Alpha Protocol

[johnhughthom]

Anybody been waiting for this one, bit surprised it hasn't been mentioned much here as there are a lot of RPG players and a spy RPG sounds pretty awesome. I'm guessing a lot would be put off by it's being made by Obsidian, personally I found NWN2 and KoTOR2 more enjoyable than the originals, I can put up with a buggy game if it has a good story to it. It's pre-loading on Steam as I type, going to bed soon so hopefully it'll be released when I get up and I can play a few hours before work.

[Beskar]

Never heard of it.

[johnhughthom]

Never heard of it.

I'm pretty sure we had a conversation about it over Steam a few months back...

[Hooahguy]

i heard of it because of the bajillion commecials Hulu ran for it over the past month or so. looks interesting, but ill wait a bit before ill buy it- if i buy it.

[johnhughthom]

Superb, the game won't launch. Obsidian have done it again, seems a few people have problems with Windows 7 systems.

edit: Got it running after changing to XP compatability mode.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Obsidion have a bad track record for the last few years. NWN2 was OK, but it was still "gamey" while KOTOR2 was horrid and ruined the original's plot.

Overall, they have yet to produce anything of the artistic integrity of BIOWARE.

So I'm not especially interested.

[johnhughthom]

The game is exactly what I expected, just enjoyable enough storywise for me to be able to overlook some horrible flaws. Quite a few comments I've read mention Deus Ex and Mass Effect, Deus Ex for the atmosphere (doesn't come close to be honest, though what does?) and Mass Effect for the conversation system (quite good). The mini-games seem to be a big gripe, a lockpicking one (pointlessly simple), a electronic bypass one (which seems to be most hated but isn't bad as mini-games go IMHO) and a hacking one (horrible).

Annoyances so far: reloaded at a checkpoint at the start of the first mission to find an enemy standing right in front of me, gunplay is poor, fisticuffs not much better and the movement is clunky, either run or crouch, can't find a walk button. Graphics seem to be a big issue with some, never really a concern for me but I guess they aren't exactly cutting edge. Haven't had any serious bugs.


Yet.

[Azathoth]

KOTOR2 was horrid and ruined the original's plot.

Explain your reasoning.

[Azathoth]

Unfortunately, reports indicate that Alpha Protocol is mediocre.

Eurogamer  7 / 10  
VideoGamer  6 / 10 
1UP  B+  
Gametrailers  6.4 / 10  
Game Informer  6.5 / 10  
GamePro  3.5 / 5  
Gamespot  6/10
Official Xbox Magazine UK  7 / 10
Bit-tech.net  5 / 10
Destructoid  2 / 10

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/28/al...iew/3#comments

I worked on this game (a fact of which I am not proud). I'm not here to defend it; I agree with all these reviews.

First, a comment for the guy at Cheesecake Factory - Most devs eat in the office most days, if they do go out they tend to grab something at the food court and head back. I know the execs take long lunches, but they often use them for informal meetings as well. Most of the programmers and designers very rarely ate outside the office during the time I was on this project.

There was a ton of work put into this game. The problem is that is was a ton of undirected work, or work on things that were just stupid. The Executive Producer for the game, Chris Parker (also an owner of the company), seemed to think he was the world's greatest designer ever, and created all these absolutely shitty systems and wouldn't listen to any of the real designers or devs about things that just didn't work. And you can't exactly argue with one of the owners of the company when he doesn't want to listen. He basically took over the game and dictated exactly how everything would work (or not work, as the case may be). The other producers realized this early on and just gave up, leaving Parker to micromanage all the designers and programmers directly.

Sega also was a factor, because they kept changing the design requirements (yes they had heavy influence there), which never gave the producers and designers time to actually decide on one set of features to make and polish. The blame is still mostly Obsidian's because the execution was absolutely terrible, and it was obvious 2 years ago that this game should have been scrapped. Instead, though, they focused on adding still more features and never fixed the ones they already had. That is a recipe for tons of bugs and no polish... as is obvious.

This game was just an absolute failure of production, and it's no wonder that so many of the developers left the company, even after the 40% staff layoffs. I am still happy about some of Obsidian's other current projects, New Vegas included, because they are going pretty well. Their big unannounced project is looking great and is already much better than AP ever was, and that may end up being the game that everyone was looking for with AP.

Sega should have canceled AP instead of Aliens...

[Beskar]

I am reassured in my impressions of it were correct then.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Explain your reasoning.

Well KOTOR 2 didn't so much end as stop, and it turned Reven from the Fallen Knigh a la Conrad's Heart of Darkness into a sort of Dark Side messiah figure who basically orchastrated the whole war.

