Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-03-2010, 00:42

If Joooray were part of your group, Andross wouldn't have been able to wipe you out in two turns; it would have taken three. There would have been a chance that town lynches the one recruit, and then they lynch the other one, and then after you wipe out one last townie, you go into the endgame with one remaining Wolf member, thus it could have been a Star Wolf victory as mafia.

It wasn't guaranteed but it could have happened.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-03-2010, 01:12

Originally Posted by Secura

Something's been niggling away at me for a while now, particularly after reading the role PMs; Krystal doesn't seem to have any abilities, but would she have gained any upon being recruited by either Peppy or Panther?

Krystal's lack of powers: Same as Katt; Katt didn't have any powers. Katt, Krystal, Pigma, Bill, General Pepper, ROB64, these characters all didn't have any abilities until the last minute, when I made ROB a limited reviver, game Pepper a valuable and vital ability, and gave Pigma and Bill some valuable powers that both contributed to the game's win.

Katt and Krystal, nothing against them, by the time I reached them I felt the game was balanced (Very balanced, as it turns out) and that the ability to join Star Wolf (and therefore, possibly become mafia) or join Star Fox (and gain access to the G-diffuser defense, and be another person who can vote with Star Fox and gain access to their powers and investigations) made them potential masons, and potential masons is a pretty potent role in and of itself in a game of cult recruitment, and especially in this game with the hand-me-down powers.

**wideyedwanderer** · 08-03-2010, 03:28

ATPG, thanks for your endgame commentary and your overall dedication to the game. This is like a dvd with bonus features. After you finish the movie, there's still more to watch. Except your commentary is more interesting than most bonus features in movies. I'm looking forward to more commentary and analysis!

**Nightbringer** · 08-03-2010, 05:08

Originally Posted by wideyedwanderer

ATPG, thanks for your endgame commentary and your overall dedication to the game. This is like a dvd with bonus features. After you finish the movie, there's still more to watch. Except your commentary is more interesting than most bonus features in movies. I'm looking forward to more commentary and analysis!

agree 100%

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-04-2010, 00:34

LYLAT WARS

ENDGAME COMMENTARY
Part IV

Turn by turn commentary

Day Six:

843: Beefy's troubles begin once more. Not being able to revive Falco again make townie mad. Now townie very angry. TOWNIE SMASH!!! TOWNIE SMASH!!!

854: I still have no flippin' clue what Khazaar is doing.

Voting for claimed Slippy?

So most of Star Wolf hops all over Khazaar. You'd think they'd be happy Slippy is getting voted, but they want to look very townie. Maybe they really thought Khazaar was scum for voting Slippy. Riddle me this, though: Andross is really going to take Slippy down.... by the vote?

My no think so, dat smells stinkowiff. Heesa rather murder Slip-Slip. Tink about it.

By post 880 everyone and their mother is voting for Khazaar. Nothing to analyze here at all..... nothing to even comment on really. So I'm going to talk about boobies.

A booby is a seabird in the genus Sula, part of the Sulidae family. Boobies are closely related to the gannets (Morus), which were formerly included in Sula. Boobies are large birds with long pointed wings and long bills. They hunt fish by diving from a height into the sea and pursuing their prey underwater. Facial air sacs under their skin cushion the impact with the water. Boobies are colonial breeders on islands and coasts. They normally lay one or more chalky-blue eggs on the ground or sometimes in a tree nest. Their name was possibly based on the Spanish slang term bubi, meaning "dunce", as these tame birds had a habit of landing on board sailing ships, where they were easily captured and eaten. Owing to this, boobies are often mentioned as having been caught and eaten by shipwrecked sailors, notably Captain Bligh of the Bounty and his adherents, during their famous voyage after being set adrift by Fletcher Christian and his followers.

This is what you get when there's no discussion, and massive bandwagons.

881: FLAXY!!! Overkill dude, OVERKILL!!! He's already dead! He's passed on! Bereft of life, he rests in peace!! He's gone on to join the choir invisible! THIS.... IS AN EX PARROT!!!

Post 888: This is the unluckiest post in the entire universe. Instead of whacking a potential Venomian recruit, Beefster, the CLAIMED TOWN REVIVER, goes down!!!

facepalm facepalm facepalm.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

889: A reasonable response. Why is it so impossible?

893: Even Secura is like.... woah.... are you sure, dude?

903: Beefy's defense. This is Beefy, and this is about as strongly as Beefy ever defends himself. If you're expecting more, you're expecting too much.

909: Even Khaan is like.... meh.

915: But no..... Falco opens up a can of whoop-ash all over Beefster. Vote Beefy, and that's the bottom line, because Stone Cold Falco said so!

Oh Beefy.... I weep for thee.

927: Apreg knows that Beefy is innocent because he voted for Beefy once, and the vote was cancelled. But the soft claim does nothing, and still reveals him as a possible detective.

You can't soft claim here, Apreg! You're already exposing yourself, say the whole deal, or say nothing!

Official tally:

Beefy187: (21) JHT, TheFlax, Beskar, Joooray, CDF, Yaseikhaan, miotas, Secura, pevergreen, Skooma Addict, choxorn, Beefy187, Krill, DIY, Renata, ATPGood, landlubber, hell_hound, Frozen in Ice, shlin28, civplayah

Khazaar: (5) Double A, Diana, WEW, ArpeggiateTHIS, Nictel

Psychonaut: pevergreen
hellhound: Chaotix
Skooma Addict: Psychonaut
Double A: Khazaar
Khazaar: Autolycus

Abstain: Nightbringer

NOT VOTING: NONE!!!

