Changing all unit HP 1--> 2?

[Intranetusa]

Hi there,
Do you think it would be a good idea to do this:

Change all regular unit HPs from 1 to 2, and change the Gaestate HP from 2 to 3 (or any unit with 2 hp to 3 hp).

Increase cavalry unit HP to either 2 or 3, proportional to the infantry

Increase chariot HP proportionally, and elephants as well.

This way, I'm thinking I can still have the Gaestate as an uber unit, but they would no longer be the unrealistically crazy unarmored unit that chews through 3 of my best armored units? (I realize they can easily be taken out via missiles to the back, or cavalry charge, but I just wanted them to be more "killable" to regular infantry)

This way, Gaestate only has 50% more HP than regular infantry, instead of having double their HP.

I know I might have to double all attack values or lethality as well...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Missiles would become useless...

[MButcher]

I played that way for a while, and I agree with Brave Brave Sir Robin. Horse archers and other missile units are dramatically reduced in effectiveness. They're not unplayable, just less effective.

On the other hand, infantry battles play out in what seems to be a more realistic way. Units don't take many casualties until they route. Gaesatae and elephants remain about the same, with very little difference in strength.

[Zarax]

Cavalry effectiveness is reduced as well though.

[Aper]

The idea has its merit, but balancing the whole thing will be a Royal Pain in the Ass.

Anyway, I think the moddable "lethality" of the RTW EDU make possible realistic battles without raising the HPs, while the M2TW engine, having the "lethality" locked on 100% (1 hit = 1 kill) is more problematic: even in the "Real Combat" mod, that on the paper seems very good, casualties for winners are usually unrealistically high.

So, I think a mod like this is more desiderable for M2TW rather than for RTW.

[Cute Wolf]

nah, 2 HP compared for 1 (of most units), are good way to give the "Skill Gap" between them, as 2 HP units could be expected to charge against missile storms, but 1 HP unit can't....

if you want to made EB in 2 HP system, first, double the lethality of melee weapons, and second, increase arrow projectile damage by 2, increase sling projectile damage by 1, and increase javelin damage by 7 (javelins is supposed to better close range killer - too low and you'd found your akontistai become pretty useless)

OH: and give archers and horse archers more ammo too

[Cute Wolf]

you can't kill gaesatae?

use some sphendenotai (with chevron is better), run behind them, made em fought a high defense melee unit, and pelt them with stone from behind ==> EPIC WIN

[Intranetusa]

I played that way for a while, and I agree with Brave Brave Sir Robin. Horse archers and other missile units are dramatically reduced in effectiveness. They're not unplayable, just less effective.

On the other hand, infantry battles play out in what seems to be a more realistic way. Units don't take many casualties until they route. Gaesatae and elephants remain about the same, with very little difference in strength.

Yeh, but if I double the attack of missile values, it should cancel out right?

I once played around with missile values, and when I set them to 20 or 30, they virtually owned everyone - even post-Marian Roman testudos. They also killed elephants in seconds.


I was thinking that since I doubled the HP, I'll just double the attack for every unit. I'm not going to bother dealing with doubling the lethality or missile ammo since that'll be more complicated than I'd like.

I think merely increasing the attack by a lot (without increasing the lethality) should be enough to balance out doubling HPs right?

The idea has its merit, but balancing the whole thing will be a Royal Pain in the Ass.

Anyway, I think the moddable "lethality" of the RTW EDU make possible realistic battles without raising the HPs, while the M2TW engine, having the "lethality" locked on 100% (1 hit = 1 kill) is more problematic: even in the "Real Combat" mod, that on the paper seems very good, casualties for winners are usually unrealistically high.

So, I think a mod like this is more desiderable for M2TW rather than for RTW.

Well, my main issue is how Gaestate are so much superior to even elite units since they never die, and how chariots die so fast (even when I'm running them through and not engaging in melee). And how even elite cavalry will die to mediocre non-spearmen infantry if engaged in melee since they both have 1 HP.

Raising regular troops HPs to 2 and cavalry to say 3 will make it even out better, while not giving them any significant bonuses "relative" to other troop types.