KOTOR 1 went to great pains to present Reven as this honourable Jedi who was brash and ultimately corrupted by the brutality of the Mandalorian War, which KOTOR 2 completely undercut. Not to mention, KOTOR 2's graphical design was much less original (the bad guy's ship is just another SD, and they fly around in slightly retro Lambda-Shuttles), and the characters were much more two dimensional and "standard Star Wars". Kreia was particularly badly realised, and was obviously the final "boss" from pretty much the prologue onwards. As a mentor she was wretched, and her utilitarian philosophy was transparently a cover for a Dark-Side agenda.

Then there are other issues, like the Dantooine militia bods inexplicably turning up on Telos station (how did they get there before you? How come they've gone from farmers to elite commandos?).... The list is pretty long.

The crafting system means that beyond level ten you never need to visit a store....

I could go on all day.

KOTOR 2 is inferior in almost every way, about the only thing it surpasses KOTOR 1 in is Force powers, lightsaber combat, and weapon upgrades.

[Azathoth]

In my opinion, they took the plot in exactly the right direction. Besides, KOTOR 2 isn't about Revan at all, it's about the Exile and her experience. Revan is just some distant, legendary, almost biblical figure of unparalleled foresight and vision - which is a good thing - whose direct role in galactic affairs is past. I also think you badly misunderstood Kreia's character.

However, I have to agree that combat was broken; the player character can become near-invulnerable by the endgame. I mean, it makes sense, but it doesn't make for fun gameplay.

[Beskar]

I liked Kreia. I loved how she showed you what ill-effects your good-side actions can cause people. Putting a spin on different events and actions.

[Azathoth]

She's a mythomaniac.

[Lemur]

[johnhughthom]

Hard to argue with that review.

[Lemur]

Yeah, judging by the reviews I've read, you could summarize it all as: "Deus Ex this ain't." Too bad, really. I was ready to smack down $40 for a decent RPG.

[frogbeastegg]

I have to admit that returning to see this thread is not the happiest experience. How many people here have played it? One? How many are panning it without playing it based on paid reviews? Looks like nearly everyone.

I could have told you months ago that this game would be panned by paid reviewers. It has all the classic hallmarks - not pretty, requires time to see the gameplay develop, not by one of the adored big names like Rockstar, no huge advertising budget. That limits the game to a 7/10 or 3/5 at best on most sites, and lo and behold that's close to what it's got on that list posted earlier.

Everywhere I look the paid reviewers are doing their usual, and a whole host of actual players who are loving the game. Finding flaws, yes, but loving it and playing through it more than once to see the other options. There's a 45 page long mostly positive thread over on the very critical quarter to three forums, and a second thread devoted solely to spoilers. That puts it about even with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age. Same kind of reaction on the other forums I've looked at.

People are experiencing vastly different stories based on their choices in this game: who lives, who dies, who's friend and who is foe, where they do and don't go, the very style of standard gameplay itself, it all changes based on player decisions. All styles of play are viable, from run and gun to stealth with minimal (no?) killing.

So I've brought a copy. The only reason it took me so long was I needed to wait for a price drop; now I've got a house to pay for I can't justify full price games. I'm going to start it today and I expect a typical Obsidian experience: average gameplay, some wonkiness and bugs, and an outstanding RPG.

I will say that the console version appears to be the way to go unless you have a pad for your PC. Some of the mini games don't work so well with a mouse and keyboard.

[johnhughthom]

I don't think it's possible to play without killing anybody, there are a few boss battles where I'm pretty sure you need to kill them.

[Monk]

I have to admit that returning to see this thread is not the happiest experience. How many people here have played it? One? How many are panning it without playing it based on paid reviews? Looks like nearly everyone.

I could have told you months ago that this game would be panned by paid reviewers. It has all the classic hallmarks - not pretty, requires time to see the gameplay develop, not by one of the adored big names like Rockstar, no huge advertising budget. That limits the game to a 7/10 or 3/5 at best on most sites, and lo and behold that's close to what it's got on that list posted earlier.

Everywhere I look the paid reviewers are doing their usual, and a whole host of actual players who are loving the game. Finding flaws, yes, but loving it and playing through it more than once to see the other options. There's a 45 page long mostly positive thread over on the very critical quarter to three forums, and a second thread devoted solely to spoilers. That puts it about even with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age. Same kind of reaction on the other forums I've looked at.

People are experiencing vastly different stories based on their choices in this game: who lives, who dies, who's friend and who is foe, where they do and don't go, the very style of standard gameplay itself, it all changes based on player decisions. All styles of play are viable, from run and gun to stealth with minimal (no?) killing.

So I've brought a copy. The only reason it took me so long was I needed to wait for a price drop; now I've got a house to pay for I can't justify full price games. I'm going to start it today and I expect a typical Obsidian experience: average gameplay, some wonkiness and bugs, and an outstanding RPG.

