Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

[johnhughthom]

So Beskie did

one of the best scumdars in the gameroom

register a false positive or have you been

easily fooled by classic scum tactics.

?

[Chaotix]

Beskar is using BS logic here.

He wants us to forget that Team Star Wolf has been killing townies since night one. Last night's write-up with the Zapper is proof enough, if you think the other two are vague. The Zapper is Panther's signature weapon.

[Beskar]

Beskar is using BS logic here.

He wants us to forget that Team Star Wolf has been killing townies since night one. Last night's write-up with the Zapper is proof enough, if you think the other two are vague. The Zapper is Panther's signature weapon.

Count Dooku shakes his head at you in disappointment. You never learnt from your mistake in that game.

Pizza has written up that Wolf is against the Big Bad. Also in the game, Starfox Command, Fox and Wolf are working together against a common foe. In all plausability, Wolf would be just like the vemons, which is, against the big bad in a rubicon styled set-up. There is no "BS" at all from my end.

[Pinman]

Count Dooku shakes his head at you in disappointment. You never learnt from your mistake in that game.

Pizza has written up that Wolf is against the Big Bad. Also in the game, Starfox Command, Fox and Wolf are working together against a common foe. In all plausability, Wolf would be just like the vemons, which is, against the big bad in a rubicon styled set-up. There is no "BS" at all from my end.

I am extremely pleased that you are no longer even bothering to deny that you are Star Wolf.

[Beskar]

I am extremely pleased that you are no longer even bothering to deny that you are Star Wolf.

Nice try.

You have to do better than trying to suggest that me in a post correcting some one according to what the Host posted with reference to a previous game where they accused a pro-town of being a mafia and was responsible for their death.

[Pinman]

Alright. So to clarify:

1. You vehemently deny being Star Wolf.

2. However, you are taking great pains to assure the town that were you Star Wolf, although you absolutely definitively are not, it would be ok. Your just another townie!

Is that scumdar of yours picking anything up? At the very least, it should be noting the obvious inconsistancy.

[pevergreen]

I'm watching you Beefy. You're acting scared.

Vote: Beskar

Normal logic. Either Beskar is Wolf, and we find out by lynching, or hes not and we then get Pinman.

[Beskar]

Alright. So to clarify...

So to clarify:

1. You vehemently deny being mafia.

2. You claim you are just a normal Cornerian who apparently has some sort of uber investigator ability which people with roles don't have. You apparently find what you describe as a mafia, and then for 3 rounds, do not disclose this to anyone, except when you was about to die and on your death bed, who just happened to be accusing the person who picked up on your scumtells.

3. Even though this reveal didn't work as planned, you tried to stratch up a deal, where you apparently get investigated, however, there is no incidications there are actually any investigators in the game, and even if there were, they probably wouldn't even actually clarify what you are or not, since they cannot reveal privately anyway.

4. ??

5. Keep restating your theory, in order to hope you say it enough times, people might actually get convinced, due to the volume amount.


I could easily do this all day. In short - quit trying to squirm about.

[Double A]

It's not unlikely though that this is a 3-way battle, unless "something" happens.

[TheFlax]

Beskar is using BS logic here.

He wants us to forget that Team Star Wolf has been killing townies since night one. Last night's write-up with the Zapper is proof enough, if you think the other two are vague. The Zapper is Panther's signature weapon.

Removed: Write-up clues. No puzzles or hints in these. (Focus should be on standard mafia solving techniques)

Lets think about this from a mafia game perspective, without the fluff. There's a lot of incertitudes here and I'd rather wait a bit before commiting to lynch what could be a power role. That's what I'm still maintaining that lynching an inactive/lurker is the best solution at this time. This is a point in the game where we have time to think, lets not waste it.

[Romanic]

Originally Posted by Rules
Removed: Write-up clues. No puzzles or hints in these. (Focus should be on standard mafia solving techniques)

There has to be some clues in the writeups, no matter what the above says.

For example, we know from the writeup that the Big Bad killed each day so far (The Big Bad is represented by the blue vortex picture). That's a clue right there.

We also know that someone else, flying a ship has killed on day 1 and day 3, that's another clue. It's a ship (it's not Santa Claus with his reindeer sleigh!).

Then when Chaotix is killed by this ship, and it says ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP, it could be another clue.


(reference: http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Panther)

Panther Caroso is a member of Star Wolf. He becomes infatuated with Krystal at the Sargasso Region, and when Fox fires her in Star Fox Command, Krystal turns to Panther and the rest of Star Wolf.

[...]

Panther pilots the Black Rose, which looks somewhat like the Wolfen II seen in Star Fox 64. It is armed with the Zapper, a powerful but slow-firing laser.

I'm with Chaotix here, the Zapper, as he said, is Panther Caroso's signature weapon and Panther is with the Star Wolf team. They likely killed 2 of us, and I'm hearing talk about how could Star Wolf possibly be pro-town. I suggest that you read the Wiki like I did, or at least listen to Chaotix, he knows about this stuff.

The Star Wolf team is very possibly our second enemy.