And Beefy falls victim to one of the biggest and most epic fail wagons of all time. But I understand why Romanic went after him. Arpeg might have been more vocal, but really, the blame game is not one I want to play here. Everyone who joined this wagon, especially once it got epically huge, all shares a bit of the blame. Andross was laughing their ta-tas off, and even Star Wolf was opening up the celebratory wine. It was a good day to be evil, and a demoralizing day to be a townie.

Night Six

choxorn (Fox McCloud) defends JHT
DIY (Peppy Hare) scans Double A
Double A (Slippy Toad) scans
Beskar (Wolf O'Donnell) investigates Yaseikhaan
Cultured Drizzt Fan (Panther Caroso) scans Arpeg
civplayah (Andrew Oikonny/Andross) converts Skooma Addict and kills Renata
TheFlax cannot do anything yet
Skooma Addict Just joined.

Results-
chox defends JHT (success)
DIY finds Double A is slippy (success)
Double A did not scan anyone.
Beskar finds out Yaseikhaan is a Cornerian (success)
CDF finds out Arpeg is not Krystal
civplayah converts Skooma Addict and kills Renata (success)

Overall a successful night phase for several teams. Andross is making progress again, Beskar is learning much through scans, Fox team is expanding and doing okay.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Day Seven

1021 Here, Arpeg claims Bill Grey, virtually guaranteeing he will die shortly. However, his work so far this game and the fact that the tally helps prove his story moves the lynch off of him and possibly in a better direction. Plus his "investigations" will be useful. He made it seven days, a fine time to claim.

The result was that people started voting for Khazaar because he wasn't purely townie according to Bill Grey.

1033 Khazaar's defense is short and to the point. He claims Venomian, and at the present time there's no reason not to believe him, especially if he could get scanned.

1058: Choxorn contends that (I am guessing) Khazaar frequently can't be bothered to vote, and thus he might be a good suspect. Well.... in my opinion, if someone doesn't vote often, then he probably will only vote to save himself or his mafia buddies if he's mafia. Or to avoid a WOG. Not voting is a handicap against the mafia, in a game with investigators. They will be forced to reveal themselves by unusual voting (basically any vote they make will be unusual, especially if it ends up sparing themselves or their mafia buddies, or they show up and suddenly vote someone you know is innocent... another mark against them). Because they aren't voting much, they also shouldn't be a high priority target for the mafia to murder. So investigating them might allow you to focus on the voting patterns of the living suspects.

If there are no investigators, then maybe consider lynching lurkers in the early rounds. That's my opinion, not mafia fact, so feel free to do the opposite and it might win games too.

1063: The mob turns against landlubber, who calmly suggests that he be investigated. And another wagon is deflected.

1064: Now we're talking. Beskar suggests to purposefully use Bill Grey's voting/investigation power against suspects who ask for it, in this case landlubber. I approve.

Wagon turns against suspect Frozen in Ice, who attempts to defend himself here.

It's too late though. Frozen in Ice is now Floating in Space.

Official tally:

Frozen: (10) Beskar, Diana, autolycus, ATPGood, Miotas, DIY, choxorn, Skooma, Psycho, Krill
Khazaar: (5) shlin28, landlubber, Chaotix, civplayah, TheFlax, Nightbringer [voted late]
landlubber: (2) WEW, CDF
Joooray: (2) Yaseikhaan, Secura
JHT: Joooray
Choxorn: pever
abstain: Hell_hound

NOT VOTING: (6) Double A, johnhughthom, Khazaar, Nictel, Stuck in Pi

Night Seven

choxorn (Fox McCloud) defends Double A
DIY (Peppy Hare) scans no one (G diffuser)
Double A (Slippy Toad) scans Khazaar
Beskar (Wolf O'Donnell) Kills Joooray
Cultured Drizzt Fan (Panther Caroso) scans Psychonaut
civplayah (Andrew Oikonny/Andross) investigates Chaotix and kills ArpeggiateTHIS
TheFlax Joins in killing ArpeggiateTHIS
Skooma Addict Joins in killing ArpeggiateTHIS

Double A defended successfully.
DIY uses G-diffuser successfully.
Double A scans Khazar, he is in fact Neutral.
Beskar kills Krystal
Chaotix is neutral, Andross sees.
Andross kills ArpeggiateTHIS

Comments:

Oh.... the worst move Star Wolf makes the entire game; vigilante killing someone they haven't scanned as being Krystal. Several people had been scanned by CDF.... and Beskar himself could scan and find Krystal's unique ship. His scans plus CDF's scans gave him plenty of folks to vig kill that were safely not Krystal.

Just not wise, as some of his mates pointed out. But, I suppose he was aggressively looking for Andross or converts. It was a calculated risk, and it blew up in his face.

Andross killing Bill Grey was a no-brainer.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Day Eight

1139: In what is clearly the most devastating post of the entire game, Renata declares that she doesn't read my write-ups.

I'm.... going to bed now.... to snuggle my hugga-bear and my bankie.

I...... AM..... WOUNDED!!!!

