeing a straightforward path of centralisation. Instead of all the power going from London to Brussels, instead there will be new, small power centres at Edinburgh, Cardiff, wherever etc.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh come on I managed to resist, gimme a break!

Yea have ben seduced by thae Pappists!

He's a Pappist! Get the irons!

Banquo: I do have a contribution, but it's too late a night to do anything other than cheap sectarian jokes.

[Centurion1]

Hence we would have to order our society differently and seeing as there would be a world government in place this process would have started or be in place. If your running the world then you need to allocate resources responsibly the innovation comes by using education and technology to improve our use of resources to prevent collapse of the system. It is too simple to say innovation will disappear because we do not fear being attacked anymore there will still be lots of problems which need fixing even then

but in such a society there would be a pervasive maintain the status quo mindset fort he government and many individuals.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Yea have ben seduced by thae Pappists!

He's a Pappist! Get the irons!

Banquo: I do have a contribution, but it's too late a night to do anything other than cheap sectarian jokes.

Hey, don't complain to me, it's Seamus who will be gunning for you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And now you have given me a chance to tell an amusing cheap sectarian anecdote.

I once had the honour to escort a young lady of high birth and cheekbones but limited intellect on a date whereby we found ourselves watching a Civil War re-enactment at a friend's estate. (Yes, I know how to show a lady a good time). There was cannon fire and general to-and-froing, which seemed to captivate the delicious creature. Cavaliers bellowed deprecations on the size and shape of Cromwell's dangly bits, whilst the altogether more sober Parliamentarians contented themselves with cries of "No Popery".

Her delicate brow furrowed as she struggled with some momentous divination, before turning to our small crowd and asking, sweetly doe-eyed: "Those Parliament fellows: Why do they hate dried flowers?"