Shogun II - Yay or Nay Poll

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Nay. How often do you need to be burned before you learn to keep your bloody hand away from the fire?

[ProphetBuntaro_of_TW]

I have been away from TW a long time. I might come back for this. I still have money in my pocket from all the other games I didn't buy.

[Discoman]

Considering ETW got worse with the Patches I think I'll avoid this till I know its gameplay is concrete and people can only say good things about it.

[Ed TW]

Yay, I'd be happy if they kept everything the same-Clans, Units, Music...etc.
All's they need to do is tune up the new graphics.
I wonder if the Geisha is going to be as deadly in this one?

[Lucius Verus]

I'll not buy, wait for the next TW game and I hope it will be Rome 2

[Tempiic]

Oh, I'll buy it just like I bought the other titles.

But that is the only certainity.
It would be nice if MP would hold my attention longer than a month once more.
I already know SP won't. But we'll see :)

[jodmeister]

Cannot wait for this.....10yrs ago I bought the original....this will be awesome.

JOD.

[Swoosh So]

With multiplayer chat foyer ill buy it

Without ill pass

[AggonyDuck]

Yup, can't wait for it.

[Shigemasa Oyamada]

Can't...Resist...The...Urge...to...destroy...armies...of...Samurai...with...Arquebuses...

[Furunculus]

working on the assumption that they will screw over the modding community yet again, whilst lieing through their teeth that this will be the "most moddable game they have yet made", means that i probably won't bother.

[Gregoshi]

working on the assumption that they will screw over the modding community yet again, whilst lieing through their teeth that this will be the "most moddable game they have yet made", means that i probably won't bother.

Where did you read that? From everything I've seen, they are saying it won't be moddable, so you are dead wrong - unless...

And why so hostile Furunculus? It's only a game. The whole "developer is lying" mentality has always bugged me. Why would a developer lie about a feature they have no intention of putting in the final product? Haven't we all made stuff that didn't turn out how we originally envisioned it either because of time or problems we hadn't forseen? I have a pile of wood in the basement that was supposed to be a nice shelf unit for my wife's bathroom stuff complete with holes to conveniently hold her hair dryer and brushes. It was gorgeous in my head but turned out pretty crappy looking and so I abandoned it. However, my wife doesn't give me the "liar!" look everytime she sees me because she didn't get her shelves. The conclusion? Furunculus, you either need to relax it bit or I need to marry you.

Hmmm, it is a little early in a TW game development cycle for my "give CA a break" speech.

[Furunculus]

they certainly made such statements during the development of empire and napoleon, and where are the new campaign maps around which total conversions could build there setting? nowhere.

medieval total war was pure genius for the creative freedom it left the modding community, and CA traded on that good will while crippling modding in later titles to mere tinkering, presumably because their lips are now firmly latched to the hind-teat of the DLC paystream.

if CA have come out and said clearly that we can expect no modding support in STW2 then fair enough, they are being honest, and i will build enthusiasm and anticipation for the game based soley on its gameplay merits, which will be great no doubt, but i will not be strung along by the nose again.

such honesty would be appreciated, and would do much to transform bitterness into past fact rather than present reality.

[Martok]

if CA have come out and said clearly that we can expect no modding support in STW2 then fair enough, they are being honest, and i will build enthusiasm and anticipation for the game based soley on its gameplay merits, which will be great no doubt, but i will not be strung along by the nose again.

such honesty would be appreciated, and would do much to transform bitterness into past fact rather than present reality.

As a matter of fact, Furunculus, CA already *has* have come out and flatly stated there will be no modding support for Shogun 2. (There was a mild uproar here regarding the issue a couple months ago.) So there you go!

[Furunculus]

a stupid decision, but at least they're honest, so fair enough.

[Martok]

Yeah I don't agree with it either, but at least they were up-front about it this time. Better that, than promising modding tools/support that then never materializes.

