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Thread: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTSecondNews

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    French Protest Pension Shift

    By DAVID GAUTHIER-VILLARS

    PARIS—French labor unions used a nationwide protest on Thursday to voice opposition to government plans to increase the minimum retirement age from 60.

    Tens of thousands of workers joined rallies, including teachers, air-traffic controllers and museum wardens as well as some private-sector workers, from Marseille in the south to Lille in the north.

    "We're seeing the highest mobilization since the start of the year," said François Chérèque, head of the umbrella union CFDT, in Paris. "The government must revisit its plan."

    Government spokesman Luc Chatel said the turnout at the demonstrations was "low."

    President Nicolas Sarkozy says French people can't afford to retire earlier than most of their European Union neighbors, who have cut pension benefits or raised future retirement ages in accordance with rising life expectancies.

    The annual deficit of France's state-run pension funds could exceed €100 billion ($122 billion) by 2050, from an estimated €10 billion this year, according to a council advising the government.

    Targeted by Mr. Sarkozy as a national priority, the proposed pension overhaul is regarded as a test of France's ability to preserve a generous social-welfare system without piling up debt.

    Although the government hasn't yet released details of a plan, it has made clear it wants people to work longer and retire later to help finance the pension system's growing shortfall. A pension bill could be drafted in July and presented in September to Parliament, where Mr. Sarkozy's ruling UMP party has a majority.

    "The main response to demographic imbalances should be demographic," Labor Minister Eric Woerth said last week.

    Economists say raising the retirement age and the number of years workers contribute to the state-run system would only halve its shortfall. A rise in payroll taxes is inevitable, they say, unless pensioners agree to receive significantly lower pensions. The government has ruled out increasing payroll taxes, saying it would hurt the competitiveness of French companies. However, it has said a "symbolic" tax on wealthy households and some capital gains was being considered.

    France reduced the minimum retirement age to 60 from 65 in 1983 under Socialist President François Mitterrand. The move is seen by unions as a major social victory, ranking with five-week holidays, a minimum wage and the 35-hour workweek. Most union leaders, including Mr. Chérèque, say the 60-year mark is "non-negotiable."

    On Tuesday, at a rally of his UMP party near Paris, Mr. Sarkozy said France would have "fewer problems" had Mr. Mitterrand "abstained" from lowering the minimum retirement age.

    Mr. Sarkozy's attack on Mr. Mitterrand's legacy has stirred a debate within France's opposition Socialist Party. Party leader Martine Aubry has said that, if Mr. Sarkozy raises the retirement age, she would bring it back down again if elected president in 2012.

    Another French Socialist leader has been more nuanced. Asked by TV channel France 2 whether the time had come to raise the retirement age, International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn said: "If we succeed in living until 100 years, we can't go on retiring at 60."


    Man I thought social security was bad in this country. Leaving out the absurdity of retiring at 60 in this day and age, even with the upped retirement age, the pension system will still face a drastic shortfall which means that both cuts are needed and additional taxes are needed on already heavily taxed population. I'm not quite sure what exactly these people expect the government to do.
    Last edited by Ice; 05-28-2010 at 05:07.



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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    You can retire whenever you like, even at 21. It is just a matter of having the money or not.

    State pension on the otherhand have their limits, but for private pensions, go and have fun.

    I personally don't believe in any limits, and in a sense, scrapping the forced-retirement age. There are those which are still happy to keep working and are discriminated against because of their age. However, for a state pension, there should be a limit.
    Last edited by Beskar; 05-28-2010 at 05:07.
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    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    I'm confused. What exactly is a "minimum retirement age"?

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    I'm confused. What exactly is a "minimum retirement age"?
    The lowest possible age you can retire, and start recieving benefits. If the French system is similar to our, the longer you wait, the larger pension you get.



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    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    So a minimum pension age? Minimum retirement age is a bit of misnomer. I think ours is 65, but there are plans to increase it in coming years.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    French Civil Servants get 70% of their final salary for life. From 60.

    Oddly, it used to be 65 in the 1980's. Then, seeing as how life expectancy was getting longer it was reduced by 5 years. A nice time bomb for later governments.