That does it. This commentary is over.

Show is over folks. That's right, I quit. I just can't take this kind of REJECTION!!!!

You think I am kidding?

....Why?

Why would you think that?

You're CRUEL!!!

....Just go....

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-04-2010, 00:51

....uh, continued.

1148: Hell hound doesn't speak much, but he has a point here. Why would the mafia be so silly as to vote for Star Fox?

Townies make moves based on not paying attention and lack of information. If it looks like an obviously silly move, it's not as likely to be a mafia move.

It's not dumb when a townie does it, because townies often have no reason to know better. Even if good reasons are hidden somewhere in the thread. Several times. Often times townies can't read everything. Mafia have multiple sets of eyes and can scan the thread much more thoroughly than any single townie can (except for me) and so therefore they rarely make silly moves that will get themselves lynched like that.

However, sometimes RL pressure, inactivity, lack of communication makes people kill Frozen in Ice for a second time, to really make sure he's dead.

but that's another story for another time and another post.

1182: After a massive Nictel wagon based on some of his odd votes, Khazaar votes for Diana, who legitimately is acting like the pseudo-scum that she is. But.... no reasons given, not much of a bandwagon forms.

So anyway. A relatively uneventful round, and Nictel gets lynched.

Tally

Nictel: (10) Beskar, Skooma, Diana, JHT, Yasei, CDF, pever, Miotas, Psycho, DIY
WEW: (3) Nightbringer, choxorn, Chaotix
Diana Abnoba: (2) Khazaar, TheFlax
Yaseikhaan: (1) Nictel
Skooma: (1) Double A
Beskar: (1) Krill
Krill: (1) landlubber

abstain: (2) civplayah, WEW

NOT VOTING: (checking) ATPGood, autolycus, hell_hound, shlin28, Secura

Night Eight

choxorn (Fox McCloud) defends Double A (FAILS)
DIY (Peppy Hare) scans pevergreen
Double A (Slippy Toad) scans no one, G-diffuser. (FAILS)
JHT- uses G-diffuser
Beskar (Wolf O'Donnell) Investigates Psychonaut (CDF)
Cultured Drizzt Fan (Panther Caroso) scans no one.
civplayah (Andrew Oikonny/Andross) Converts Khazaar, kills Double A through protection with TheFlax and Skooma Addict
TheFlax
Skooma Addict

This was the round that Andross showed his true strength; killing through protection AND G-diffuser, while converting Khazaar. This was a round of epic winnage for the Androssian Team, and I was clapping my hands furiously at the awesome.

Now Fox's screwed level is rising fast, and Andross team's dangerousness quotient is getting high. Wolf team has forgotten their earlier suspicion of Winston Hughes, though they lament civplayah's relative inactivity in the game and in the thread. I think they write him off as dead weight and just focus on everything else.

By miracle alone, Autolycus still lives, and this prevents Andross from recruiting out of control. His being alive was lucky lucky lucky.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Day Nine:

1223: Star Fox is getting the scum vibe from Diana. She's over-lurking, and it shows.

She gets a pretty large wagon on her. Voting for her so far is: Fox, Venomian, Cornerian, Peppy, General Pepper, Cornerian... and then Flax unleashes his Flax-fu all over Diana with this post:

1249: Flax unleashes a can of Canada Dry Ginger Ale all over Diana's hindquarters!!!

Oh no he di-in't? Oh yas he di-id! *snap, snap*

If it wasn't on before, it is now!

1253: Beskar shows up, aaaaaaaand the Diana wagon is REJECTED!!!

....or is it?

1268: Khazaar shows up and votes Diana, giving no reason.

Khazaar officially wins the most bizarre voting pattern award. This could have drawn more attention to him than necessary, but at least he's mafia now. He's allowed to vote badly at this point. Now bad votes are good votes.

Tally:

Krill: 8 (Beskar, CDF, Skooma, autoycus, TheFlax, landlubber, Nightbringer, hell_hound
Diana: 4 (Choxorn, DiY, Krill, Khazaar)
Beskar: 1 (pevergreen)
autolycus:1 (Secura)
Choxorn: 1 (WEW)

abstain: 1 (ATPGood)

Krill gets flushed for lack of better suspects. He was a cornerian.

Let's see who got voted: Pigma, Wolf, General Pepper, Fox McCloud, and the cornerian gets lynched. Androssians are miles away from getting voted. It's starting to get cold and grim for the townies. Secura outs herself this round, Fox is down to just a couple members, and Diana is getting pressured. Even General Pepper got some rare pressure this round.

I can't bear to watch what happens next....

Night Nine:

choxorn (Fox McCloud) defends DIY
DIY (Peppy Hare)
JHT
Beskar (Wolf O'Donnell) Kill Choxorn
Cultured Drizzt Fan (Panther Caroso)
civplayah (Andrew Oikonny/Andross) Kill JHT with Skooma, Flax and civplayah
TheFlax Kill JHT with Skooma, Flax and civplayah
Skooma Addict Kill JHT with Skooma, Flax and civplayah Convert Chaotix
Khazaar
Chaotix

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Uhhhh..... yeah......

Cry for HELP!!!!

Andross' power level is now OVER 9000!!!!! Wolf team is still alive and untouched.... Cornerian/Venomian teams are getting their butts handed to them now. It's not looking good, folks.