******

On the other matter, Beskar vs Pinman, I don't like how people are ready to wash their hands and lynch an inactive (Stuck in Pi) instead of picking a side. And I don't like how TheFlax is going out of his way to protect Beskar, convince people and make shady deals to accomplish all this, just for the possibility that Star Wolf is pro-town (when he's likely not).

[johnhughthom]

that's another clue. It's a ship

Doesn't everybody have a ship?

[Double A]

No, we all have Landmasters.

Oh wait this isn't Brawl...

[miotas]

According to some background information that ATPG sent me to help me understand the game, Star Wolf teamed up with Star Fox to destroy some evil force known as the Aparoids.

With the help of Wolf O'Donnell, who is able to swallow his pride and work with Star Fox for the sake of the Lylat System, and the rest of the Star Wolf team, Corneria City is rescued from total destruction

This seems like a similar situation, so it would be foolish to potentially kill such a powerful Anti-Big-Bad force. So I say we lynch Pinman, either he's telling the truth and we have identified one of our most powerful resources, or he's lying and we kill a mafia.

[miotas]

Vote: Pinman

[Romanic]

Doesn't everybody have a ship?

Do we? How do you know? The Big Bad is on the other side of a vortex, who knows what's behind. And I could see some of us in a star base instead of a ship.

Anyway, that's not my point. We know that this killer is not the Big Bad because it's a ship (and not a vortex).

[TheFlax]

There has to be some clues in the writeups, no matter what the above says.

For example, we know from the writeup that the Big Bad killed each day so far (The Big Bad is represented by the blue vortex picture). That's a clue right there.

We also know that someone else, flying a ship has killed on day 1 and day 3, that's another clue. It's a ship (it's not Santa Claus with his reindeer sleigh!).

Oh please, don't be obtuse. Of course the number of kills is useful information and of course the big bad has one kill per night, that's the kind of information you'd get in any game. I'd even agree that kills using the same method are most likely done by the same person/group.

Then when Chaotix is killed by this ship, and it says ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP, it could be another clue.

(reference: http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Panther)
I'm with Chaotix here, the Zapper, as he said, is Panther Caroso's signature weapon and Panther is with the Star Wolf team. They likely killed 2 of us, and I'm hearing talk about how could Star Wolf possibly be pro-town. I suggest that you read the Wiki like I did, or at least listen to Chaotix, he knows about this stuff.

The Star Wolf team is very possibly our second enemy.

This is were it goes too far, that's specifically the kind of clue ATPG would add in other games, but he said he'd refrain in this one. ATPG wanted us to relie on standard mafia hunting techniques, that mostly mean analyzing thread behavior. It could very well be that ATPG is including false positives for all we know. There was also the fact ATPG made this post saying we can avoid reading the writeups and not miss something.

What you're ignoring with many others is that this is a Rubicon type setup, where both cornerians and venomians have mirror power roles on their side. Now, like in that game we can fight against each other or we can kill the bad guys.

On the other matter, Beskar vs Pinman, I don't like how people are ready to wash their hands and lynch an inactive (Stuck in Pi) instead of picking a side. And I don't like how TheFlax is going out of his way to protect Beskar, convince people and make shady deals to accomplish all this, just for the possibility that Star Wolf is pro-town (when he's likely not).

Explain to me why do we need to pick a side in the Beskar v. Pinman debate now? How can you be sure lynching even one of them is a good choice? Also, I'm really disliking the way you're painting me here. "TheFlax is going out of his way to protect Beskar." That's not exactly true, now is it? I'm also going out of my way to try to avoid Pinman getting lynched also. As the insitgator of the bandwagon against him, if I really wanted only Beskar to live, I could have continued leaning on Pinman, but I think that's a bad idea. As for the likelyness of Starwolf being town, from what I understand of the setup, its very possible, though I can't say I'm sure.

[Khazaar]

Vote: ArpeggiateTHIS

[Beskar]

Vote: ArpeggiateTHIS

I would like to point out the most nonsensical vote in this entire round.

FoS: Khazaar

[Secura]

What you're ignoring with many others is that this is a Rubicon type setup, where both cornerians and venomians have mirror power roles on their side. Now, like in that game we can fight against each other or we can kill the bad guys.

You're not the only person that's stated this, and it seems increasingly plausible each time I see it; I see no sense in lynching a scanner (particularly one who has had claims verified), and no sense in lynching Beskar (if he is Wolf) when there's a possibility he could be of use against the Big Bad.

vote: abstain

There's something that's been niggling at me as I read over the last few pages though; why does a standard Cornerian have a ship-scanning ability?

You see, I would guess that each and every player has a ship of some kind, be it Arwing, Wolfen, Cornerian, Venomian or whatever... everyone except the Big Bad, at least, who we assume to be this vortex thing, so it's possible that a player who turns up no results from a ship scanner is the Big Bad; such an ability might be the only means to find said adversary, so why does a Cornerian have those means and not Fox, Falco or others?

