Town Council being bullied into changing centuries-old tradition

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1985675.html

What's this you say? An atheist Councillor on Bideford Town Council (near where I grew up) is, along with the National Secular Society, is taking this local Council to the High Court in order to stop them saying prayers before meeting. Why is he doing this, you ask? Well, because they make him, "embarressed".

I'm sorry, I thought we lived in a democracy, and if the majority of Councillors elected want prayers - why can't they have them?

If a republican was embarresed by the Royal Arms, we wouldn't take them down.

This goes for any religion or denomination, I fail to see why forcing religious people to hide their religion is seen as "progreesive". As far as I can see, this is a degressive totalitarian stance, and it is getting worse in this country.

[miotas]

They can pray in their own time, having formal prayers as a part of the council meeting is ridiculous.

[Subotan]

They can pray in their own time, having formal prayers as a part of the council meeting is ridiculous.

If I was in that councillors position, I would most likely feel embarrassed whilst everyone around me prayed.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If I was in that councillors position, I would most likely feel embarrassed whilst everyone around me prayed.

I never understand this. Can you enlighten me?

[Fragony]

Can you enlighten me?

probably not ;)

[Rhyfelwyr]

Atheism is a luxury for the middle-classes. Secular humanism is the new opium of the people, a bourgeoisie ideology increasingly being imposed on the superstitious, religious masses through the bourgoisie political institutions (liberal democracy). The civic spirit which comes with secular humanism, is surely a diversion from the real issue of class struggle. The whole idea of live and let live, and the moral relativism launched in response to religious absolutism, is in reality a facade to protect bourgeoisie decadencies such as nationalism and homosexuality. I remember someone on the TWC said atheists make up IIRC 14% of the US population, yet only 0.2% of the prison population - I doubt that is due to their superior atheist morals.

I know it's different for different countries, but here in the UK, when someone actually goes to the trouble of identifying as a secular humanist as opposed to being nominally religious, you can be 90% sure it's some middle-class guy going through a mid-life crisis, it's like the mini-rebellion for those that don't go for motorbiking.

[Pannonian]

If I was in that councillors position, I would most likely feel embarrassed whilst everyone around me prayed.

I've stayed sitting down when around 40,000 others were standing up. I didn't insist on the others following me and sit down, I just did what I did and let the others do what they do. One's freedom ends where it impinges on others.

[Brenus]

There you go for the seperation Church and State... Like in Iran...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There you go for the seperation Church and State... Like in Iran...

Seriously, you're comparing rural England to Iran?

[Meneldil]

There you go for the seperation Church and State... Like in Iran...

I demand us french godless atheists get our own specific smiley. Some yellow-ball tearing down a church while waving a flag would be nifty.

[InsaneApache]

I've stayed sitting down when around 40,000 others were standing up. I didn't insist on the others following me and sit down, I just did what I did and let the others do what they do. One's freedom ends where it impinges on others.

Quite so.

[Fragony]

Does he as an atheist have to say prayer as well, I would definately refuse to do so.

[PanzerJaeger]

It argues that formal recitation of prayers at the meetings breaches Article 9 of the European Convention of Human Rights, which protects freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Now the group is seeking a judicial review to settle the issue.

There's some irony in there... somewhere...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Does he as an atheist have to say prayer as well, I would definately refuse to do so.

No, he doesnt. He can abstain, or leave the room.

They can pray in their own time, having formal prayers as a part of the council meeting is ridiculous.

Why? Just accross the border in Torrington the investiture of the new Mayor always includes a Church service.

[HoreTore]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1985675.html

What's this you say? An atheist Councillor on Bideford Town Council (near where I grew up) is, along with the National Secular Society, is taking this local Council to the High Court in order to stop them saying prayers before meeting. Why is he doing this, you ask? Well, because they make him, "embarressed".

I'm sorry, I thought we lived in a democracy, and if the majority of Councillors elected want prayers - why can't they have them?

If a republican was embarresed by the Royal Arms, we wouldn't take them down.

This goes for any religion or denomination, I fail to see why forcing religious people to hide their religion is seen as "progreesive". As far as I can see, this is a degressive totalitarian stance, and it is getting worse in this country.

Good.

The state is and should remain secular. "Tradition" is a word usually used to defend practices we know are wrong and halt our progress to a better future.