At this point, I start posting as James McCloud and encourage the townies not to give up, but I am also implying that the situation may be more dire than it appears. You needed a fire lit under your butts.

Day Ten

Funnily, Diana votes for Peppy, and pevergreen votes for Beskar, who killed him earlier in the game. Day Ten is looking like grudge match central.

1371: Chaotix goes after Beskar pretty hard. It's a big gamble, if he succeeds, another wasted lynch, and Beskar goes down. But if he fails, Beskar is likely to just get trigger-happy and kill Chaotix, revealing that Venomians can turn Androssian. I worry about moves like this......

Let's see how it goes!

1392: It's working though. The Beskar backlash has begun.... Wolf all being alive seems wrong... very wrong. Everyone can sense it. Something has gone wrong.... terribly wrong.

I predicted this coincidence would be too much for people to accept as accidental. No.... here is when it is proposed that Wolf has been working with Andross all along, or that Wolf isn't as helpful as he appears. People have had enough. They want progress... or they want blood. BLOOD!!!!

For whatever reason, pevergreen is counter-accused and lynched. All of Star Wolf, and even Andross, shows up and gets rid of pevergreen instead of Beskar.

As satisfying as I am sure removing the peverthorn from Wolf's hide was, no progress has been made on destroying Andross or his henchmen.

This round was focused mainly on Beskar, and the town has made it clear that he's gotta defeat Andross soon, or he's dead meat. pever was lynched basically to spare Beskar, and not for many other sound reasons.

Night Ten

DIY (Peppy Hare) attacks Diana (Pigma) it fails due to her power.
Beskar (Wolf O'Donnell) Investigates Nightbringer (Venomian)
civplayah (Andrew Oikonny/Andross) Kill Frozen in Ice with Chaotix and Skooma
Chaotix and Skooma kill frozen in Ice with civplayah
TheFlax and Khazaar kill landlubber.

What a cluster of fuddruckers.

Peppy attacks Pigma, but Peppy can't beat Pigma, because Pigma's "Got a better ship!"- Diana loses her one-time anti-vig power.

Beskar investigates Nightbringer, which ends up helping the Androssian team recruit him.

Beskar! Man! You should have killed Chaotix! He was being a giant pain in your buttocks!

I was totally expecting it. Where's the cold, reactionary, swatting-the-mosquito reflex when you REALLY NEED IT???

And it just would have felt.... SO.... satisfying, wouldn't it?

I weep for you, Beskar. It's like letting the mosquito land on your nose, drink your blood, and then fly away. For the love of Dumpster-brand "waste disposal units", JUST SMASH IT!!!

Meanwhile, the Andross team is asleep at the switch, and I have orders from all teams within 24 hours. Their order was to kill Frozen in Ice, so I locked that in.

They protested and asked to kill landlubber, and I allowed this because two members hadn't sent in orders yet, so they had enough spare men to do it. So it wasn't a total loss. But Pinman and Flaxy were, shall we say, livid about it.

OOPSIE!!!

ciplayah wasn't paying attention, so he just signed off on the kill. The idea came from Skooma IIRC, but I got at least two or three confirmations of this order. So the hilarity began, starting with a delayed pevergreen lynch writeup, and ending with egg on Andross' face when he killed a dead guy.

I can't help it. Too funny.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

All kidding aside, even with that faux pas, Andross is poised to pounce on Wolf and Corneria.... it's only a matter of time. Forgot to note: shlin28 and Stuck in Pi are both wogged.

The player list is looking more and more like a graveyard, and the unsuspecting Wolf team is about to get their butts handed to them.

Doomsday is nigh. Nigh, I say.

More to come soon!

**Choxorn** · 08-04-2010, 03:15

Hey, just to point this out, you have God Emperor listed as alive even after Beskar killed him. :p

**wideyedwanderer** · 08-04-2010, 05:33

Lynch Beskar! Lynch Beskar! Wait, what?

I love the commentary ATPG.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-04-2010, 13:16

Originally Posted by Choxorn

Hey, just to point this out, you have God Emperor listed as alive even after Beskar killed him. :p

Thank you. Doing these on the fly, I am bound to make mistakes.

**wideyedwanderer** · 08-05-2010, 01:53

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Thank you. Doing these on the fly, I am bound to make mistakes.

Doing one now, then?

**Double A** · 08-05-2010, 05:37

What, you didn't know he could fly?

**Choxorn** · 08-05-2010, 07:33

Well, I knew he could shoot lasers from his eyes, but I didn't know he could fly.

**Frozen In Ice** · 08-05-2010, 16:41

Thanks for the amazing game ATPG! Looking back I realize I shouldn't have followed the leader as much as I did, but I was glad that I was at least able to take a hit for the team, even if I was already dead.

**TheFlax** · 08-05-2010, 16:54

Originally Posted by Frozen In Ice

Thanks for the amazing game ATPG! Looking back I realize I shouldn't have followed the leader as much as I did, but I was glad that I was at least able to take a hit for the team, even if I was already dead.

It seems some of my colleagues found your corpse very threatening.

**Romanic** · 08-05-2010, 19:59

From WEW on Civ Fanatics:

May I remind everyone that in Star Fox Mafia, Romanichine also suggested we lynch Beefy, who ended up being a pro-town reviver, and, in the words of Askthepizzaguy, was the victim of the most epic fail-wagon in history. So no, let's not trust Romanchine's judgment just because he's innocent and he's dead.