[Pinman]

Let us examine the situation:

1. I am claiming to have a scan ability, and have provided ample evidence of this ability. It should be fairly obvious to all concerned that Beskar is in fact Star Wolf. To top that off, I have also correctly told TheFlax his role (Although, of course, this could be guessed).

Anybody doubting the scan ability is simply paranoid.

2. I have claimed to be a simple Cornerian - which seems to be implausable. I have not, because there is no way too during this phase, provided any evidence to support this claim. However, it is a simple matter of waiting till the night phase to check this out.

In the meantime, given the (very minimal) uncertainty surrounding the alllignment of Star Wolf, we can wait and lynch an inactive.

I can't understand the uncertainty here.

[Romanic]

What you're ignoring with many others is that this is a Rubicon type setup, where both cornerians and venomians have mirror power roles on their side. Now, like in that game we can fight against each other or we can kill the bad guys.

I haven't looked at Rubicon until now, and from what I gathered there was two factions, Ceasarians and Pompeians, fighting against each other for victory, without any bad guys around. This one here is different, with the Big Bad around.

I can imagine a setup pitting Star Fox vs Star Wolf, with the Venomians stuck in the middle, with a possibility to pick either side. It is now obvious to me why you are strongly suggesting... er what you are suggesting. Let's drop this debate, and we'll see how things develop, but Cornerians shouldn't dismiss the possibility that Star Wolf is our enemy.

Explain to me why do we need to pick a side in the Beskar v. Pinman debate now?

Procrastination is rarely good, and tomorrow may bring something new that will require out attention. Resolving this today is best, otherwise the same questions will resurface tomorrow.

How can you be sure lynching even one of them is a good choice?

I'm not. How can you be sure that keeping both alive is a good choice?

Also, I'm really disliking the way you're painting me here.

I'm painting you the way I see it. You appear to be sticking your nose somewhere you don't belong. I would rather see Beskar and Pinman fight each other than having a diplomat coming out of nowhere to resolve delay the matter. How can we be sure of anything if you work the arguments and the solution with them?

[Romanic]

Enjoy this unofficial tally:

7 Pinman (ArpTHIS, autolycus, Double A, God Emperor, JHT, miotas, WEW)
5 Stuck in Pi (Beefy, Beskar, DiY, Pinman, Flax)
4 Beskar (landlubber,pevergreen, Stuck in Pi, Yaropolk)
1 ArpegiateTHIS (Khazaar)
1 wideyedwanderer (Nightbringer)
*****
4 abstrain (CDF, Diana, Secura, Seon)
*****
14 Not voting

[Skooma Addict]

I haven't looked at Rubicon until now, and from what I gathered there was two factions, Ceasarians and Pompeians, fighting against each other for victory, without any bad guys around. This one here is different, with the Big Bad around.



I can imagine a setup pitting Star Fox vs Star Wolf, with the Venomians stuck in the middle, with a possibility to pick either side. It is now obvious to me why you are strongly suggesting... er what you are suggesting. Let's drop this debate, and we'll see how things develop, but Cornerians shouldn't dismiss the possibility that Star Wolf is our enemy.









Procrastination is rarely good, and tomorrow may bring something new that will require out attention. Resolving this today is best, otherwise the same questions will resurface tomorrow.







I'm not. How can you be sure that keeping both alive is a good choice?







I'm painting you the way I see it. You appear to be sticking your nose somewhere you don't belong. I would rather see Beskar and Pinman fight each other than having a diplomat coming out of nowhere to resolve delay the matter. How can we be sure of anything if you work the arguments and the solution with them?

Procrastination can be a good thing, particularly with collecting evidence to back a claim. If you're unsure about someone it's not a bad idea to allow them to make a mistake on their own, or possibly prove their innocence. I have sent a few innocent players home early due to premature action, purely ignorance on my part. I would like to avoid that here if possible. Keeping them both alive for now, I believe, is a better decision then lynching either one. The situation is odd to say the least. Pinman claims to be a normal cornie town with scanning abilities and that besker is star wolf, which doesn't really mean too much since we don't have supporting evidence that star wolf is pro-mafia this game. On the other hand, beskar is cunningly dodging the question with redirects. The truth will be made known in due time. We should be focusing on stopping who is actually killing us, and what paths to take to get to that end. The info thread states that our winning condition is to eliminate the big bad along with other hostile forces. Nights 1 and 3 there were two kills when night 2 had only one. I think it's likely there's another faction attacking us, possibly even misguided vig kills, or perhaps an aggressive neutral if such a thing exists. Though to a degree, I do agree with your perspective on private arrangements. I feel that discussions done privately are more detrimental then helpful due to the fact that you no longer have the resources of every town player being able to analyze and dissect the subtleties of the conversation. Right now, I think we are at a stand still. You want action instead of stagnation and normally that would work for the towns benefit in the end, but I do not feel strongly that acting on either candidate will pay off just yet. I would like more time and info. I think right now we can still afford to bide our time. Vote: Abstain Only to possibly prevent the two proposed power roles in question from being lynched and I would ask those who have not voted yet to do so before it is too late. We need the efforts and opinions of everyone.