ESC: Should I be fined 15k for misbehaving at a friends barberque?

[HoreTore]

The "who's got the crappiest english"-contest is over for now, and while I can't say I heard any of the songs, I did hear about Jimmy Jump:



He's the guy with the black shirt and red hat

And for that stunt, he's fined 15.000 NOK. Which if you ask me, is absurd. Not the amount, but the fact that he got punished for that. Why on earth should something like that be illegal? He didn't injure anyone, he didn't threaten anyone, he didn't cause any damage whatsoever. Did he act like a douche? Sure, but so what? Why on earth should it be a crime to behave like a douche?

A few weeks back, I was at my cousins confirmation, during which my uncle held a speech. What if I had ruined his speech by acting like an idiot? Would I get an invitation to the next family gathering? Doubtful. But would they call the police? And if so, would the police give me a 15k fine for ruining my uncles speech? If not, why on earth are we giving this guy a 15k fine, how is what he did any worse than ruining my uncle's speech?

ESC can decide that they don't want him near any future finals, but that's hardest reaction he should face. And he should certainly not get any reaction from the state.

[gaelic cowboy]

Didnt they have to replay the song surely that cost several thousands of NOK or more, there's your reason for the fine subjecting the continent of Europe to the Spanish entry two times.

[Ronin]

this guy has been pulling crap like this for years now.....
one of these days the security detail should just take him behind the building where he pulled his last prank and just break his legs....enough is enough moron!

[HoreTore]

this guy has been pulling crap like this for years now.....
one of these days the security detail should just take him behind the building where he pulled his last prank and just break his legs....enough is enough moron!

What damage did he cause....?

[gaelic cowboy]

What damage did he cause....?

Well he cost the broadcaster thousands in wasted time is that enough for ya

[HoreTore]

Well he cost the broadcaster thousands in wasted time is that enough for ya

There was no additional cost to NRK whatsoever. The bloated cost for the event is just as bloated as was predicted.

[Ronin]

What damage did he cause....?

he annoyed me...

[Rhyfelwyr]

IMO he should face the death penalty for disturbing such a performance.

[gaelic cowboy]

IMO he should face the death penalty for disturbing such a performance.

Yes quite right he interupted the poor spanish fellow dieing on stage himself.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Bah. Whether one enjoys the ESC or not, this guy is a douchebag. These performers have worked hard to perform their show, people are trying to watch it, so why ruin it. Let him learn how to sing / dance too if he craves the attention, don't steal it from somebody else.

[HoreTore]

Bah. Whether one enjoys the ESC or not, this guy is a douchebag. These performers have worked hard to perform their show, people are trying to watch it, so why ruin it. Let him learn how to sing / dance too if he craves the attention, don't steal it from somebody else.

True.

But why should this be a criminal offence?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sounds like trespassing. Therefore, the state should punish him.

CR

[Louis VI the Fat]

True.

But why should this be a criminal offence?

He has not been sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines. Just a fine of 15.000 NOK. Sounds not unreasonable to me.


That is € 1850. Which is, I think, worth $1.50 or one pound sterling.

[Lemur]

It's Soy Bomb all over again.

[HoreTore]

Sounds like trespassing. Therefore, the state should punish him.

CR

Nope - he paid for his entry, just like everyone else did.

He has not been sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines. Just a fine of 15.000 NOK. Sounds not unreasonable to me.

So you would agree that it would be fair to fine you 15k because you chose "Louis VI the Fat" as your nickname? I mean.... it's not like you're being sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines, right?

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. There's not such thing as being "a little pregnant".

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. There's not such thing as being "a little pregnant".

What if he ran onto the soccer field when it looked like your team was going to score a goal?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Nope - he paid for his entry, just like everyone else did.



So you would agree that it would be fair to fine you 15k because you chose "Louis VI the Fat" as your nickname? I mean.... it's not like you're being sentenced to 25 years in the saltmines, right?

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished. There's not such thing as being "a little pregnant".

The Law is Sacred, if he broke it he should pay the mandated penalty.

In this case his tresspassed on stage and disrupted an international broadcast intended (however misguidely) to promote pan-European good will. For doing this he was fined about £1500, which is quite litterally a small price to pay for being on international television.

[InsaneApache]

Wait! The police fined him? Blimey talk about doing away with the justice system.

As for the guy they should guillotine him and hand over his fine to the Norwegian King.

[HoreTore]

What if he ran onto the soccer field when it looked like your team was going to score a goal?

It COULD be presented as equal to shouting fire in a crowded theatre, but only at big matches with packed stadiums. Football stadiums here are rarely filled up more than 60%(with a few notable exceptions), so the risk is minimal in those cases. No fine. As for being about to score a goal; how on earth is that relevant?

The Law is Sacred, if he broke it he should pay the mandated penalty.

The law is sacred, you say? Hitler acknowledges your support for his racial purity laws. Damn those jews!