I will say that the console version appears to be the way to go unless you have a pad for your PC. Some of the mini games don't work so well with a mouse and keyboard.

When i heard Obsidian was involved i knew exactly what would happen. Gameplay would be decidedly meh, but the story and rpg itself would be fine and that seems to be the consensus. I think I'll grab it for future playings. For now i'm busy with another (very) flawed but enjoyable RPG - The Witcher. I must be honest, I may or may not finish that one

[rajpoot]

I wrote a small passage about this game on the wiki, and in Gamespot. Don't go by what the 6/10 reviews say. This game shouldn't be compared to other recently released RPGs...specially not Mass Effect 2. Because this is nothing like Mass Effect 2.
The game advertises itself as an Espionage RPG. The 'espionage' part is limited to the fact that the player character is a agent in a sort of spy agency. The stealth mechanics of this game are quite shallow, and rather unsatisfactory. Furthermore, like the reviews are saying, being stealthy isn't needed at all, unless one wants a few perks. This game can easily be played like a shooter after a certain point. The only problem with doing that though, is that in the early portions of the game, hitting the target is hard. To be good at shooting, one needs to invest in the skills, or else the whole assault rifle magazine empties and the enemy will still be standing.
And yes there are a few bugs. None of them game breaking though (And to be honest I didn't encounter a single bug throughout).
So basically this game isn't bad. Infact I enjoyed it a lot. It's a good RPG. Just not a decent stealth game or a decent shooting game. The story is fine, and has a few twists but where it shines is that the players decisions have real effects in how events play out later in the story. That part of decision-effect is done quite well. Better than it was done in the ME series and DAO infact.
The characters are nothing special, and actual interaction with characters, like dialogue and stuff, is limited. That's a drawback. Still the voice acting is fine and that makes some of the characters shine.
The only real disappointment for me was the ending. I found it rather unsatisfactory and lacking.

While everything I wrote above is quite haphazard (), but trust me when I say that this is a game worth playing. Had this been released a few months back...maybe before ME2....then the reviews would've been better. But anyhow, the game's good enough deserves a sequel. A sequel which will come only if this one sells. So please. Get. This. Game.

Edit:
The decision-effect system is actually more akin to what the Witcher has than any other. Like what is done in ME has some minor effects in ME2. In Alpha Protocol though, all the decisions that are made will have an effect before the game ends.

I'll give it 8.5 on 10.

[seireikhaan]

I was turned off when I saw gameplay footage of the player engaged in a shootout with an enemy, who promptly decided, mid fight, that climbing a nearby ladder would be fun. Turns its back, holsters gun, and the player calmly pegs them mid climb. I don't demand the AI be super amazingly cunning, but some common sense is a necessity.

[frogbeastegg]

I didn't get chance to play it at all yesterday. Visitors and so on. This evening, I hope ...

This game shouldn't be compared to other recently released RPGs...specially not Mass Effect 2. Because this is nothing like Mass Effect 2.

Most of the comparisons in that respect have been based on the dialogue system, since they both share a 'pick tone from menu and wait to see what happens' design. AP has a time limit so you can't sit there for ages deciding which is the most beneficial option. Also - supposedly - there are no wrong options. Some people prefer the AP style as it brings tension and a natural flow to dialogue, others don't like the pressure.

The other have been based around NPC loyalty (doing 1 set mission versus needing to work and play to that character's likes), and the effect of player choices (not that much versus quite a lot).

I was turned off when I saw gameplay footage of the player engaged in a shootout with an enemy, who promptly decided, mid fight, that climbing a nearby ladder would be fun. Turns its back holsters gun, and the player calmly pegs them mid climb. I don't demand the AI be super amazingly cunning, but some common sense is a necessity.

Sadly I've seen comparable stunts in many games, past and present and of varying overall quality. Maybe all AI developers have a secret place in their heart where they wish to emulate the old Lemmings games?

For now i'm busy with another (very) flawed but enjoyable RPG - The Witcher. I must be honest, I may or may not finish that one

Did you get the enhanced edition or the enhancement patch for the basic version of the game? They add quite a bit of polish.

I was disappointed when they dropped the console port. The combat system in the game always felt like it suited a pad better than a mouse.

[rajpoot]

I was turned off when I saw gameplay footage of the player engaged in a shootout with an enemy, who promptly decided, mid fight, that climbing a nearby ladder would be fun. Turns its back, holsters gun, and the player calmly pegs them mid climb. I don't demand the AI be super amazingly cunning, but some common sense is a necessity.