    As a famous slum clearance activist said over 100 years ago when state pensions in the UK were first muted, state pensions destroy communities and remove the need for individual responsibility and thrift.

    There should be no retirement age. Retire whenever you feel like it. The earlier you do it, the more money you'll need.

    There should be no state pension (or an extremely limited one). Currently unless you have loads of money, saving for one's own pension first diminishes the state one. So you need to save a lot to make a difference to one's income.

    There is no universal right to 20 years of relaxation. Some can afford it, some longer, some a lot shorter. That's reality. If you don't like it blame God.

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    The point of life is not to spend as much of it working as possible. The point is creative, human, emotional, aestethic, intellectual, hedonistic pursuit.

    Economic growth and progress need to be geared towards that.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the world is inhabited by worker ants who think people ought to work fourteen hours a day, six days a week, 50 weeks a year, from age five until death. This, its proponents triumphantly claim, means more production and thus is superior. They are right it allows for more economic production and bitterly, bitterly wrong in mistaking it for higher standard of living.

    Unfortunately, capitalism is a winner takes all system. If your neighbour declines seeing his chiuldren grow up so he can slave his life away working, he wins all. Such is the nature of the rat race.

    By it, the pinnacle of evolution, the creative ape, reduces itself to the level of the worker ant.
    Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 05-28-2010 at 12:45.
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    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    The point of life is not to spend as much of it working as possible. The point is creative, human, emotional, aestethic, hedonistic expression.

    Economic growth and progress need to be geared towards that.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the world is inhabited by worker ants who think people ought to work fourteen hours a day, six days a week, 50 weeks a year, from age five until death. This, its proponents triumphantly claim, means more production and thus is superior. They are right it allows for more economic production and bitterly, bitterly wrong in mistaking it for higher standard of living.

    Unfortunately, capitalism is a winner takes all system. If your neighbour declines seeing his chiuldren grow up so he can slave his life away working, he wins all. Such is the nature of the rat race.

    By it, the pinnacle of evolution, the creative ape, reduces itself to the level of the worker ant.
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    The scrapping of retirement and pension age is potentially a good idea. A graduated retirement schedule may result in overall cost savings.


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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Sadly it seems all persons in France view themselves as ruling elite - others should provide so they can go on doing what they want.

    Farms inefficient? Charge more to the consumers? Well, they aren't going to pay for it... Subsidies!
    Want to retire early and not work hard? Be less materialistic. Impossible! How else to pay for holidays / expensive foods / clothes / healthcare etc?
    There is another option: retire early and then die early too. As Health Economists say, death is free.

    If France lived within its means it does not need to join the Capitalist system which it purports to despise. It doesn't, so it whines that others aren't giving even more money willingly, the current subsidies only enough to prop up parts of the countryside.

    I like my job. I enjoy the work. The people are interesting too. I look forward to gaining experience and standing. I look forward to working abroad to get new experiences. I would not be happy working for 20 hours a week and spending the rest of the time lying in the garden. I would be bored.

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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Cut the pensions of the civil servants; bring pensions of people working in the private sector at the same level as the pensions of the civil servants.

    But yeah, I think you should be able to retire at 60 and have a state pension; maybe get a larger one if you keep working until 65 or so (or tax benefits if you keep working after you turned 60).

    With all the modern technology we now have, we need less work force. It's absurd that people still have to work work work and those that don't work are considered to be lazy nitwits. The more progress we make, the less work force we need, so there simply is not enough work to keep everybody busy full time.

    In my country, 434.748 people are currently unemployed. I refuse to believe that this are all lazy useless people. Yet, our government tries to sell to us that the age of retirment has to be set on 67 or 68 instead of 65. Why would I have to keep working my butt of until I reach 68 while there are so many people unemployed, most of them eager to find a job? It's absurd.

    I think we need to rethink everything and need to get out of the frameworks we're so stuck in. This is 2010, not 1970.

    It should be forbidden to work more than 4 days a week as long as there are so many unemployed people.

    Those who have a job, should work less, earn less, enjoy their lives; those who don't have a job, need to get one, to regain self-esteem.

    This is one of my pet peeves; so many people are jobless, yet they try to tell us we have to work harder, more and longer. I don't care about what statistics and studies you throw at me in an attempt to convince me that this isn't absurd. It is absurd, period.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    There should be no state pension (or an extremely limited one).
    I agree.