Raaaarrrghh, don't put the blame on me! 21 players voted for Beefy and I was not one of them. I said in the game thread that I approved the lynch, but it was a general consensus of the whole Star Fox team. Beefy lied about being able to revive more than once, which resulted in me having no protection and I ended up dead. Then Beefy admitted he lied.

A lot of players would have done the same thing in our shoes, and it's easy to out the blame on someone to wash your hands when something bad happens. Anyone, including Beefy, could have argued about the lynch, and turned it around, but instead most followed my suggestion without question because it's so much easier this way.

And about it being the most epic-fail wagon, how so? We lynched a townie who had no ability (left). Big deal, he was no better than a vanilla townie.

**Double A** · 08-05-2010, 21:00

Originally Posted by Romanic

From WEW on Civ Fanatics:

Raaaarrrghh, don't put the blame on me! 21 players voted for Beefy and I was not one of them. I said in the game thread that I approved the lynch, but it was a general consensus of the whole Star Fox team. Beefy lied about being able to revive more than once, which resulted in me having no protection and I ended up dead. Then Beefy admitted he lied.

A lot of players would have done the same thing in our shoes, and it's easy to out the blame on someone to wash your hands when something bad happens. Anyone, including Beefy, could have argued about the lynch, and turned it around, but instead most followed my suggestion without question because it's so much easier this way.

And about it being the most epic-fail wagon, how so? We lynched a townie who had no ability (left). Big deal, he was no better than a vanilla townie.

Neither me nor Peppy had died yet, Mr Selfish.

**Romanic** · 08-05-2010, 21:02

Originally Posted by Double A

Neither me nor Peppy had died yet, Mr Selfish.

Hmm, what are you saying? Translation please.

**wideyedwanderer** · 08-05-2010, 21:18

I'm not putting the entire blame on you, but you did agree with the lynch and, being Falco, you were an influential speaker, and had an important role in that lynch. What I was trying to say was that while you make convincing arguments, we should not simply follow the lead of any individual without exploring the argument ourselves.

The part about the most epic fail-wagon came from ATPG. But I agree with it. Beefy would have been able to revive both Slippy and Peppy once each, which could have been huge for the town.

**TheFlax** · 08-05-2010, 21:23

Nah, he would have been killed the very next night though protection. The worst consequence of the Beefy wagon was that it led to ArpeggiateTHIS to reveal himself.

**Double A** · 08-05-2010, 21:23

Originally Posted by Romanic

Hmm, what are you saying? Translation please.

Originally Posted by wideyedwanderer

I'm not putting the entire blame on you, but you did agree with the lynch and, being Falco, you were an influential speaker, and had an important role in that lynch. What I was trying to say was that while you make convincing arguments, we should not simply follow the lead of any individual without exploring the argument ourselves.

The part about the most epic fail-wagon came from ATPG. But I agree with it. Beefy would have been able to revive both Slippy and Peppy once each, which could have been huge for the town.

Thank-you for doing my work for me

**Romanic** · 08-05-2010, 21:23

I missed the part that said Beefy could revive each of us once. Point granted then, Beefy was not a vanilla townie when he was lynched, and he would have been useful.

**Double A** · 08-05-2010, 21:24

Originally Posted by TheFlax

Nah, he would have been killed the very next night though protection. The worst consequence of the Beefy wagon was that it led to ArpeggiateTHIS to reveal himself.

That would mean 1-2 less kills for each revival or if he wasn't lynched.

**TheFlax** · 08-05-2010, 21:26

Originally Posted by Double A

That would mean 1-2 less kills for each revival or if he wasn't lynched.

I don't quite follow, it wouldn't have changed anything in regards to revivals even if he had not been lynched. Beefy was going to die that night if he wasn't lynched and he can't revive if he is dead.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-06-2010, 05:34

LYLAT WARS

ENDGAME COMMENTARY
Part V

Turn by turn commentary

Day Eleven:

1485: Bold as ever, Chaotix goes directly for the throat and challenges Beskar.

Classic Scumtell: "Let's bring Star Wolf down once and for all."

Reason: See Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith and Subotan's usage of the word "we". Chaotix is doing much the same thing, playing on popular anti-Beskar sentiment and using a plural form of "I", in this case, us. Let us bring down Star Wolf? Sure, if that's your priority. I thought wiping out Andross was the priority. But, because Chaotix doesn't constantly use such language (us/we), once in a while is forgivable and easily overlooked.

1488: This is a much more believable line of attack against Beskar. This one does scream "frustrated townie". I like it.

1491: What took you so long, Star Wolf?

1494: Vote: Chaotix, says Nightbringer on his last day as townie. Still fighting the good fight, I see!

1499: Wideyed is off-target, and this is one of the reasons Diana was so interested in killing him. He wasn't proven townie and his voting pattern just wasn't right. But I'll get to that when I get to that.

1502: Anti-Beskar sentiment among the actual cornerians reaches a fever pitch. Probably because he's still lying and omitting key details. May have been helpful to spill the beans by now, but I can't fault Beskar so much because the Star Wolf team was doing well, and he probably wanted to spare them from a lynch-a-thon.