That kind of enemy behaviour is actually a rare quirk. Far as I know stuff like that happens when the player is too far away from the enemy....far away enough to be considered out of sight by the AI. In such a situation they stop shooting and start moving in an attempt to get closer to the player\get a better position to shoot from. Happened to me when I was in a firefight and ran to the foot of this ladder, out of the LOS of the enemy at top. So he started climbing down.....

Most of the comparisons in that respect have been based on the dialogue system, since they both share a 'pick tone from menu and wait to see what happens' design. AP has a time limit so you can't sit there for ages deciding which is the most beneficial option. Also - supposedly - there are no wrong options. Some people prefer the AP style as it brings tension and a natural flow to dialogue, others don't like the pressure.

The other have been based around NPC loyalty (doing 1 set mission versus needing to work and play to that character's likes), and the effect of player choices (not that much versus quite a lot).

IMO this individual approval deal, with a numbered scale to mark approval, is a lot better than the system in ME2. Approval system here is a lot more like what it was in DAO. So basically they've picked the dialogue wheel from ME series, and used it with a DAO style approval system. Though, I don't like the time limit thingy either. Nor the fact as to how the number of conversations is so limited and places where conversations trigger, pre-set.

[Monk]

Did you get the enhanced edition or the enhancement patch for the basic version of the game? They add quite a bit of polish.

I was disappointed when they dropped the console port. The combat system in the game always felt like it suited a pad better than a mouse.

Enhanced Edition; it isn't technical problems that hold the game back. It's the simply awful presentation, terrible characterization and voice-acting that can't sell an emotion for anything. As clunky as the combat system is, i actually liked it and i found the story itself to be interesting. But what I can't cope with is a dull, lifeless voice coming from everyone who i'm supposed to sympathize with. They just seem so bored, constantly undermining any sense of urgency I have.

Few more details in the "What are you playing?" topic, as to avoid derailing this thread further.

[frogbeastegg]

I installed this to my 360 last night and decided that it's best not to play it - my console is making the "I'm about to die!" noises I remember so well from the last time it broke. There's a good trade in deal against the new model that's out on the 16th of July so I've decided to barely play it between now and then, hopefully keeping it alive, and trade it. Works out at £80 for a brand new console with a larger HD, halved power consumption, redesigned innards which will be less prone to 360 death syndrome, and to add the cherry to the cake it will be around 5 decibels quieter than my current jumbo jet console.

Damn. I'd been looking forward to this.

[Lemur]

How many people here have played it? One? How many are panning it without playing it based on paid reviews? Looks like nearly everyone.

Sorry to disappoint, Ms. Frog, but I've been a loyal Obsidian customer in the past—can't think of a title of theirs I don't own—and I been burned. Until I hear from experienced RPG hands that Alpha Protocol is the cat's pajamas, the bee's knees and the bishop's handshake, I'm steering clear.

I look forward to reading your impressions, however.

[frogbeastegg]

Sorry to disappoint, Ms. Frog, but I've been a loyal Obsidian customer in the past—can't think of a title of theirs I don't own—and I been burned. Until I hear from experienced RPG hands that Alpha Protocol is the cat's pajamas, the bee's knees and the bishop's handshake, I'm steering clear.

Then go look for some players impressions. Really, go. It's getting a lot of love out there from people who also recognise the flaws. Try here for enough impressions to sink a ship, or rock, paper, shotgun's what I think article.

If you wait for a paid reviewer to say it's good you'll be waiting forever. Sites like IGN and gamespot (home of the Kane and Lynch scandal, lest we forget) were never going to give it a good review. Never. They'll play it for several hours and then pan it because it isn't pretty or made by one of the big names who get away with releasing generic, bland pap.

I have zero faith in any professional review site these days. Haven't for a long time. I go straight to the horse's mouth: players and people reviewing for the love of it. Since I dumped the paid reviews and adopted this approach I haven't picked up a single game I disliked, compared to before where I'd get one every now and then I hated or was apathetic about. Many of the recent games that I've been somewhat disappointed with - say a 7 or 8 out of 10 on the frog scale - have also been those the press made the most fuss out of.

I look forward to reading your impressions, however.

It's going to be several weeks before I can play it. If my xbox dies before trade in day it becomes worthless. :sad frog:

[Beskar]

Works out at £80 for a brand new console with a larger HD, halved power consumption, redesigned innards which will be less prone to 360 death syndrome, and to add the cherry to the cake it will be around 5 decibels quieter than my current jumbo jet console.

Damn. I'd been looking forward to this.

Sorry to go OT, Froggy, but where is this at and is there a limit? (ie: the age of the console, need recipt, etc)

I have had my Xbox360 for 4/5 years, so being able to get a trade-in like that is definitely a good offer for the likes of myself.

Found it:
http://www.game.co.uk/lowdown.aspx?l...pnav-_-tradein