    A man who has struggled to find work that pays much more than minimum wage, paid a mortgage (or if they are really unlucky - paid rent), raised children, etc

    A woman who was widowed after raising children

    A person who was unable to work due to illness.

    These are the people who should by rights be roaming the streets begging. That'll make the place better and mean that us middle classes don't have to pay any more taxes. After all - there is that new ipad I want, and there's the new car we want.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    For the hard of thinking amongst us:

    A minimum state pension means one doesn't have to beg!

    Perhaps that woman can get help from her children - or maybe get a job part time...
    Only able to get a menial job? Good to see that the decade or so in school wasn't wasted. He should be showered with money for achieving nothing. After all, in areas of unemployment it'd be unfair to have to move. Best leave that to Eastern Europeans to do that sort of thing.

    Widowed: Life insurance
    "Unable" (odd that we have twice as many of these persons as France - must be the climate...) to work: Income insurance.

    I agree. Since there are so many ways to better oneself and gain qualifications and ways to hedge against adversity that people don't take, I say we tax everyone to the hilt, employ a legion of people to give out benefits in a variety of ways (currently 51 with 800 pages of documents to help understand what is for what) as this will make society independent and self sufficient...

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    The point of life is not to spend as much of it working as possible. The point is creative, human, emotional, aestethic, intellectual, hedonistic pursuit.

    Economic growth and progress need to be geared towards that.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the world is inhabited by worker ants who think people ought to work fourteen hours a day, six days a week, 50 weeks a year, from age five until death. This, its proponents triumphantly claim, means more production and thus is superior. They are right it allows for more economic production and bitterly, bitterly wrong in mistaking it for higher standard of living.

    Unfortunately, capitalism is a winner takes all system. If your neighbour declines seeing his chiuldren grow up so he can slave his life away working, he wins all. Such is the nature of the rat race.

    By it, the pinnacle of evolution, the creative ape, reduces itself to the level of the worker ant.
    That's all nice and good (I'd agree with you to some extent about most of the world being overworked), but France takes this to an EXTREME. You can't have a 35 hour work week, retirement at 60 with 70% of your salary, and five weeks vacation and be competive with the rest of the world. It simply does not work. With increased lifespan in developed nations, people are living longer. Unless you simply want to tax everyone at 60% of their income, there is simply is no way to afford this and stay competiive. Reality blows.

    Btw, it was the socialists who lowered the retirement age (seems logical right?). Well, one has to look at possible alterior motives. Allowing workers to retire, opens up jobs for others, reducing the umemployment rate. It seems more of a way of manipulating economic data that actually caring about the worker.



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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    The point of life is not to spend as much of it working as possible. The point is creative, human, emotional, aestethic, intellectual, hedonistic pursuit.

    Economic growth and progress need to be geared towards that.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the world is inhabited by worker ants who think people ought to work fourteen hours a day, six days a week, 50 weeks a year, from age five until death. This, its proponents triumphantly claim, means more production and thus is superior. They are right it allows for more economic production and bitterly, bitterly wrong in mistaking it for higher standard of living.

    Unfortunately, capitalism is a winner takes all system. If your neighbour declines seeing his chiuldren grow up so he can slave his life away working, he wins all. Such is the nature of the rat race.

    By it, the pinnacle of evolution, the creative ape, reduces itself to the level of the worker ant.
    Couldnt agree more.Well said Louis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice View Post
    That's all nice and good (I'd agree with you to some extent about most of the world being overworked), but France takes this to an EXTREME. You can't have a 35 hour work week, retirement at 60 with 70% of your salary, and five weeks vacation and be competive with the rest of the world. It simply does not work. With increased lifespan in developed nations, people are living longer. Unless you simply want to tax everyone at 60% of their income, there is simply is no way to afford this and stay competiive. Reality blows.