[Servius]

I couldn't take this survey in good conscious. I have no idea what the game will be like. Based on CA's track record, the CAI, DAI, and BAI will be pretty dumb.

The BAI will be barely competent, but won't be able to overcome a disadvantage in numbers. It won't make strategic use of terrain (this assumes the battle maps will actually have some, as opposed to RTW, M2TW, and much of ETW). It won't divide it's forces, set up skirmishers, etc. I almost never fight outnumbered in a TW game, so I can't say if the AI knows how to envelop.

The DAI will be obstinate and have a completely unrealistic understanding of the relative value of demands and offerings. In ETW, the AI would offer you one tech that would take you 2 turns to research and demand 3 techs that took a total of 10 turns to research. If you renegotiated for an equitable trade, it would refuse. You could have a nation entirely bottled up, all ports blockaded, all fleets destroyed, and just pick their outlying regions appart at your leasure. When the AI finally starts offering peace, it makes demands of you, rather than offering something to sweeten the deal. DarthMod made it a bit smarter/more reasonable, but the vanilla DAIs have always been on drugs.

The CAI has mostly been made competent. Armies are generally mixed, a decent number (though still a majority) of armies are lead by actual generals, there tend not to be the 10s of little raiding parties constantly wandering around your territory. But you still couldn't say the CAI makes the most efficient use of its military or industrial resources. The Empire AI would put religious buildings on Wealthy towns and factories on very poor ones. It finally learned to embark armies on ships but still seems incapable of understanding amphibious landings. If you garrison your ports, you are free from naval invasions.

As far as bugs, there will probably be a few, but hopefully not a ton. In ETW, I'd say 90% or more of the stuff worked as intended. And lets be fair, the TW games are WAY more complex than any FPS, sports, racing, platformer, shmup, action, or arcade game. Only some of the huge RPGs like Fallout come close in terms of complexity, and usually that's more because of the scale than the depth.

The real question is will I buy it, and if so, when. Empire helped restore some of my faith in this franchise. The AI has always been the biggest problem, but at least with ETW, it added so much new stuff, and so significantly increased the scale, that even a barely competent AI can keep you busy. It added lots of new features, and the interface was vastly improved. But S2TW will not have that scale. It's just one island. It also won't have that many units, or as many factions. All of those things will make the AI's job easier (fewer variables to weigh), but it will also not help mask a bad AI. Combat will also be simpler. The more RPS it is, the less grey there will be in unit roles, the easier it should be for an AI to know what units to use against your units.

I probably won't buy this on day one. I'll wait and see what orgahs with old "Join Dates" say. The closer this is to the original, the better. It really needs the Risk map back. I hope it brings back the foyer!

[SpencerH]

I was dissapointed with RTW, disgusted with M2TW, and havent purchased (or played) ETW or NTW. When I popped in here and saw that S2TW was on its way I was immediately elated. Then I saw the vid from Koln in the other thread. What's the strident announcers focus? Graphics, graphics, graphics! Oooh, it looks like a fps! One can 'upgrade' to fire arrows that can be used in a rainstorm. Personally, I dont play fps nor do I care about eye candy. I want to see improvements in the AI and some sign that CA are returning to the reasonably realistic tactical gameplay that made STW and MTW such brilliant games. I remain hopeful for S2TW at this point but before I purchase I'll "wait and see" as I did with ETW and NTW.

[al Roumi]

Shame I cannot vote "Nay, but I will buy it (becasue i'm a sucker). I'd like to think I will hold off a pre-order purchase and wait for things to be stable and the quality (or not) of the game confirmed by Orgahs and others, but I will probably be swayed by some pathetic DLC or other and be one of the turnips sat with a buggy game playing against a lobbotomised AI.

I truly want CA to go back to basics and make this as well as they can. I am not desperate to play a new product in the franchise if it is rushed or comes up chronicaly short of its ambition. Look how long it took Blizzard to deliver Starcraft2. Now if TW:S2 could have that degree of polish...