1504: NOOOO!!! Beskar, swat the fly, swat the fly!!! I swear, man, if you were as self-serving and cutthroat as people THOUGHT you were being this game, you'd have nailed Androssians several times over by now.

Let go of your townie shackles... let the hate FLOW through you....

1507: Nightbringer is trying to be helpful, but the votes for General Pepper pretty much seal the deal, an Androssian victory is about to occur.... the alternative, Beskar, isn't much better either at this point. It's too late, if you were going to lynch Beskar it should have happened a while back.

1512: Diana, AbNOOOOOOOOba!!!

1514: Beskar is trying, but under this kind of pressure, he makes reactionary mistakes. To be fair, if people left him alone, he might have been more clear-headed. But if you can't take the heat...

1519: Peppy joins the fray on General Pepper. I sneeze.

1520: Autolycus is forced to reveal he's General Pepper.

Well, Andross knows who to kill first now.

Not good, not good. Maybe now they will lynch a scumbag. But added pressure on Beskar? Will they pull it off?

1521: pevergreen calls for Beskar's head, again. I've got a bad feeling about this.

At this point, Autolycus reveals his full role PM, so does Beskar (kinda), and pressure is put on WEW and Alexander. Then, the decision is made... mass wagon on Alexei.

Tally:

ATPGood: (8) DIY, Nightbringer, Autolycus, Secura, civplayah, Yaseikhaan, Khazaar, Flax
Beskar: (2) Chaotix, WEW,
miotas: Skooma Addict
autolycus: miotas
WEW: CDF
HH: Diana Abnoba

abstain: Beskar

hell_hound: Did not vote.
Psychonaut: did not vote

Sadly, the only one even close to mafia that got voted for, was Beskar. And you need him alive. This round did the townies a favor inasmuch as the venomian got lynched, reducing the number of potential Androssian recruits, but was still not good. Chaotix should have died this round for SURE.

Night Eleven:

....Okay, this ship just got REAL. So much for wiping out General Pepper....

Civplayah kills Beskar and converts Nightbringer
Flax and Khazaar kill Secura
Skooma and Chaotix kill DIY
Beskar kills Miotas
DIY kills Skooma Addict
Nightbringer is converted

Andross declares ALL OUT WAR on Star Wolf, finally putting down Beskar for the count, and removing Secura as well. They also remove the last of Star Fox.

In a single night, Andross reveals that it has the power to wipe out 3 players per night.... they were HIDING THEIR NUMBERS!!!

The effect is devastating! They also convert one of the remaining venomians.... leaving only the Venomian WOGbait, hell_hound to die the very next round.

Now, Andross' team is 5-7, with one of those seven about to get the WOG chop. This is it, due to the massive ability of the Venomian team to murder three times, even WITH the two vigilante powers, the Cornerians AND Star Wolf ALL need to hit perfectly with EVERY SINGLE REMAINING LYNCH AND VIGILANTE KILL. They also cannot even lynch Andross, they don't have time... it takes two lynches to kill him. Andross MUST DIE through a vigilante kill, or the game is automatically lost.

Because Star Wolf has both vig kills now, AND they must hit Andross AND they must hit an Androssian convert TONIGHT, AND they must lynch an Androssian convert TODAY, the game is all but lost. This round is almost a formality.

Death is Yonder pulls off one last, game-saving move, by removing an Androssian convert from the game at the critical moment. The game would already have been over had he not done this.

GAME SAVED: DEATH IS YONDER

Beskar, meanwhile, removed another potential Androssian convert, but it was another innocent Venomian. Chaotix should have died, again....

But it is no longer up to Beskar to win the game. It is now up to CDF and Diana Abnoba.

Peppy never gave up. Trust your instincts....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Andross: Only I have the brains to rule Lylat...

I've got my popcorn ready now, on the edge of my seat. Let's do this thing.

By the way, during this night phase, there was some excellent getting-off-of-your-hindquarters-and-thinking going on. Nicely done.

Day Twelve

1690: A rough start as General Pepper votes for a purely innocent player, WEW. Andross has enough votes to make this a fatal mistake...

1699: Cultured Drizzt Fan votes for Chaotix, AND WE HAVE A WINNA!!!

1705: Wideyedwanderer OMGUS votes General Pepper. Now Andross could conceivably lynch General Pepper and win simply by conversion.

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad!

I'm not usually a praying man, but..... SAVE ME, SUPERMAN!!!

And in the sky, the clouds parted, and the sun began to smile, and shine down upon the broken forces of the Cornerian army. A miracle happens.

1710: Psychonaut joins the correct bandwagon! Out of Autolycus, WEW, and Chaotix, we have Chaotix! He also calls Diana and Nightbringer scum. 2/3 ain't bad.

1716: Diana uses the force, and stretches out with her feelings. The dark side clouds everything, but Chaotix' scum is showing. Has been for a while now...

1721: Hello..... and Bingo was his name-o. Pepper switches to a proper vote, on scum Chaotix. The game is not over yet... votes on Autolycus could save the game for Andross.

1725: And Psychonaut's scum-sniffing powers go into overdrive. Nightbringer is mafia. All of a sudden things look nearly salvage-able. But still remains.... Andross himself.

1726: A thunderclap. Psychonaut realizes Autolycus and WEW are not mafia. The earth is freaking moving under my feet.

