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  1. #1
    Mercury Member Thermal's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrddraal View Post
    Hmm... I wouldn't be so sure about it being easy
    Yeah, they have to know what to do in every situation, consider where its opponent is and combat them effectively, a lot of thought processes. Then they must consider terrain, weather, whether to keep units in reserve or not.

  2. #2
    Clan Takiyama Member Sp00n's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    TBH as Shogun is on a much smaller scale, they should have way more time to concentrate on things like AI and balancing, I dont think the AI is that bad in Empire its certainly improved massively over the last 10 years and Shogun should be the easiest setting to get the AI right in.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: AI

    I doubt that the AI will improve, though due to the smaller map and greater similarity between factions/unit rosters, there will no doubt be a perceived improvement.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

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  4. #4

    Default Re: AI

    My guess is that it will not improve and will most likely be worse. This is not the same group of people that made the original.

  5. #5
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa View Post
    I doubt that the AI will improve, though due to the smaller map and greater similarity between factions/unit rosters, there will no doubt be a perceived improvement.
    Unlike Empires "Everyone is a Line Infantry with a different coloured coat" ?
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  6. #6
    Mercury Member Thermal's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Unlike Empires "Everyone is a Line Infantry with a different coloured coat" ?
    These aren't line infantry, a simple unit roster worked on the first game, so it can work in this one.

  7. #7
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    The unit roster should depend on what time period they start.If it is before 16th century. Samurai armies were mainly constructed of Mounted Samurais/Kachi´s armed with yumi bows and levied Ashigaru´s mainly armed with Naginata´s and Yumi bows. Sohei warrior Monks were around from early on so they should be present. If the game starts during 16th century. There should be mounted and dismounted Samurai /Kachi´s, with variety of weapons, but mainly using Yari spear. Ashigaru armed with Yari or Nagae Yari spears,Yumi bows and or Teppo arquebuses. The Sohei would still be present+ Ikko Ikki leagues consisting of peasants,ronin and Soheis were force to be reckoned with. For example Oda Nobunaga used lot of his time fighting these forces. Also at the end of the period many Samurai /Kachi´s adopted teppo as their weapon creating sort of Dragoons from themselves, that moved on horseback, but mainly fought on foot. Certain addition could be Wakou pirates that raided both Western Japan and coast of China. There could be interesting variations for their weaponry, mixing Japanese and continental weaponry. I think all and all there are lot of interesting variations for CA to consider.
    Last edited by Kagemusha; 06-04-2010 at 15:13.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Unlike Empires "Everyone is a Line Infantry with a different coloured coat" ?
    I'm not speaking of purely cosmetic similarities. ETW was similar to MTW, RTW and M2TW in that it consisted of hundreds of faction specific units with widely differing stats based on the typical large Eurasian map, where provinces are practically kingdoms. This huge array of units makes it virtually imposible to balance the game and makes it easy for the player to exploit the inept AI factions.

    The original STW is based on a smaller scale map with individual provinces rather than i.e. "Ireland", "Denmark" and "Aragon" as provinces. Unit rosters in STW are identical per faction. Factions differ only in their positioning on the map, colour, faction bonus (i.e. discount ninja or cheaper castles, etc) and selection of Daimyos available throughout the campaign. Everything else is the same. This is why Shogun worked well and was balanced, where later titles did not work so well and required balancing through mods.

    If S2TW is anything like this, it will probably be the best offering from CA since STW itself. If CA go down the faction specific uber unit route (i.e. "toy units" such as Mori specific monk units, Takeda specific cavalry etc), then they will likely ruin the game balance and thus the game itself. They way to add "flavour" to the game is to give subtle advantages and disadvantages to each faction, such as recruitment cost bonuses - not the faction specific uber units that were introduced in MTW and have persisted ever since.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  9. #9
    Clan Takiyama Member Sp00n's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    Quote Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa View Post
    I'm not speaking of purely cosmetic similarities. ETW was similar to MTW, RTW and M2TW in that it consisted of hundreds of faction specific units with widely differing stats based on the typical large Eurasian map, where provinces are practically kingdoms. This huge array of units makes it virtually imposible to balance the game and makes it easy for the player to exploit the inept AI factions.

    The original STW is based on a smaller scale map with individual provinces rather than i.e. "Ireland", "Denmark" and "Aragon" as provinces. Unit rosters in STW are identical per faction. Factions differ only in their positioning on the map, colour, faction bonus (i.e. discount ninja or cheaper castles, etc) and selection of Daimyos available throughout the campaign. Everything else is the same. This is why Shogun worked well and was balanced, where later titles did not work so well and required balancing through mods.

    If S2TW is anything like this, it will probably be the best offering from CA since STW itself. If CA go down the faction specific uber unit route (i.e. "toy units" such as Mori specific monk units, Takeda specific cavalry etc), then they will likely ruin the game balance and thus the game itself. They way to add "flavour" to the game is to give subtle advantages and disadvantages to each faction, such as recruitment cost bonuses - not the faction specific uber units that were introduced in MTW and have persisted ever since.
    Coulnt of said it better tbh, gone is the confusion of mass units and different army types.
    Last edited by Sp00n; 06-04-2010 at 14:47.
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  10. #10
    Pleasing the Fates Senior Member A Nerd's Avatar
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    Default Re: AI

    A samurai is a samurai is a samurai. I agree that similar fighting styles will lead to more interesting and balanced battles. Slight monetary and building time perks would definately be better than faction specific units. Such is the charm of this condensed campaign and war mechanic. Hopefully the AI can build nice balances based on what he sees on his borders vs. a spam of cost effective and/or tactically adept units based on what statistics favor in terms of victory. Hopefully this Sun Tzu thing isn't some algebra formula!
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