Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

[Idaho]

Israel Kills to Maintain Blockade

Israel of course claims that it was fired on - but of course they will retract this 3 months down the line in a muttering aside by some minister. Just like the white phosphorous attacks in Gaza, etc.

They want to starve out the Palestinians, and they won't tolerate any interference in this plan.

[Fragony]

meh the Palestinians aren't starving they are the fattest people of the planet second only to Qatar. Of course they want to see what's in these ships, and they were warned in advance. Israel is at war with Hamas what did they expect. Sink them next time for all I care boohoohoo.

[Furunculus]

Israel of course claims that it was fired on - but of course they will retract this 3 months down the line in a muttering aside by some minister. Just like the white phosphorous attacks in Gaza, etc.

They want to starve out the Palestinians, and they won't tolerate any interference in this plan.

hmmm, like the massacre in the Jenin camp too i presume?

starve them out where? where to?

[Ser Clegane]

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[tibilicus]

And so the Israeli sympathisers are in, let the debate begin!

I'm sorry but even if you are sympathetic to Israel's aims (what ever that is, because I'm a bit lost) this isn't really justifiable. For a start, I don't even know what they hoped to find on board seeming the ship is an aid ship. The chances of there being weapons, or at least a serious armament are seriously low seeming the ship left from Cyprus, a place where I imagine it isn't particularly easy to smuggle weapons from due to the presence of both UN and British forces. I guess they could of been shipped from Turkey but again, that's unlikely. It probably comes down to ill-discipline and poor intelligence on the Israelis part again.

Israel is showing an increasingly hostile attitude to the Palestinians and seems to be moving further and faster to a form of apartheid. Some of you may try and deny this, but don't bother. Arabs within Israel and those in Palestine can't freely walk in certain areas without receiving a hail of abuse, most Israelis despise them. As an Arab you can also look forward to having your house knocked down to make way for a nice new Israeli house. Any one want to justify that? You can't deny it isn't a form of apartheid. Arabs are discriminated against economically and socially.

Perhaps most worrying though is the fact that Israel have shown a profound ability to show a complete disregard for its western allies. The actions of recent years show they don't consult their allies, not even the USA any more, before making key decisions. We talk about Iran as the rouge state but is Israel not the same? If they refuse to show restraint despite international condemnation for their actions time, and time, and time again, how can any one here defend them?

[LeftEyeNine]

19, by the Israeli press, or 10, by the Israeli army, civilians are claimed to be murdered of whom 9 are Turks.

The civilian aid ships destined to Gaza were attacked by Israeli army with troopers offloaded from helicopters in international waters.

While, at the same time there has been a terrorist attack in Iskenderun, town of the Hatay county, closest city to Syria and Israel, killing 6 Turkish soldiers on duty, presumably committed by Israeli-educated and supplied PKK.

Israel, as a state, is no less sicker than North Korea -definitely violent at all terms considering nothing when it comes to anything related to Palestine.

One can not imagine they represent the sufferers of the Holocaust. Offensive phrase removed by moderator.

[Andres]

A ruling of the International Cour of Justice in the Hague from July 9, 2004, stated that their famous wall was a violation of international law.

I think it is safe to assume that this attack to ensure that their blockade is maintained, is also a violation of international law. Of course, the UN will do nothing, since Israels' migthy ally has veto power.

Interesting to note that Israel is also among the states that is not a member of International Criminal Court.

[Fragony]

pffffffffffffffft of course they can't just allow direct shipment to Ghaza. Clear case of gambled and lost.

[LeftEyeNine]

So it's rightful to open-fire at a civilian ship and kill in order to prevent the shipment while there is no armed resistance occuring ?

[Fragony]

So it's rightful to open-fire at a civilian ship and kill in order to prevent the shipment while there is no armed resistance occuring ?

No resistance? Says who? Not what I heard.

[LeftEyeNine]

Sorry but what kind of an armed resistance could you expect out of ships checked in Cyprus ? Now what did you hear and from whom please ?

[Louis VI the Fat]

19, by the Israeli press, or 10, by the Israeli army, civilians are claimed to be murdered of whom 9 are Turks.

The civilian aid ships destined to Gaza were attacked by Israeli army with troopers offloaded from helicopters in international waters.

While, at the same time there has been a terrorist attack in Iskenderun, town of the Hatay county, closest city to Syria and Israel, killing 6 Turkish soldiers on duty, presumably committed by Israeli-educated and supplied PKK.

Israel, as a state, is no less sicker than North Korea -definitely violent at all terms considering nothing when it comes to anything related to Palestine.