1727: BA-BAMMO!!! Wideyedwanderer's eyes are open! He switches off of General Pepper and wipes the floor with the mafia!

I sit back in my chair, with jawdrop.

1735: With Yaseikhaan's vote, Chaotix's fate is pretty well sealed. Nicely, nicely done.

1736: Scummy distancing tactic by TheFlax.

After Chaotix switches to Auto, and civplayah makes a perfunctory vote on Chaotix, the round ends... chaotix is lynched. But Hell Hound is WOGGED, making the game almost a certain loss for the town!

Now...... the REAL GAME BEGINS.

Night Twelve.

1750: Psychonaut goes hunting for Andross, and his scum sensors are delightful. His vote analysis leads him to conclude one of Diana, Nightbringer, or civplayah is Andross.

Diana knows that Diana is not Andross.
Diana also knows that Nightbringer is not Andross, as he was scanned Venomian.
That leaves only civplayah as Andross. Diana has the power to kill civplayah.

If Diana was paying attention to this post, her choice would have been very clear, but I saw her that night, and the decision was MUCH more of a struggle. I don't blame her.

1752: civplayah makes the woeful decision to reveal now. That.... really.... makes him look very suspicious to many, many people.

1757: Psychonaut is all over him. Psychonaut wants answers. Psychonaut wants blood.

And now, without further ado, Diana Abnoba's reasoning for killing civplayah, and urging CDF to kill TheFlax.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

So, Diana Abnoba had three main suspects for Andross.

Autolycus- General Pepper claim looked fishy. Was never scanned.
wideyedwanderer- Claiming Cornerian is easy, voting pattern looked very bad, and he was only scanned as non-neutral, not innocent.
civplayah- It seemed unlikely at first. But if there was a Wolf infiltrator, it had to be Civplayah. Was never scanned. Was never attacked. Was not voted for by mafia. Strange claimed power. Strange claimed personal goal. Andrew was the nephew of Andross himself.

However, Diana Abnoba reasoned:

If civplayah has a personal goal to eliminate General Pepper, and he's really Andrew, then General Pepper exists in the game. Either that, or civplayah and Auto are covering for each other and BOTH have cover roles.

If Autolycus were guilty/Andross, then civplayah's personal goal to eliminate General Pepper could never be completed. I was screwing over my own player. Diana knows better than that. So they were either both guilty, or only civplayah was guilty, or they were both innocent. It could not be the case that Auto was guilty and civplayah was not.

Voting pattern analysis indicated that several guilty parties wanted Autolycus to die.

Voting pattern analysis indicated that several guilty parties wanted Wideyedwanderer to die very early on in the game. He nearly got lynched very early on. Would known guilty parties vote for Andross and nearly kill him that early?

civplayah's guilt would explain why Star Wolf never got attacked until the late game.

civplayah's guilt would indicate why Star Wolf never attacked the same person that Andross (or his cronies) did.

civplayah's guilt would explain his unusual behavior (late reveal for no reason) his strange personal goal, and his strange anti-investigation power.

Diana also reasoned that it only one of the three was Andross, and Venomian converts could become Androssians, then of the three, one was Andross, and two were innocent.

If two were innocent, that meant that only the civplayah was guilty/auto was innocent/WEW was innocent theory works, or civplayah was innocent/auto was innocent/WEW was guilty theory works.

That meant that autolycus was innocent, and WEW or civplayah was guilty.

Of the two, more mafia voted against wideyedwanderer, and never voted for civplayah.

Diana had originally called for wideyedwanderer and Autolycus to be vigilante killed. She switched from Autolycus to civplayah halfway through the night after some serious analysis and working it out.

Then she reasoned that if only one of the three were guilty, given the number of mafia remaining, an Androssian convert also had to go.

So, she picked from her suspected Androssian convert list:

NOT ANDROSS, POSSIBLE CONVERT:

27. Nightbringer- Venomian? (due to Beskar's scans)
28. TheFlax- Venomian? (due to Beskar's scans)
36. Khazaar- Venomian? (due to Beskar's scans)

TheFlax had been scanned very early by Beskar, and the pattern was, all scanned Venomians seemed to have gotten converted. Khazaar was the next most suspect. She figured that Nightbringer was either recently converted, or would be converted soon. So the decision was made to go after Khazaar.... then she switched again to TheFlax.

She asked CDF to attack TheFlax, almost certain he was guilty. Then she made the gut-wrenching decision to attack civplayah. The rest is history.

GAME SAVED: DIANA ABNOBA

Night Twelve:

TheFlax and Khazaar (and nightbringer) kills Cultured Drizzt Fan.
Cultured Drizzt Fan kills TheFlax.
civplayah kills Diana Abnoba.
Diana Abnoba kills civplayah.
No conversion possible.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The sledgehammer blow knocks the Androssian square in the jaw, and they are sent reeling. Still, all townies must vote correctly for there to be a decisive victory. The game isn't over, but very shortly it will be. With no more conversions and only a single murder, mafia has to play perfectly to win now.... so does the town.

Day thirteen:

1769: Nightbringer may be new at this, but I am very impressed by his instincts. He's almost convincing ME he's innocent.

The game is a forced win for the town, once again, if they vote correctly. He's just gotta hope for a mistake.

1770: Diana's now-proven innocence comes in handy as she makes the call for Khazaar's blood.

