Israel kills to Maintain Blockade

[Fragony]

I wonder how would the soldiers feel if they saw through a live feed seeing a boat of pro-Jewish people be boarded and more than a dozen people be killed by Nazi soldiers. They would all cry "OUTRAGE! ANTI-SEMITISM!", now they have no problem in doing that to other peoples.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, I wouldn't like that either. So they should just look the other way when a fleet heads directly to Ghaza? Where is all that outrage when Egypt fills smuggling tunnels with poisenous gas, yeah they do that. They also build walls. Nobody cares.

[Andres]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, I wouldn't like that either. So they should just look the other way when a fleet heads directly to Ghaza? Where is all that outrage when Egypt fills smuggling tunnels with poisenous gas, yeah they do that. They also build walls. Nobody cares.

We all learned in elementary school that two wrongs don't make a right.

Feel free to open a thread about Egypt and their horrendous acts and I'll be as outraged as I am here.

However, that doesn't make this recent action of Israel any less a violation of international law nor does it make the blockade of Gaza any less a violation of international law.

But go ahead, if you must, with the argument "but they're doing it too, and worse!" It's not very compelling, though.

[Fragony]

So, you do think they should look away when a fleet heads directly to Hamas-country? Who have vowed to destroy Israel? Kidding me? I would also justify it if they sank them all.

[LeftEyeNine]

So, you do think they should look away when a fleet heads directly to Hamas-country? Who have vowed to destroy Israel? Kidding me? I would also justify it if they sank them all.

Why do you want to miss the point, I wonder.

An UNARMED CIVILIAN ship with ALL CIVILIANS ON BOARD can be captured by the army WITHOUT OPENING FIRE AT ANYONE as soon as the ship penetrates YOUR COUNTRY'S WATERS. It's all problem-free and legitimate.

A Norwegian Org member, (Spartakus in IRC) told me that there were Norwegian activists on board as well. So you must have vowed to destroy Israel if you're on that ship.

Sorry but how different is that from falling into the same pit as the antisemitists ?

All of this, yes. I think I agree. Murderous show by Israel, but let's not forget who sought to have these activists killed -at least pitted in direct confrontation with Israel - and to what political intent.

That's what can be debated on -I'd agree with you as well, as I implied in my previous post addressing you. However the common sense tells me that there is a priority to be considered right now. What could be more important than human life ?

[tibilicus]

So, you do think they should look away when a fleet heads directly to Hamas-country? Who have vowed to destroy Israel? Kidding me? I would also justify it if they sank them all.

I'm sorry but your blinded by your own biased attitudes to anything Muslim related again. It was carrying basic supplies. Not weapons of mass destruction. Many on board were western citizens looking to their bit, it's no different from any other civil rights movement. well, arguably a bit, but I think those on board had good intentions, many wern't "EVIL MUZLIMZ" as you try and portray such aid convoys as.

Once again Fragony's ridiculous anti-Muslim views lead him to state that he would justify the death of all those aboard the ships. You really don't know where the line is, do you?

[Fragony]

I'm sorry but your blinded by your own biased attitudes to anything Muslim related again. It was carrying basic supplies. Not weapons of mass destruction. Many on board were western citizens looking to their bit, it's no different from any other civil rights movement. well, arguably a bit, but I think those on board had good intentions, many wern't "EVIL MUZLIMZ" as you try and portray such aid convoys as.

Once again Fragony's ridiculous anti-Muslim views lead him to state that he would justify the death of all those aboard the ships. You really don't know where the line is, do you?

I know that you know how I think, I know you think that you know that.

but no

[tibilicus]

I know that you know how I think, I know you think that you know that.

but no

I'm sorry Fragony but you've never offered anything to suggest that your thought pattern is anything but hate related when it comes to the middle east. Just a couple of pages back you stated you would be happy if all the ships were sunk, and all those on board died.

Maybe if you actually explain your thought process instead of offering your musings in a form which advocates the death of civilians, I might be prepared to listen to you. You seem to paint most Muslims/Arabs with the same brush, did it ever occur to you those on board the convoy might be doing what they're doing because they think it is right? Contrary to your opinion, most on board were there to do what they saw as helping those in need, they didn't see themselves as part of some Muslim plot to shatter the very foundations of Israel and western society, despite your claims.

Even if you do hate them, how can you justify wanting all those on board to die?

[KukriKhan]

Q: Is it locked in concrete, dead certain, everyone agrees, that this action took place in "International Waters", and not Israeli Territorial Waters, or its (Israel's) Contiguous Zone, or Exclusive Economic Zone?

All those zones, defined by international Maritime Law, represent various levels (and distances from the shoreline) of rights of sea control to sovereign nations. We should take care in throwing around the term "International Waters", and therefore asserting International judgment rights, when those jurisdictions are not clear in this case.

All that said: my condolences to the dead and their relatives. That better, less-violent methods of enforcing blockades couldn't be found is a shame. I had come to think that the Israeli military had come closer to conducting this kind of action casualty-free. Wishful thinking, I guess - not reality. If they were fired upon as they report, why do we not see Israeli wounded among the injured?

[tibilicus]

You lefties and your simple minds..

Me the one with a simple mind? I'm afraid your the one who must suffer some form of mental retardation if you think I'm a leftie. Evidently I used to be more left-wing than I am now but ask any of the UK posters here, Furunculus, PCV, Beskar ect or read some of my posts and you will find I'm actually centre-right on the political spectrum.

Oh no Frag, there's a clear difference between my idea of centre-right thinking and yours. I try and base mine on rational and logic, although evidently I will be the first to admit that I'm not a model poster, I don't claim to be either. The difference is that I try and reason when coming to a conclusion, indeed I've tried to reason on this and as I stated previously, my position still stands, I have no problem with Israel checking ships, as long as they do it properly. My views are based on the evidence before me, yours are based on a hate for anything Arab/Muslim.

By the way, it's good to see you say you support the people of Iran in your signature. I wonder what they would make of your views about their religion. I imagine you wouldn't last to long in central Tehran, after you denounce their religion as wacky.

[LeftEyeNine]

LEN's first Tweet ever:

"Advocation of civilians getting killed by a state army on a civilian ship in international waters by bringing in "Hamas wants to destroy Israel" statement."

[Jolt]

Hamas wants to destroy Israel

And what the does that have to do with attacking a convoy in international waters? Was the convoy going to supply Hamas or the Palestinian people? Or you don't really care enough to make the distinction?

I wouldn't like that either. So they should just look the other way when a fleet heads directly to Ghaza?

A humanitarian aid fleet? Yes. They should definitely look the other way. They can inspect shipment for weaponry or other internationally Palestinian embargo'd items. They can inspect it on the Israeli-Palestinian EEZ. Never on international waters. On international waters, Israeli can't do to anyone.

Where is all that outrage when Egypt fills smuggling tunnels with poisenous gas, yeah they do that. They also build walls. Nobody cares.

My extreme outrage lies with the fact that while Egypt has the sovereignty and jurisdiction to protect its territory as it so pleases, Israel simply doesn't give a fig about International Law. A violation of a State in International Law against another State cannot simply be construed as a bilateral matter, but by as a universal matter, as by violating universally accorded principals, Israel is attacking each and every nation that is bound by those agreements, in short, every single nation represented on the United Nations. Moreso, it inclusively took the lives of foreign citizens in an area it has absolutely no jurisdiction on.