One can not imagine they represent the sufferers of the Holocaust. removed

Meh, I'm not a fan of Israel's gung-ho attitude, but this armada got precisely what it was looking for.

The whole point of the exercise was to provoke Israel, to pit 'unarmed' activists against the Israeli army, by trying to break the blockade with an armada of ships.

Well done to the activists, Israeli-Turkish relations are strained beyond repair.

[Andres]

pffffffffffffffft of course they can't just allow direct shipment to Ghaza. Clear case of gambled and lost.

I think you're missing the point. The blockade violates international law, a fortiori, attacking ships to enforce and maintain the illegal blockade violates international law.

Interesting read for you.

[tibilicus]

No resistance? Says who? Not what I heard.

They were attacked with knives and clubs. The reports of being attacked with live ammunition was added sometime after the incident, making such claims dubious. Point being that still doesn't justify a gross breach of international law and the heavy handedness of the Israeli forces. Troops are trained for such situations if they meet resistance, you don't just open fire.

This event actually reminds of a similar event in 1972, where 14 people were shot dead on a civil rights march. I guess at least "Bloody Sunday" is justifiable from a British view point. This event isn't, seeming Israel were the ones who provoked the situation.

[Sigurd]

It is the international waters part that makes this a bad case for Israel.
They don't have jurisdiction in international waters and this can be treated as pure piracy by international courts.

[Andres]

Meh, I'm not a fan of Israel's gung-ho attitude, but this armada got precisely what it was looking for.

The whole point of the exercise was to provoke Israel, to pit 'unarmed' activists against the Israeli army, by trying to break the blockade with an armada of ships.

Well done to the activists, Israeli-Turkish relations are strained beyond repair.

Sometimes, a provocation is needed to get attention. This blockade must stop.

They don't have jurisdiction in international waters and this can be treated as pure piracy by international courts.

If only big countries would recognise the ICC, then that court could be made competent to handle this case of piracy... It would help if Israel would also recognise it.

[Fragony]

Sorry but what kind of an armed resistance could you expect out of ships checked in Cyprus ? Now what did you hear and from whom please ?

Gunshots that type, we will see. A boat packed with pro-Palestnian activists being boarded by the Israeli's getting out of hand, not that odd a thought no?

[Andres]

Gunshots that type, we will see. A boat packed with pro-Palestnian activists being boarded by the Israeli's getting out of hand, not that odd a thought no?

Tell me, according to you, on what basis is Israel allowed to send armed troops to board a foreign ship in international waters?

Please, tell me how is this different from Somalian pirates boarding a, let's say, English or Russian, vessel in international waters?

Don't tell me you're going to use double standards because in this case the perpetrator is Israel and not some Somalian starved, poor and desperate guys.

[Jolt]

Gunshots that type, we will see. A boat packed with pro-Palestnian activists being boarded by the Israeli's getting out of hand, not that odd a thought no?

I wonder how would the soldiers feel if they saw through a live feed seeing a boat of pro-Jewish people be boarded and more than a dozen people be killed by Nazi soldiers. They would all cry "OUTRAGE! ANTI-SEMITISM!", now they have no problem in doing that to other peoples.

I fully agree with LEN. It is nothing short of absolutely outrageous and a crime against the peace that unarmed civilians are gunned down in international waters by the Israeli official military forces while carrying international aid. The Israeli ambassador in Turkey should have been kicked out immediately.

[Fragony]

Tell me, according to you, on what basis is Israel allowed to send armed troops to board a foreign ship in international waters?

Survival, rules be damned. Maybe these boats are packed with weapons, of course they boarded. They gotten the offer to unload at an Israeli harbour but decided differently.

[Andres]

Survival, rules be damned.

Oh well, if you think international law is complete rubbish, then there's no point discussing this topic with you

[LeftEyeNine]

Oh and that brings up another face of the diamond, Louis.

We've got a Islamist government run dominantly by the single party, AKP for 8 years now since 2002.

These guys are "fans of Palestinians" and it's Turkey where since 2007, 134 workers have died - and been dying on a nearly monthly basis- in Tuzla shipyard and there is nothing fixed ever since. It's Turkey where 19 mining workers have died in a mine 2 weeks ago of whom our prime minister spoke "this is not the first time a mining accident happening".

Considering this "fandom" along with the bitter situation of which caring for your very own citizens is "less favorable", this could have been avoided. But it's all politics right now and things get stuck when we presume "what if the government alignment had nothing to do with Palestinians ?".