    Btw, it was the socialists who lowered the retirement age (seems logical right?). Well, one has to look at possible alterior motives. Allowing workers to retire, opens up jobs for others, reducing the umemployment rate. It seems more of a way of manipulating economic data that actually caring about the worker.
    Well the workers claiming the jobs of those retired create tax revenue as well. To me it is lot more important to make each citizen be somewhat productive, rather then host a large group of unemployed,while others are worked to death.
    Last edited by Kagemusha; 05-28-2010 at 16:45.
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    I think minimum retirement ages should be scrapped. Either you have built up sufficient capital to live out the remainder of your life without working for pay; or you have not in which case you should probably continue working. (E.g retirement at 40 is unlikely for that same reason; whereas retirement at 60 may be quite plausible for some.)
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    The point of life is not to spend as much of it working as possible. The point is creative, human, emotional, aestethic, intellectual, hedonistic pursuit.

    Economic growth and progress need to be geared towards that.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the world is inhabited by worker ants who think people ought to work fourteen hours a day, six days a week, 50 weeks a year, from age five until death. This, its proponents triumphantly claim, means more production and thus is superior. They are right it allows for more economic production and bitterly, bitterly wrong in mistaking it for higher standard of living.

    Unfortunately, capitalism is a winner takes all system. If your neighbour declines seeing his chiuldren grow up so he can slave his life away working, he wins all. Such is the nature of the rat race.

    By it, the pinnacle of evolution, the creative ape, reduces itself to the level of the worker ant.
    2 weeks of vacation?

    Wow you French have it good
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Well if retirement age should be scrapped.Why dont we force the children to work also? Those little nuisances only spend their days idle or in schools with tax payers money.This cant be tolerated!
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    The age of leaving school has been historically another technique to reduce unemployment by artificially reducing the workforce. 12, then 14, 16, 18, 21.

    It is equally insane to leave children in school, not learning, not doing anything practical that they might enjoy to be discharged with a piece of paper that officially proves they are not academics.

    Leaving school early does not preclude academic achievement later. One of the Partners who I work with left school at 16 to work in a lab. He's now done a BSc, a MSc and is a consultant in the field of microbiology.

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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    The age of leaving school has been historically another technique to reduce unemployment by artificially reducing the workforce. 12, then 14, 16, 18, 21.

    It is equally insane to leave children in school, not learning, not doing anything practical that they might enjoy to be discharged with a piece of paper that officially proves they are not academics.

    Leaving school early does not preclude academic achievement later. One of the Partners who I work with left school at 16 to work in a lab. He's now done a BSc, a MSc and is a consultant in the field of microbiology.

    Yes lets put the 14 years old to sweatshops for 16 hours a day.What a grand idea!
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Let me know when you are up to debating the topic and not going off on one...

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    Let me know when you are up to debating the topic and not going off on one...

    I dont think there is enough common ground to debate with you on the subject.I find your notions disturbing in too many levels, to try and convince you otherwise.
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    I agree. If "debate" includes giving examples using twice the average working day for adults in the UK then what is the point?

    Last edited by rory_20_uk; 05-28-2010 at 17:27.
    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    2 weeks of vacation?

    Wow you French have it good
    The French take the saying “Living as God in France” literally, word for word.
    @Kagemusha: The retirement age was invented in a day and age that pretty much everyone did start working early, the people at age 60 were actually really old and health&safety regulations not to mention mechanisation & automatisation were nowhere near what we have now. In other words, the good old days. Back on planet earth that meant you worked for about 40 - 50 years. Today that means you work about 30-40 years, and the yardstick of old age has been pushed well back to 80-90 years old.

    Now, over here where I live the retirement process is complicated somewhat by the fact that you have personal capital (pension), possibly a labour-contract mandated pension (paid by the employer as part of secondary work conditions similar to company cars and days off), and finally a state handout called AOW. That AOW is fairly expensive to society as a whole but to the people who do have a solid pension it is not quite all that it is cracked up to be. It won't pay you house rent, for instance. I'd like to make the AOW be something more substantial but for a smaller portion of society. People who do have a solid pension and could do without AOW probably should not receive as much as those who don't... Depending on how it is done this could in fact work out as a reduction on income tax for all; a slightly higher AOW for some and no or less AOW for others.