In this case his tresspassed on stage and disrupted an international broadcast intended (however misguidely) to promote pan-European good will. For doing this he was fined about £1500, which is quite litterally a small price to pay for being on international television.

So, if I enter an area of my friends barberque that I'm not supposed to be at, I will be facing a 15k fine....?

Wait! The police fined him? Blimey talk about doing away with the justice system.

It's called "forenklet forelegg". The police fines him, he gets to decide whether or not he accepts. If he does, he pays. If he doesn't, then it'll go to court. No sense in paying judges and lawyers when everyone is in agreement.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The law is sacred, you say? Hitler acknowledges your support for his racial purity laws. Damn those jews!

The Law must be Sacred, otherwise you have Tyranny; Solon knew this, which is why he went into self-imposed exile. In the case of Hitler, he subverted the Law to gain power and thus his own laws are invalid. If you want to discuss how the Law must always reflect morality, that is another topic.

So, if I enter an area of my friends barberque that I'm not supposed to be at, I will be facing a 15k fine....?

Is your friends barbecue an internationally televised event design to promote pan-European goodwill?

[KukriKhan]

So HoreTore your position is that the fine is too big? Or that he shouldn't be fined at all?

[InsaneApache]

How the hell did Godwin get a mention in a thread about a divvy jumping on stage?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It COULD be presented as equal to shouting fire in a crowded theatre, but only at big matches with packed stadiums. Football stadiums here are rarely filled up more than 60%(with a few notable exceptions), so the risk is minimal in those cases. No fine. As for being about to score a goal; how on earth is that relevant?

Oh, these "bite the bullet" arguments are so pointless. Perhaps you don't care for sports in the slightest, HoreTore, but many people do. And their enjoyment of the game is being ruined. If that doesn't make it a crime, and it would have to be a situation of life and death, then you have no grounds for objecting to a fine since he isn't being killed or injured, it is only his joy that is being harmed.

[HoreTore]

Is your friends barbecue an internationally televised event design to promote pan-European goodwill?

I don't see why that is relevant at all. If something is illegal to do, then it should be illegal to do no matter how many people are watching you.

So HoreTore your position is that the fine is too big? Or that he shouldn't be fined at all?

That to fine him is barbaric. He should be banned by ESC, but the state should not take any action. This is a dispute between two civilians, it should not involve the state.

Oh, these "bite the bullet" arguments are so pointless. Perhaps you don't care for sports in the slightest, HoreTore, but many people do. And their enjoyment of the game is being ruined. If that doesn't make it a crime, and it would have to be a situation of life and death, then you have no grounds for objecting to a fine since he isn't being killed or injured, it is only his joy that is being harmed.

No, a fine is violence of the state towards a person. I happen to love football, and I fully stand by the FA's and clubs right to ban such a guy from any future events. But I do not see how a state can punish him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, a fine is violence of the state towards a person. I happen to love football, and I fully stand by the FA's and clubs right to ban such a guy from any future events. But I do not see how a state can punish him.

That's incorrect...that isn't what "violence" means.

[HoreTore]

That's incorrect...that isn't what "violence" means.

Uhm.... Yes, it is? Fines and jail are state violence that we accept in order to keep the peace.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't see why that is relevant at all. If something is illegal to do, then it should be illegal to do no matter how many people are watching you.

the Norwegian State is hosting the event, so he has embarressed and inconvenienced the Norwegian State.

That to fine him is barbaric. He should be banned by ESC, but the state should not take any action. This is a dispute between two civilians, it should not involve the state.

Well, it does involve the state, because the ESC is not a "private" event, it is a diplomatic one.

Uhm.... Yes, it is? Fines and jail are state violence that we accept in order to keep the peace.

Technically correct, it falls under "Soverign Violence" (the right of the State to inflict harm which would otherwise be illegal) and is twinned with "Sacred Law" (The Right of the State to create invioable rules which all citizens/subjects must obey).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Uhm.... Yes, it is? Fines and jail are state violence that we accept in order to keep the peace.

Fines aren't violent.

But if we are defining words how we want, than I shall say that this man violently disrupted my viewing of the soccer game, and thus committed an act of violence, punishable by violently sending him a bill in the mail.

[HoreTore]

the Norwegian State is hosting the event, so he has embarressed and inconvenienced the Norwegian State.

Uhm, no? The event was held by NRK, not the state. Quite remarkably, this event didn't get a single penny from the state...

[Louis VI the Fat]

He did not commit an offence(in my eyes), and thus should not be punished.

Mwah, I dunno.

I'm all for a bit of sensation. This would've been cool if it was Metallica at a rock concert. It woud've been fine if he was a streaker at a football match.


But something about this feels misplaced, it all just looks annoying. A bit like Kanye(?) at those awards. 'Your song is cool and all, and Imma let you continue, but first I'm going to ruin your big event for you'