It still is another murder show demonstrated by Israel, other than building up that wall, knocking down homes, committing genocide by trying to starve out Palestinians and not letting the patients to be treated and whole world will be watching it with "official disapproval of the incidents" flying around thanks to the Big "Uncle Sam" Israel's sickening power.

Change the sides and let Israel be Iran instead. I'd love to see that nuclear-sized hypocrisy. Same people, let alone gov'ts, would be saying "oh such a shame, this is a direct assault on humanity and should not go unpunished ! Long live Israel and the dead free people of Iran !".

Bleh.

[Fragony]

I wonder how would the soldiers feel if they saw through a live feed seeing a boat of pro-Jewish people be boarded and more than a dozen people be killed by Nazi soldiers. They would all cry "OUTRAGE! ANTI-SEMITISM!", now they have no problem in doing that to other peoples.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, I wouldn't like that either. So they should just look the other way when a fleet heads directly to Ghaza? Where is all that outrage when Egypt fills smuggling tunnels with poisenous gas, yeah they do that. They also build walls. Nobody cares.

[Andres]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, I wouldn't like that either. So they should just look the other way when a fleet heads directly to Ghaza? Where is all that outrage when Egypt fills smuggling tunnels with poisenous gas, yeah they do that. They also build walls. Nobody cares.

We all learned in elementary school that two wrongs don't make a right.

Feel free to open a thread about Egypt and their horrendous acts and I'll be as outraged as I am here.

However, that doesn't make this recent action of Israel any less a violation of international law nor does it make the blockade of Gaza any less a violation of international law.

But go ahead, if you must, with the argument "but they're doing it too, and worse!" It's not very compelling, though.

[LeftEyeNine]

LEN's first Tweet ever:

"Advocation of civilians getting killed by a state army on a civilian ship in international waters by bringing in "Hamas wants to destroy Israel" statement."

[Fragony]

So, you do think they should look away when a fleet heads directly to Hamas-country? Who have vowed to destroy Israel? Kidding me? I would also justify it if they sank them all.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Oh and that brings up another face of the diamond, Louis.

We've got a Islamist government run dominantly by the single party, AKP for 8 years now since 2002.

These guys are "fans of Palestinians" and it's Turkey where since 2007, 134 workers have died - and been dying on a nearly monthly basis- in Tuzla shipyard and there is nothing fixed ever since. It's Turkey where 19 mining workers have died in a mine 2 weeks ago of whom our prime minister spoke "this is not the first time a mining accident happening".

Considering this "fandom" along with the bitter situation of which caring for your very own citizens is "less favorable", this could have been avoided. But it's all politics right now and things get stuck when we presume "what if the government alignment had nothing to do with Palestinians ?".

It still is another murder show demonstrated by Israel

All of this, yes. I think I agree. Murderous show by Israel, but let's not forget who sought to have these activists killed -at least pitted in direct confrontation with Israel - and to what political intent.

[LeftEyeNine]

So, you do think they should look away when a fleet heads directly to Hamas-country? Who have vowed to destroy Israel? Kidding me? I would also justify it if they sank them all.

Why do you want to miss the point, I wonder.

An UNARMED CIVILIAN ship with ALL CIVILIANS ON BOARD can be captured by the army WITHOUT OPENING FIRE AT ANYONE as soon as the ship penetrates YOUR COUNTRY'S WATERS. It's all problem-free and legitimate.

A Norwegian Org member, (Spartakus in IRC) told me that there were Norwegian activists on board as well. So you must have vowed to destroy Israel if you're on that ship.

Sorry but how different is that from falling into the same pit as the antisemitists ?

All of this, yes. I think I agree. Murderous show by Israel, but let's not forget who sought to have these activists killed -at least pitted in direct confrontation with Israel - and to what political intent.

That's what can be debated on -I'd agree with you as well, as I implied in my previous post addressing you. However the common sense tells me that there is a priority to be considered right now. What could be more important than human life ?

[Fragony]

let's not forget who sought to have these activists killed -at least pitted in direct confrontation with Israel - and to what political intent.

That as well. If they would have unloaded in Israel so the goods could be inspected none of this would have happened.

edit not missing the point, they left them no other choice. This is a war.

[Andres]

That as well. If they would have unloaded in Israel so the goods could be inspected none of this would have happened.

If they had done that, they would not have been guilty of piracy, indeed. Alas, they did something else.

Would Israel have allowed the supplies to reach their intended destination (assuming it were not weapons, but indeed humanitarian aid, like food and medicines)?