Racial differences...

[Kadagar_AV]

Does racial differences exist?

I for one, can tell a huge difference between, say, a Bulldog and a Siberian Husky. Both when it comes to looks, of course, but also behavior. Reading newspapers and stuff, or magazines directed to dog/cat owners, the talk of race is everywhere.

But, if we talk about humans, talk about race is a no-no... "we are all one race, the human race!".

Is this really correct? I for one can see racial differences. Colour of skin, type of hair, shape of eyes... The list goes on. Is the fact that africans excel at long distance running only a cultural question?

Is it then so far fetched to assume that the difference doesn't stop at the physical attributes, but that there also exist cognitive differences? These cognitive differences might then of course depend on physical differences in the brain...

Isn't it time to lift the taboo around this, and study it some? We have whole other techniques now than last it was tried. Hey, the science might even be beneficial in many ways in the struggle to unlock and understand the human genome.

[Fragony]

Do we really want to know, some things are better left alone imho. What can we use it for anyway.

[Kadagar_AV]

Do we really want to know, some things are better left alone imho. What can we use it for anyway.

Some uses...

1. open up another path of human genome research.
2. check what geographical conditions alters what over time, and how.
3. general findings. it is believed (but not proven) that a wide spread of DNA will enhance the human genome. IE, a "black" and a "white" would generally produce a "stronger" offspring than two of the same colour. This is however not proven as I know, as research in the topic is forbidden.

I have a friend who is biologist, he claims that biology research could gain a lot from this lien of research at large, but that unfortunately taboo/laws stop it.

*and no, I do not want to turn this into what race is better/worse/bigger/whatever*

[Fragony]

I doubt such research isn't done behind closed doors, blacks seem to better equiped against cancer and and so they are probably looking into that. Army is probably doing it as well. A 'better than' discussion can't be avoided when you do it in the open so we better don't, a little hypocracy isn't always a bad thing.

[Kadagar_AV]

I doubt such research isn't done behind closed doors, blacks seem to better equiped against cancer and and so they are probably looking into that. Army is probably doing it as well. A 'better than' discussion can't be avoided when you do it in the open so we better don't, a little hypocracy isn't always a bad thing.

This line of research is forbidden in a great many (primarily) western countries. Yours among them I might add.

I appreciate your point. However, this is laws we talk about... It is one thing that this field of studies might get out of hand on the internet (lets hope it doesnt in this topic), however, one might assume scientists would be able to dabble with this without falling into the "We are the better" trap...

Unless some race actually are better at certain things, then it might be worthwhile to learn how, and why, and how we could use that to further the human genome.

[Lemur]

I have a friend who is biologist, he claims that biology research could gain a lot from this lien of research at large, but that unfortunately taboo/laws stop it.

Hmm, I wonder what field your friend is in, 'cause in the area of medicine/pharmaceuticals, racial differences are acknowledged, researched and worked with every day. The differences between ethnic groups are not large, but they are real, and medicine has to deal with them.

Going back to your bulldog/husky comparison, one of the places where that analogy falls flat: inbreeding (or "in-line" breeding, as the dog folks euphemistically put it). Many generations of small-population inbreeding were required to achieve the distinctive look of a bulldog or a dalmation or what-have-you. This is one of the reasons purebred dogs have so many more health problems than mutts. It's also the reason you see such distinct personality differences between breeds.

Now if forty-foot-tall aliens took us as pets, divided us up according to gross facial and bodily characteristics, and then did ten to fifteen generations of inbreeding for aesthetic effect, you'd see something similar. Short of that, however, the analogy breaks down.

[Kadagar_AV]

Hmm, I wonder what field your friend is in, 'cause in the area of medicine/pharmaceuticals, racial differences are acknowledged, researched and worked with every day. The differences between ethnic groups are not large, but they are real, and medicine has to deal with them.

Going back to your bulldog/husky comparison, one of the places where that analogy falls flat: inbreeding (or "in-line" breeding, as the dog folks euphemistically put it). Many generations of small-population inbreeding were required to achieve the distinctive look of a bulldog or a dalmation or what-have-you. This is one of the reasons purebred dogs have so many more health problems than mutts. It's also the reason you see such distinct personality differences between breeds.

Now if forty-foot-tall aliens took us as pets, divided us up according to gross facial and bodily characteristics, and then did ten to fifteen generations of inbreeding for aesthetic effect, you'd see something similar. Short of that, however, the analogy breaks down.

No Lemur, racial differences is hindered by PC, and research on it is an uphill struggle. You are very much correct though, that the difference isnt all that big. But when it comes to, say, medicine, even small differences can have tremendous results, no?

As to why mutts are a stronger breed than "in-line" breeds, did you even read my second post? I seem to remember that I very specifically wrote that a black person having offspring with a white person will generally result in a stronger breed. How very racist of me.