[phred]

Nay for me. After playing STW, MTW, RTW & M2TW, I think I can safely say that I am pretty much burned out on the Total War series.
Since the announcement I've installed RTW and M2TW, and I just couldn't get interested in playing either.
I'm giving the Welsh a try in Viking Invasion now - we'll see how long that lasts.

[Kas]

It better be good!

I waited 7 years or so for this...really...it better be good.

[Drisos]

Anything after S:TW could only disappoint me, ... But I must admit I'm very very curious how this one will turn out. I'll have to try a few battles, but if I like it, hell yeah I'll buy it. :)

[Lord of the Isles]

Nay for me too. I could be willing to change my mind if it gets great reviews from other Orgahs after the usual few months teething problems, but it would have to be great ones to make up for Steam.

[Julius_Nepos]

I voted Nay. However I wish there had been an additional option along the lines of "Nay - not until S2TW is selling for $4.99 in the bargain bin." It's not that I dislike Japanese history, I am merely 100% indifferent to it, and given CA's track record in recent history I'm not going to pay $59.99 for a game based upon an era and region I care nothing about knowing full well it will likely be horrifically bad until its had a years worth of patches. And of course with virtually no modding ability, most of the problems will be unfixable by the community.

So like I said, I have no reason to get this game unless its a bargain price. I don't hate the concept, I just have no interest in it whatsoever. Now, if this was something like Asia Total War, including India, Indonesia, China and what have you, or perhaps a Genghis: Total War, that would be an entirely different story. Alas, CA wasn't forward thinking enough to go that route, oh well.

[Magyar Khan]

for me stw2 will be a real break in believing CA and their propoganda machine..... if they dont manage to make this anniversary release very special esp multiplayerwise i have to give up..... and yes a genghis: total war will certainly result in buying another release as well :)

[AMP]

I will buy it because no other company is coming close to what TW is doing, so it's all I have in options right now and I don't think STW2 will be that bad. Other companies have tried and fail though... and the others out there are a bit different. TW remains the boss with no challengers right now.

They do say a lot of BS, but so do 90% of the gaming companies making promises they don't keep as well as hardly changing at all in some areas with their game.

As long as the gameplay is decent all is good... I never played the TW games for the ERA, historical accuracy, or realism. It's a game and not real life and will always be that, so for me it's mostly gameplay and balance. I do prefer some ERAs over another, but it comes down to how well the game plays in the end.

NTW is mostly a shoot out which isn't my thing, but it's a decent game and could be better. It's flaws and poor controls and much needed features might carry over the STW2 which has me worried the most.

[Tempiic]

Oh, I'll buy it just like I bought the other titles.

But that is the only certainity.
It would be nice if MP would hold my attention longer than a month once more.
I already know SP won't. But we'll see :)

Requoting myself, but it seems so far that NTW is doing well to keep my attention. So that is a promising thing for S2TW. But I can only agree with AMP and share his worry.

It's flaws and poor controls and much needed features might carry over the STW2 which has me worried the most.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm going to wait 8 months before buying it. By seeing how the community here reacts to it I know whether to buy it or not. Honesty, I'm annoyed at the lack of modding tools or support but it was to be expected. If the game is truly good and has amazing potential to be unlocked, someone, somewhere will make a modding tool and there will be mods of it. I enjoyed RTW and M2TW, but I couldn't even play Empire for a week before I gave up on it. I feel bad for the relative who bought it for me for my birthday.

Like I said in the frontroom, this game is close to being a do or die moment. If this game sucks, they have lost a lot of their fans, if it is good then they are making progress.

[phonicsmonkey]

After buying M2TW on release and struggling through all the various bugs until we finally got a decent game from the modding community I watched the community reaction to ETW carefully, deciding not to buy it until it was fully patched and seemed to be working correctly. So I finally bit the bullet and started playing it the other day and I'm glad I waited. I'll do the same with this game.

[antisocialmunky]

Can we have a Yay, but it will be really buggy.