    Furthermore there is also a concept of forced-retirement age: people are forced to retire in some professions if over a certain age (70 or so). That should be done away with, it is purely an unemployment statistics trick that backfires on individuals who like their job and society as a whole because these people are typically highly experienced, skilled, and they pay for the upkeep of the state.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 05-28-2010 at 17:42.
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  24. #24
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha View Post
    Yes lets put the 14 years old to sweatshops for 16 hours a day.What a grand idea!


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  25. #25
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    the meditteranean countries (greece, italy, spain and to a lesser degree france) will never be top dog becuase of this mindset of relaxation, early retirement, etc. However, worker ants as louis so eloquently stated are going to rule the world because they are more productive, like east asian nations.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Yeap, scrap the retirement age! Now, guys, when your 707 70 years old pilot will go in the cockpit, I hope you won’t get out the plane…
    Or the high-speed train.
    And don’t give me the health problem as an answer as the pre-supposed is nowadays we are fit to work until 75. That is why we have to work longer…
    Mind you, who will hire a 60 years old carpenter?

    NEWS: The problem with workers is they don’t die fast enough for the pension to get profitable…

    Solutions: Stop ban smoking, low the price of alcohol, more fast food, less health and safety thingies, more salt.

    Of course, the other way to tax not any more the workforce but taking in account the machines ad tools of production in the taxation will not be an option. Not in our Capitalistic world. Machines and invests are important, not the people.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Louis, capitalism is like democracy, the worst form except for all of the others.

    35 hour work week? Truly? I knew about the 5 weeks vac, but a 4 day week as well?

    Typical salaried position in the USA is 45-55 hours/week, with higher numbers for most professionals. If you're looking to become one of those "horrid CEO" types at a major corp, plan on 60-70/week. Of course, once you reach CEO, you can kick back at about 45ish hours (as long as you remember you're on call 24-7-365.25.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  28. #28
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    The point of life is not to spend as much of it working as possible. The point is creative, human, emotional, aestethic, intellectual, hedonistic pursuit.

    Economic growth and progress need to be geared towards that.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the world is inhabited by worker ants who think people ought to work fourteen hours a day, six days a week, 50 weeks a year, from age five until death. This, its proponents triumphantly claim, means more production and thus is superior. They are right it allows for more economic production and bitterly, bitterly wrong in mistaking it for higher standard of living.

    Unfortunately, capitalism is a winner takes all system. If your neighbour declines seeing his chiuldren grow up so he can slave his life away working, he wins all. Such is the nature of the rat race.

    By it, the pinnacle of evolution, the creative ape, reduces itself to the level of the worker ant.
    Capitalism is not a winner takes all system. That's silly hyperbole. The French system is collapsing not because the rest of the world wants to work, but because their system is unsustainable even among themselves.

    The simple fact of the matter is that they cannot pay for the benefits they have decreed for themselves. Those working cannot pay for the benefits of those not working. The rest of the world could be as lazy - creative - as yourselves and that would just mean the rest of the world would be in France's situation. You speak of how the true purpose of life isn't just working, but defend high pensions. Your realize your system would have a better chance of working if people did not care so much about the high material value of their pensions - if they actually practiced what you claim they believe.

    It should be forbidden to work more than 4 days a week as long as there are so many unemployed people.
    Good grief. So you would massively cut the amount of production, while forcing employers to hire more people and pay more just to maintain the same level of production? You think reducing the economic incentive to hire people will increase employment?


    CR
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  29. #29
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Louis, capitalism is like democracy, the worst form except for all of the others.

    35 hour work week? Truly? I knew about the 5 weeks vac, but a 4 day week as well?

    Typical salaried position in the USA is 45-55 hours/week, with higher numbers for most professionals. If you're looking to become one of those "horrid CEO" types at a major corp, plan on 60-70/week. Of course, once you reach CEO, you can kick back at about 45ish hours (as long as you remember you're on call 24-7-365.25.
    I'd agree with this assessment. Public accountants work 40-50 hours during the non busy season, and anywhere from 50-70 hours during busy season. Big 4 (largest public accounting firms) work 50 hours year round, with busy season getting as high as 80.



  30. #30
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should you be able to retire at 60 years old? French labor unions think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Blabla

    CR
    The french system is collapsing no more than the american or british system. Last time I checked, you were the guys going to blow up the world economy because of your silly debts.

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