We dont need any aliens to have races, you are aware that the genestock you are from at one point was down to about 15 individuals? Getting out of Africa wasn't ALL that easy you know (I assume you are a white westerner .





Alp_p>>> Oh, my put downs are rarely arbitrary. And yes I hope the mods are watching, if one of the better comes in he could explain your error. I do not mind a debate, it is just idiocy and PC propaganda I have a slight problem with.

[Rhyfelwyr]

So, you claim that there might be some differences, but that science at large shouldn't bother.

Clearly you have a brain for science.

Um... is this what I said? I'm just saying racial differences appear to be very minor, because when you take black people out the jungle they very quickly become part of white western society just like anyone else.

Alp_p>>> Oh, my put downs are rarely arbitrary. And yes I hope the mods are watching, if one of the better comes in he could explain your error. I do not mind a debate, it is just idiocy and PC propaganda I have a slight problem with.

Yeah, because Fragony and myself and the other people you are looking for an argument with are really your typical PC-loving leftists.

[Lemur]

No Lemur, racial differences is hindered by PC, and research on it is an uphill struggle.

I'd like to see a citation for that, please. And anyway, race is a rather sloppy intermediary stage between general medicine and personalized genomic medicine.

A genetic allele that affects the body's response to codeine and antidepressants, for example, "is found in 9%, 17%, and 34% of the Ethiopian, Tanzanian, and Zimbabwean populations, respectively. Clearly, lumping together all of Africa obscures the differences between the populations."

The same gene varies among whites. [...] Looking at the aforementioned gene in both men, the authors point out that Watson, unlike Venter, has two copies of an allele that "is rare in the Caucasian population (3%) but prevalent in East Asian populations." They conclude: "One's ethnicity/race is, at best, a probabilistic guess at one's true genetic makeup."

In the stone age of genetics, we've often had to settle for racial medicine, such as BiDil, the heart-disease drug marketed to blacks. But technology and economics are beginning to carry us beyond that phase. "The costs of whole-genome sequencing and whole-genome genotyping are rapidly decreasing," Venter and his colleagues observe. "Companies such as Navigenics, 23andMe, and deCODE will genotype 600,000 to 1,000,000 markers in an effort to offer personalized genomics; several hundred dollars covers the cost of the technology."

[Furunculus]

Is it then so far fetched to assume that the difference doesn't stop at the physical attributes, but that there also exist cognitive differences? These cognitive differences might then of course depend on physical differences in the brain...

Isn't it time to lift the taboo around this, and study it some? We have whole other techniques now than last it was tried. Hey, the science might even be beneficial in many ways in the struggle to unlock and understand the human genome.

no

yes

otherwise hitler will be a spector that doesn't just haunt us (which it should) but also one that actually retards human development (which it shouldn't)

[Centurion1]

If anyone says that blacks are meeting athletic because they just are I will find you and kill you.

That assumption is my biggest pet peeve, probably because I'm an athlete

[Kadagar_AV]

If anyone says that blacks are meeting athletic because they just are I will find you and kill you.

That assumption is my biggest pet peeve, probably because I'm an athlete

Thank you for your time. Clearly you put a lot of thought into that reply. Rest assured though, I am fairly confident that this thread will not lead to murder. So you are an athlete, I could never have guessed. You don't by any chance also happen to be coloured in a rather darker shade, or is that too much of an assumption?

Clearly you furthered the debate here, well done you!














EDIT: Banging head against keyboard in frustration was obviously not a very successful way of typing, so I had to fix some minor spelling mistakes.

[Hax]

Is the fact that africans excel at long distance running only a cultural question?

No.

Is it important? No.

Does this mean that non-blacks aren't as athletic as blacks? No, not necessarily, as Centurion1 quite eloquently explained.

[Kadagar_AV]

No.

Is it important? No.

Does this mean that non-blacks aren't as athletic as blacks? No, not necessarily, as Centurion1 quite eloquently explained.

So... research into the area as to how mankind can enhance their performance is not of interest?

It is not important to study the very foundation of our being?

Would you mind elaborating your point?

[Louis VI the Fat]

If anyone says that blacks are meeting athletic because they just are I will find you and kill you.

That assumption is my biggest pet peeve, probably because I'm an athlete

Blacks are meeting athletic because they just are.



Athletic achievement at the very highest level requires a lot of hard work, on top of an exactly right constellation of genetic factors. Maradona would never have become the world's greatest Basketball player. We will not see a woman as the world's weight lifting championship. (But, should we develop training and food enough to swim 200 kilometers, this might see a female champion, with the male competitors dropping death along the way).

Specialised athletics is a genetic freak show.

[Centurion1]

It is cultural more than anything for football and basketball

[A Nerd]

I once saw that if your ring finger was larger than your middle finger (or perhaps index vs. middle), this meant that genetically you were a better athlete than those without such a phycial trait. I don't know however, if this had anything to do with ethnicity. I am your average athlete...soooo....