Question about early roman formations

[irelandeb]

What formation was typically used by the roman army of the camillan era?

Also, about the Roman army of the polybian era, I know they used the the checkerboard quincunx formation, but how many maniples made up each "block" of the formation? Was it just one, or would a number of them be put in the same square? I've never seen any diagrams with formations 10 blocks across.

[Maeran]

Yes, 1 maniple would have formed each square. This is 2 centuries (60 men each, so 120 in all) and 10 maniples of each class for a legion. Often, the army in this period would be a consular force, so there would be 2 legions side by side, with allies flanking that. There's a diagram of that description in Adrian Goldsworthy's Complete Roman Army. There are probably plenty of other good ones too, I expect.

As for the Camillan legion. I haven't seen a diagram lately, but Livy describes the front to back arrangement as given in the EB unit descriptions: Hastati, Principes, Triarii, Rorarii, Accensi. Can't remember where he puts the Leves. Probably at the back where the other 'low rating' classes are. Since the Romans fought as a hoplite phalanx until Camillus' day, and apparently picked up manipular tactics from the Samnites, then I'd expect the armies of the 4th century BC to evolve from a solid line to something like the Polybian quincunx over the Samnite wars, which had just ended shortly before the EB period begins. As it is, the whole change from phalanx to Camillan, to Polybian to Marian armies was probably really a slow evolution over time that no Roman would have spotted.

[G. Septimus]

Yes, 1 maniple would have formed each square. This is 2 centuries (60 men each, so 120 in all) and 10 maniples of each class for a legion. Often, the army in this period would be a consular force, so there would be 2 legions side by side, with allies flanking that. There's a diagram of that description in Adrian Goldsworthy's Complete Roman Army. There are probably plenty of other good ones too, I expect.

isn't it supposd to be 80? It was called a Century for something

[Maeran]

I have seen notional numbers for a maniple at 160 men (i.e. 80 men per century), but Goldsworthy only gives 60 men (which might be a hastati maniple, not a principe one). Going back to Polybius, he tells us that both each legion has 1200 (or more if they can get them) of both hastati and principes, and always 600 Triarii. If a maniple is two centuries, and a century is 80 men, we can only field 15 centuries or 7 and a half maniples of each class.

My suggestion would be that the other members of the century are officers, velites and perhaps some non-combatant attendants.

[irelandeb]

In what we call the camillan organisation each maplie of hastati had about 20 Leves attached.
later every single maniple in the legion had 20-40 velites attached.

60 hastati + 20 leves = 80

note skirmisher would vary far more than other units.

[G. Septimus]

hmmm...
that's quite amusing. do they wear the same Clothes as Hastati?

[irelandeb]

do they wear the same Clothes as Hastati?

legionaries had to buy their own weapons, armour, clothing and other equipment. So even different soldiers of the same type would be wearing different clothes.

[Iasonis]

There were 120 men in each maniple except for the Triarii who were grouped into 60 men. They reorganized the army after the second war with Samnium and they did it in this way mostly to protect the aristocracy because of the earlier defeat and slaughter of almost all of the Patricians at the battle of Alia, by the Senones under Brennon. Marcus Furius Camillus was given the credit for the reform.

[L.C. SVLLA]

10,000 men per maniple.

It isn't so much a "square", but more like a double line close together, so when it's time for battle the rear ranks form up on the left of the unit. something like this:

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII____________ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII hastait maniple
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII____________ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII hastati maniple

to

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII__ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII__ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII__ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII now a longer battle line