1772: Star Fox's decision to give their vig kill to Diana also saves the game from epic defeat. Good choice.

1773: Auto has the right idea, but you'll need unity to pull this off. Go for the low-hanging fruit, Khazaar.

1775: CDF points out that Nightbringer cannot be Gorgon, which is a valid point and good reason for all remaining townies to stand united against Gorgon. There are very few suspects for Gorgon remaining.

1777: Auto switches to Khazaar.

1780: WEW agrees on Khazaar.

1793: Yaseikhaan agrees on Khazaar.

1794: Psychonaut's scumdar goes haywire, and he calls for General Pepper's head! OH NO!!!!

1795: Yaseikhaan follows suit.....

The game is now in serious Jeopardy!

1799-1801: Romanic steps in to try to right some wrongs. Way to stay vigilant, Falco!

1802-1803: Choxorn steps in to also call for Khazaar or Nightbringer's head. Excellent eye, Fox!

1804-1805: Secura steps in and agrees on Khazaar and Nightbringer.

1807: Death is yonder steps in and calls for Khaan to change his vote!

The dead pro-town forces have decided. They are all calling out for justice, and Khaan wavers.

1808: Khaan changes his vote back to Khazaar.

1812: Psycho reluctantly agrees to go along with this.

1822: Romanic is all over Nightbringer for not taking a clear position. Correct, this is scummy of him. Good eye!

1826: Secura (Leon) and Romanic (Falco), blood enemies, agree on who needs to die. The stars have aligned against Andross.

1835: A while later, Khazaar finally takes a position against Autolycus.

1836: Immediately triggering Psychonaut's bull spit meter. The last holdout turns against Khazaar, and for Autolycus, the same dude he just called for death.

1837: Another late position taken by Nightbringer.... trying to look decent. Not a bad attempt, but too little too late. (My advice) He should have been all over Khazaar from the beginning, that would have confused people, especially coming from a newcomer. No one expects that from a new player.

1838: Death is yonder is all over this fakey-ness. He's waiting for Psychonaut to decide, and then following along, instead of boldly deciding. Often a mafia strategy when it is crunch time.

Night Thirteen:

Nightbringer has little choice in the matter.... he leaves Auto alive one more time in the hopes that his unknown for certain status will persuade people not to kill him.

Killing Auto just leaves Psycho (scanned) and Yasei (scanned) and wideyed (was scanned as non-neutral). So he takes out a scanned Cornerian.... best he can do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Day Fourteen

1853: The only correct move, says Auto.

1854: Psychonaut agrees.

1855: Here, the only winning move is if WEW agrees with Nightbringer about Autolycus. There are no other options for Nightbringer, but he's still fighting.

Admirable.

1861: A slightly wavering Yaseikhaan says:

Good grief. Half of me still feels like autocylus is guilty, the role claim feels real off. But nightbringer's whole post reeked of guilty mafia trying to turn the lynch... I'd say lynch nightbringer. Thread behavior first and foremost, as Pizza said a long time ago, on a page far, far away. Also, going back and reading his earlier posts, especially around the 21st/22nd, he seemed to like reminding people he was "scanned venomian", even though he wasn't under any pressure.

I am honored, Khaan, to be cited in your reasoning against true scum.

Peppy Hare: Your skills have improved, ~~Fox~~ Khaan.

I hope you won't poo-poo your own townie skills anymore.

1864: Wideyedwanderer makes the correct decision, and doesn't fall for it, sealing the game as a townie victory. Congratulations, town.... incredible performance in the final rounds.

1871: The real ending. Enjoy.

Be sure to sign up for my NEXT game.... Star Wars: Fall of the Order. An approved sequel to Sigurd's Revenge of the Sith.

**autolycus** · 08-06-2010, 13:30

Thanks to Atpg for a great game and great commentary. This was my first game as a purely passive power role. I must say, it's an interesting experience, because I knew no more than a regular townie, but had to place a higher value on my own life and couldn't readily prove my identity.

**civplayah** · 08-06-2010, 15:48

The reason for my apparently suspicious reveal is that I was going on vacation, there were no replacement players left, and I wouldn't have been able to say anything if I didn't reveal.

**Renata** · 08-06-2010, 16:16

Originally Posted by autolycus

Thanks to Atpg for a great game and great commentary. This was my first game as a purely passive power role. I must say, it's an interesting experience, because I knew no more than a regular townie, but had to place a higher value on my own life and couldn't readily prove my identity.

If I'd gotten that role I'd have shot myself. :) Good job.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-06-2010, 20:25

Originally Posted by civplayah

The reason for my apparently suspicious reveal is that I was going on vacation, there were no replacement players left, and I wouldn't have been able to say anything if I didn't reveal.

Yep; there are often really good reasons to do things. In this case, you probably felt compelled to say something.

The timing was just off, legitimate reasons or not; it got people thinking you were both nervous, but also not concerned with being targetted by Andross. You didn't personally make many obvious mistakes, and even that much wasn't enough to turn the tide against you solely. It was good detective work that did that.

A stunning and near-victorious run; nothing to be ashamed of here.

**TheFlax** · 08-06-2010, 20:28

Thanks for the game ATPG and for the commentary. One of the most fun I've played.

**landlubber** · 08-07-2010, 00:48

The commentary was so good I feel a bit sad that it's over.

Thread: Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

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